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manix1979

Helix Firmware 2.80

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I'm glad that line6 still develop new functions and I understand this takes time for the different pieces of hardware and software. Thanks for your work!

... I have taken my chill pill ;)

But I can understand why some people get impatient. The update offers some interesting new features and it was announce for spring 2019.

Now we have summer and we have not received any new information yet. There should be time for a little message (..."we have some problems and need until the end of july" e.g.)

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1 hour ago, datacommando said:

 

I would suggest that maybe you need to calm down. Line 6 haven’t missed the release “date” as a specific date was never given. The  update was slated for Spring 2019 which was probably not the best way to advertise this thing, but spring technically passed only a week ago. Cut these guys some slack will ya! They are doing their level best to bring into line 5 different pieces of hardware and one software plug-in. I don’t think that’s been as easy as an outside casual observer may have thought.

 

In the meantime, take a chill pill, relax, sit back and enjoy a clip from a great eighties movie - and WAIT!

 

 

 

That‘s right, an exact date was never given but a period of time. This period allready passed and still not much info about the delay. It‘s known that they work hard enough to release it but if you find time to post in social media about the new features and how great it is, then should be a small amount of time to post as well a small status update. I don’t know the internal rules or the internal communication. Maybe there sits the „problem“. There are surely users who refresh the page every 5 seconds. My constructive criticism is just to change the communication politics. That‘s all. 

No one should feel personally attacked. ;-)

Diffrent users, diffrent people, diffrent opinions. I‘m not used to it to see how the communication to the world outside L6 is.

Maybe that‘s the „problem“?

 

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1 hour ago, manix1979 said:

 

There are surely users who refresh the page every 5 seconds. My constructive criticism is just to change the communication politics. That‘s all. 

No one should feel personally attacked. ;-)

Diffrent users, diffrent people, diffrent opinions. 

 

 

My comments are not intended as a personal attack, it’s just me saying that you seem particularly agitated about this delay when there is nothing you, or I, can do to change the current situation. If anyone from Line 6 told you what the cause of the delay was you would not be able to change that, so what is the point.

 

If Eric (DI) drops in here and leaves a few teaser clues about the new content, that exactly what it is - a teaser to keep folks happy while the coders get one with the serious stuff. Let them do the job and get it finished.

 

As you appear to be a user who refreshes the page every 5 seconds, then you should go to this thread and click on the follow button at the top right hand side. When you “follow” that article you can have it send you an email when anything changes. The notice of the latest firmware release will trigger the email to you.

 

EDIT:

For many years my late father worked as a prototype engineer. If anyone asked how long it would take him to make a particular item, his reply was “ how would I know that, I have never made one of these before.”

 

Just something to consider!

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1 hour ago, manix1979 said:

My constructive criticism is just to change the communication politics. That‘s all. 

I guess L6 fanboys would justify and defence anything L6 does and abadon to do. 

 

2 minutes ago, datacommando said:

When you “follow” that article you can have it send you an email when anything changes.

Yes. Something has changed! The spring on the northern hemisphere has ended so that thread looks ridicolous not updated.

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1 hour ago, datacommando said:

As you appear to be a user who refreshes the page every 5 seconds, then you should go to this thread and click on the follow button at the top right hand side. When you “follow” that article you can have it send you an email when anything changes. The notice of the latest firmware release will trigger the email to you.

 

 

When did I say that? ;-) I know how it works. You just did not understand my message. ;-)

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giphy.gif

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Now this is more like it! I was starting to think the Crankypants Festival wouldn't get off the ground this year...Lmfao.... rave on!

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Guys, this is it, PHOTO EVIDENCE.  The internet never lies!

ZomboMeme 28062019084513.jpg

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17 minutes ago, robertgoddard said:

Guys, this is it, PHOTO EVIDENCE.  The internet never lies!

ZomboMeme 28062019084513.jpg

not funny, stop publishing fake news, everybody sees that this is a screenfake

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10 minutes ago, JuRo1971 said:

not funny, stop publishing fake news, everybody sees that this is a screenfake

Wow, sarcasm isn't part of your repertoire?  It's obviously a joke, a poorly done photo edit that is clearly not intended to mislead.  

 

If it makes you feel better, I'll say sorry but not mean it.

 

"Sorry"

 

 

 

Edit: 

Just to be clear, I'm not a malicious troll, I'm just having fun with this as it helps pass the wait for the update.  I'm a serious user and can't wait to try out the Revv model coming with the update.  

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26 minutes ago, robertgoddard said:

Guys, this is it, PHOTO EVIDENCE.  The internet never lies!

ZomboMeme 28062019084513.jpg

 

Yeah, but I think 2.8 has a virus!!!

 

IMG-1819.jpg

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Too bad L6 didn't split this update up. 

I'm itching to use the new amps, King of Tone and Zen Drive. 

I can wait for the new software functionality. 

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I would have to agree with those who seem to be a bit upset. Everyone is different and that’s cool. I love my Line6 gear and have for years but that does not mean they get a pass all the time. The bottom line is they missed the release date (Spring 2019). I think what frustrates some of us including me is we have heard all the great things about this update, how the new amps sound, how the new OD,s sound and how all the new features work. So if that is true what seems to be the issue? Are they having issues implementing some of the more complex features, is it something that may take weeks to get right, just some info would be great. People can say I am impatient or I complain, fine maybe I do but this is a forum and we all have a right to voice our opinions in a proper fashion. Yeah I am very excited about what 2.8 will bring and in the end it will be awesome I am sure of that. 

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12 minutes ago, ECmaj7 said:

Too bad L6 didn't split this update up. 

I'm itching to use the new amps, King of Tone and Zen Drive. 

I can wait for the new software functionality. 

 

I am in the same boat as you are, I have a feeling that is what is holding up the release, some of the new software functionality.

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1 hour ago, robertgoddard said:

Wow, sarcasm isn't part of your repertoire?  It's obviously a joke, a poorly done photo edit that is clearly not intended to mislead.  

 

If it makes you feel better, I'll say sorry but not mean it.

 

"Sorry"

 

 

 

Edit: 

Just to be clear, I'm not a malicious troll, I'm just having fun with this as it helps pass the wait for the update.  I'm a serious user and can't wait to try out the Revv model coming with the update.  

 

:-) no it is,

 

but the waiting, the bad line 6 marketing and information policy are so frustrating

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5 minutes ago, JuRo1971 said:

 

:-) no it is,

 

but the waiting, the bad line 6 marketing and information policy are so frustrating

 

How dare they tell people what's coming!

 

In reality, there really hasn't been any marketing surrounding the 2.8 update. It was announced at Helix user appreciation event hosted by Line 6 at NAMM, so I suppose that's marketing adjacent. But other than the sticky on this forum, I don't believe you'll see any other mention of the 2.8 update on the site. There haven't been any press releases or advertising around it. It's been low key from the perspective of Line 6 pushing it. It has been users who have been posting about it...

 

But it will be ready when it's ready, and that will be soon. Posting and complaining about is certainly going to help a developer code any faster.

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57 minutes ago, lefttygtr said:

 

I am in the same boat as you are, I have a feeling that is what is holding up the release, some of the new software functionality.

Yeah - me too. I think software development is probably the reason this software release isn't ready.... ;-)

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1 hour ago, ECmaj7 said:

Too bad L6 didn't split this update up. 

I'm itching to use the new amps, King of Tone and Zen Drive. 

I can wait for the new software functionality. 

The KoT and ZenDrive were the big draw for me too, and I am very excited for them, but honestly the recent chatter about the DAW control functionality has me REALLY excited. My computer (a 10 year old iMac) generates a ton of EM noise, so when I am recording I have to be a few feet away and facing 90 degrees off to avoid it.  I generally require about 8000 takes to get something down, so thats a lot of hit-the record-button-run-to-my-spot-start-playing-screw-up-go-back-stop-delete-return-to-zero-repeat cycles. The ability to stop/delete/return-to-zero/start from Helix is a potential game changer for me. I have some questions about how the functionality is accessed, as I have most of my footswitches already assigned, but I'm sure I can find a way to accommodate it.

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3 minutes ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

I have some questions about how the functionality is accessed, as I have most of my footswitches already assigned, but I'm sure I can find a way to accommodate it. 

 

It will be in the Command Center. You can assign those functions to footswitches in Stomp Mode, or you can set them up as Instant Commands that are sent out with preset and/or snapshot changes.

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21 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

It will be in the Command Center. You can assign those functions to footswitches in Stomp Mode, or you can set them up as Instant Commands that are sent out with preset and/or snapshot changes.

Thanks Phil.

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Sadly, the Command Center is not available in the Stomp. And I don't think its getting added via 2.8, either. Huge Bummer.

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I may be way off here, but when I read “spring 2019” as the “release date” (and I put that in quotes because it isn’t really a date), I look at it as more of a marker that they are aiming for.   Considering they announced this in January, and then used a 3 month window as the “date”, that tells me they needed a whole bunch of buffer time.  So I’m not overly surprised that they missed the “date”.  That language indicates that it was, at best, a guess at how much work was left to do.  Further, if you want to call “Spring 2019” a “date”, then as long as they get it out sometime in “Summer 2019” they’ve only missed the target by one “day”.  I’m not a Line 6 fan boy (although I do love my Helix) and I make no critcisms to those among us who appear to be more anxious for the release than others.  It’s just a comment on how I interpret the language that was used.   You could go ahead and call them reckless for even throwing a timeframe out there but you know that would have only changed flavour of this thread ever so slightly.  And at the end of the day, they are giving us something for free and apparently working very hard to continue to improve this product line.  That alone should be enough encouragement.

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48 minutes ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

I generally require about 8000 takes to get something down, so thats a lot of hit-the record-button-run-to-my-spot-start-playing-screw-up-go-back-stop-delete-return-to-zero-repeat cycles.

 

Me too... what DAW are you using? Most of them should allow you to loop the part you're recording, and stack an essentially infinite number of takes. Do a handful, then listen back and see which one you want to keep... it'll save you all the running back and forth.

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2 hours ago, lefttygtr said:

I am in the same boat as you are, I have a feeling that is what is holding up the release, some of the new software functionality.

It's mainly three things:

  • Helix Core—Mountains of code had to be replaced in Power Trio (Helix Floor, Rack, and LT) to bring them into parity with Helix Native, HX Effects, and HX Stomp. Some sections had to be coded from scratch. Although the code itself was all but finished at NAMM, I'm guessing close to a thousand bugs have been found since, some of which have taken a day or more to track down and find
  • L6 LINK with Powercab Plus—Both Helix and Powercab Plus need to be updated at once, and there are major dependencies between the two
  • HID Controller Conflicts—After 2.80, your Mac/PC will literally recognize Helix Floor/Rack/LT and HX Effects as a QWERTY keyboard, and driver conflicts surfaced. In fact, during the update process, your computer will ask "Huh? What is this thing?!" The update notes tell you to ignore this warning and close the dialog

So why didn't we just release the models as 2.75 and release the features as 2.80 later? Two reasons:

  • Releasing and then ramping up for another release slows things down considerably
  • We're not your monkeys

Settle down, Beavis.

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7 minutes ago, Digital_Igloo said:

We're not your monkeys

 

If, theoretically, the devs were monkeys, they probably look about like this by now...

giphy.gif

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Thanks for the update DI. 

 

Hopefully the thread starter will be happy now because he will think his constructive criticism has changed the communication politics. Whatever that is?

 

Whose monkeys are these?

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Just now, ECmaj7 said:

That’s uncalled for...

 

No, it's not!

 

18 minutes ago, Digital_Igloo said:

So why didn't we just release the models as 2.75 and release the features as 2.80 later? Two reasons:

  • Releasing and then ramping up for another release slows things down considerably
  • We're not your monkeys

Settle down, Beavis.

 

BRAVO! HEAR! HEAR!

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18 minutes ago, Digital_Igloo said:

So why didn't we just release the models as 2.75 and release the features as 2.80 later? Two reasons:

  • Releasing and then ramping up for another release slows things down considerably
  • We're not your monkeys

Settle down, Beavis.

The first reason was sufficient. 

Second reason uncalled for...

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4 minutes ago, ECmaj7 said:

The first reason was sufficient. 

Second reason uncalled for...

Not pointed at you specifically. More a preemptive strike against those who will inevitably cry "But I don't HAVE a Powercab Plus and don't CARE about QWERTY hotkeys! Why do l have to wait?!"

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To @phil_m @Digital_Igloo and all officials and insiders in here:

No, you’re not anyones monkeys. At least I hope so. But as of now, you have a community full of monkeys going crazy – and you are the zookeepers.

 

I’m a business communications consultant with 25 years of experience and it really hurts me to see, how you constantly incite this mob but do nothing to calm it down again. The tone in here and over at TGP gets more aggressive, slightly but steady. People are on the edge, constantly checking the forums, your site, the updater. They are waiting for the update to be released every second, especially since one of you officially wrote about an RC by the end of last week. Three days ago, the big silence was broken and many small details have been leaked. But no word about the time of release.

 

From a professional perspective, I think you should be transparent at this point, when or when not people can expect the release. At NAMM, you made a big deal out of your community stats. This is a time, to manage this community. To manage people and foremost their expectations. Please, give everyone here a realistic estimate.

 

Thank you.

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I'm gonna guess that the amount of complaining on this forum about the release date of version 2.8 is directly proportional to Line 6's reluctance to tell us anything in advance about future releases of Helix firmware.   

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9 minutes ago, sadrian said:

To @phil_m @Digital_Igloo and all officials and insiders in here:

 

I’m a business communications consultant with 25 years of experience and it really hurts me to see ...

This just reinforces that for every opinion there's another opposite one. L6 can't make everyone happy.

 

I personally prefer the non-polished-PR style of conversation from the L6 folks. If they did the latter, the only communication would be press releases on their web site. I'd rather them communicate with us like they would f2f, like they're doing now.

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8 minutes ago, sadrian said:

To @phil_m @Digital_Igloo and all officials and insiders in here:

No, you’re not anyones monkeys. At least I hope so. But as of now, you have a community full of monkeys going crazy – and you are the zookeepers.

 

I’m a business communications consultant with 25 years of experience and it really hurts me to see, how you constantly incite this mob but do nothing to calm it down again. The tone in here and over at TGP gets more aggressive, slightly but steady. People are on the edge, constantly checking the forums, your site, the updater. They are waiting for the update to be released every second, especially since one of you officially wrote about an RC by the end of last week. Three days ago, the big silence was broken and many small details have been leaked. But no word about the time of release.

 

From a professional perspective, I think you should be transparent at this point, when or when not people can expect the release. At NAMM, you made a big deal out of your community stats. This is a time, to manage this community. To manage people and foremost their expectations. Please, give everyone here a realistic estimate.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm sorry, but I haven't done anything to incite a mob, and neither has DI... I mean, if someone is offended by my gratuitous use of monkey gifs, then I guess they have other problems...

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2 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

I'm sorry, but I haven't done anything to incite a mob, and neither has DI... I mean, if someone is offended by my gratuitous use of monkey gifs, then I guess they have other problems...

 

No, you got that wrong. I don’t talk about memes, not the humour! I didn’t want to offend anyone in person!

 

You or DI wrote “with a luck, an RC is ready by the end of [last] week”. I think it was over on TGP. This, combined with springtime over, got everyone excited. There are quite some concrete questions about the timing in both forums. “Do we get it today/this week?” … you answer to a lot of details about the release, but not once since 10 days did you give people any estimate about the time. And that’s what everyone is after.

 

If you say “in two weeks”, than the crowd can calm down again and besides the usual nagging, no one will be mad.

People get mad when you don’t manage their expectations! 

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8 minutes ago, bsd512 said:

This just reinforces that for every opinion there's another opposite one. L6 can't make everyone happy.

 

I personally prefer the non-polished-PR style of conversation from the L6 folks. If they did the latter, the only communication would be press releases on their web site. I'd rather them communicate with us like they would f2f, like they're doing now.

 

Thank god there are even more sides to the story! My customers all have learned to communicate without polished BS and still be transparent.

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2 minutes ago, sadrian said:

 

No, you got that wrong. I don’t talk about memes, not the humour! I didn’t want to offend anyone in person!

 

You or DI wrote “with a luck, an RC is ready by the end of [last] week”. I think it was over on TGP. This, combined with springtime over, got everyone excited. There are quite some concrete questions about the timing in both forums. “Do we get it today/this week?” … you answer to a lot of details about the release, but not once since 10 days did you give people any estimate about the time. And that’s what everyone is after.

 

If you say “in two weeks”, than the crowd can calm down again and besides the usual nagging, no one will be mad.

People get mad when you don’t manage their expectations! 

 

What is hard to understand about "with luck"? Obviously, it's not a guarantee of anything... A release candidate is just that - it may potentially be ready to go, but there's often a good chance that some unexpected may pop up. There are no estimates about the timing because literally no one knows until right before the release. It's not complicated.

 

I was answering as many specific questions as I could over on TGP without violating my NDA because I was trying to be helpful. I'm not paid to do that (I'm not a Line 6 employee at all). I don't have to do it. I was doing it to be helpful. Frankly the idea of "managing expectations" over a free - FREE - firmware release is ridiculous.

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Since everything was pointing for a release, last weekend, I think they've found some showstopper, which probably means they have no ETA available since it's hard to make a prevision on top of debug sessions. Would be like rolling the dice again.

 

Software development. That's it.

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15 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

What is hard to understand about "with luck"? Obviously, it's not a guarantee of anything... A release candidate is just that - it may potentially be ready to go, but there's often a good chance that some unexpected may pop up. There are no estimates about the timing because literally no one knows until right before the release. It's not complicated.

 

I was answering as many specific questions as I could over on TGP without violating my NDA because I was trying to be helpful. I'm not paid to do that (I'm not a Line 6 employee at all). I don't have to do it. I was doing it to be helpful. Frankly the idea of "managing expectations" over a free - FREE - firmware release is ridiculous.

 

For one, my message was clearly to you, DI, officals and insiders in here. Not for you alone, @phil_m.

And once more – I did not intend to offend anyone! If I did, I want to apologize for that!

 

I only know a little about software development, but I understand the basic principles behind dev projects and I’m even a certified SCRUM product owner. I understand the road to a final release. With no word did I say, that you should release sooner or even that you’re doing something wrong in your job.

 

But I do know a thing or two about community management and communications. And I see, that the community management here is not at its best right now. (Not your job, @phil_m, if you’re not an official!).

 

I can’t be that hard to give people an estimate. Especially, if a release date is clearly weeks rather than days away.

 

 

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