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jstoller39

I Love My HX Stomp... But My Bandmate Doesn't

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After two months of owning an HX Stomp, I've managed to dial in some fantastic tones. I'm extremely pleased with my sound, but the other guitarist in my band isn't. He's absolutely convinced that digital can't hold a candle to a good old fashioned tube amp. 

 

Have any of you experienced this kind of resistance from your bandmates? If so, how did you convince them to come around?

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No I haven't.  Do you use onstage monitoring that keeps up with his tube amp?

I found as soon as I was making sounds the band could feel holding down the part of a guitar in a band context - it was all good.

I use FRFR wedges (in stereo - but I don't think that's got anything to do with it except it makes me happy!) - but in rehearsal I make sure one is facing "across stage" so everyone can hear me well.  Live, I don't worry about that - I leave that to the foldback and just bask in my stereo pleasure!

Recordings of the band and feedback form audience is my sound is great - that generally shuts up doubters!

 

 

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I really shouldn't be surprised anymore by how dumb human beings can be, and yet I still sometimes choke on my chocolate milk.

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No. The guys I play with are saving up for a Helix or a Fractal or a KPA.

 

Tell your GP what kind of tube amp you want him to buy you (be sure it has an FX Loop for the HXS), and be sure he understands that he'll be carrying it for you and replacing tubes as necessary.

 

Or, you could just buy a tube amp. Just be sure to ask your GP's GF what color amp she'd like you to get.....

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jstoller39 said:

If so, how did you convince them to come around?

 

Tell them to worry about their own gear. When they're parting the Red Sea with their magnificent tone, then they dictate what you can or can't use.

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Just to add further - I get that this might be some lifelong friend who saved you from drowning or something, so maybe this just isn't an option, but I still think this experience relates.

 

I once was looking into a band that seemed like a pretty good fit for me. Musical styles, taste, everything - it seemed perfect. They had one caveat though.  I had an Epiphone Les Paul Plus Top Pro. Loved the thing. It was my baby. Every place I played, she came with me.

 

However, if I were to be a part of the band, I found out the undeviating rule was that I would have to buy a Gibson Les Paul or a true American made Fender Strat. No other brands were allowed, and none of the smaller subsidiary guitars. My reliable trusty Epiphone girl would have to be left behind - or sold to help pay for a TRUE Gibson.

 

It took me all of ten seconds to tell those guys to go *?!@#! themselves. 

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1 hour ago, Kilrahi said:

Just to add further - I get that this might be some lifelong friend who saved you from drowning or something, so maybe this just isn't an option, but I still think this experience relates.

 

I once was looking into a band that seemed like a pretty good fit for me. Musical styles, taste, everything - it seemed perfect. They had one caveat though.  I had an Epiphone Les Paul Plus Top Pro. Loved the thing. It was my baby. Every place I played, she came with me.

 

However, if I were to be a part of the band, I found out the undeviating rule was that I would have to buy a Gibson Les Paul or a true American made Fender Strat. No other brands were allowed, and none of the smaller subsidiary guitars. My reliable trusty Epiphone girl would have to be left behind - or sold to help pay for a TRUE Gibson.

 

It took me all of ten seconds to tell those guys to go *?!@#! themselves. 

 

I wonder what they would have told Brian May. What a bunch of hosers. Did they go on to be Nickelback?

 

To the OP: how are you monitoring?

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4 hours ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

 

To the OP: how are you monitoring?

 

Yes, what kind of speaker do you use ?

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12 hours ago, jstoller39 said:

After two months of owning an HX Stomp, I've managed to dial in some fantastic tones. I'm extremely pleased with my sound, but the other guitarist in my band isn't. He's absolutely convinced that digital can't hold a candle to a good old fashioned tube amp. 

 

Have any of you experienced this kind of resistance from your bandmates? If so, how did you convince them to come around?

 

Your bandmate just live in the past....

Or one of those anti-digital hater who critizes without have tried (or not enough), or who hasn't himself managed to get a good tone with and think that the problem comes form the machine...

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There’s no convincing that you have to do.  Just worry about your part.  And as someone else mentioned, listen to the playback of the band and make sure everything sounds great.  We went years where I was using a fractal while our other guitar player had a traditional tube set up.   He sounded awesome, and so did I.  It wasn’t until we went to in-ears that he decided to move to a modeler.  That’s right after helix came out, and that unit really convinced him.  And his tones ended up convincing me to come back to line 6 as well.  

 

 

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I would play what I am happy with if he is happy with his tube amp that's ok too the problem is he wants you to be the same as him. I use a tube amp when gigging but use the helix as a pedal board I also have a power cab and have used that as well the only difference between the Helix and the tube amp is not in the sound but the lack of harmonic feedback (if you hit and hold a note and turn towards the amp to be rewarded with a lovely F3 harmonic) now I am old and play blues/classic rock and this is important to me but at some point I think Line 6 will address this either by adding a frequout pedal or some other magical gigery pockery but if I did not do this kind of playing I would be happy with the Helix into the Powercab

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Some people just won't be 'convince(d) to come around'. They are locked into their bias. If that's the case here then you have a choice: stick to the sound you like and let him choose what to do about it (including firing you if that's the power hierarchy), or fire him (if that's the power hierarchy), or acquiesce to his wishes if you deem the consequences of not doing so to be too severe.

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To start with, I'm not in the same boat here, but a good tale that this is either the GP or your tones.

Anyway, hold my chocolate milk (@Kilrahi - made me proper lol reading your line), I need to roll my sleeves up.

 

I'm in a band (Isola (UK band) if anyone cares to investigate) and both guitarists until the last 6 months used Native Instruments Guitar Rig with Rig Kontrol. At gigs we were get other bands guitarists coming up to see our pedal boards and ask for settings to see how we got our ambient sounds and some of our big doomy sounds. Now, it's taken me years to find anything that comes even close to be able to supply what NI-GI does and Helix is the first thing that not only does that, but does it better.

 

Sure, i'd like the routing to be a better (multi-splits), and I'd like a few of the items to be a bit less modelled and more "generic does everything" like the Kemplar items (are you listening Mr Line6!). But it is simply a shedload better sounding. Hey maybe this damned missing 2.8 update is going to solve this! It's... hey... where is it? 20 days left of Spring... ;)

 

So whereas I've switched over to helix, the other guitarist is switching back to all pedals and backbreaking Fender Twin. 

 

If you're already plugged into FR speakers than you should be fine - but be warned not all FRs are equal.

 

I'm not going down the FR route, I'm going down an Laney Ironheart IRT-SLS 300 route, so I'm mixing and matching.
It's adding a bit of extra own tone, but it's also giving me some Black Country doomness (well I think it does, but hey who knows). It's light, doesn't attempt to kill me like the Fender Twin.

Does plugging into an FR sound different? Yes.

Does plugging into the Twin sound different? Yes.

Do either sound better? No - just different, and it's completely subjective to what your requirements and your eq settings, boost the crap out of things. 

 

However, there are certain people that are always going to vote for a certain thing, no matter the weight of facts against that... and no matter how much milkshake gets thrown over them well... won't change their mind.

 

So unless the GP is the "king" of your band, and the problem is that you can't get loud enough to the drummer (not the GP - often a perceived problem because they've stood 0"s away from the bloody cabs), then stick with what YOU want to do. It's meant to be a band - it's meant to be a combination of what you all bring. Isola works at it's best when everyone is doing what they do best. I spent years arguing throughout the 90s because my god I wanted to put the reverb in front of the delay in front of the distortion, cause yes that huge wall of distortion that's what I wanted... and yes, it works... now dissolve in it! xD

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19 hours ago, jstoller39 said:

Have any of you experienced this kind of resistance from your bandmates? If so, how did you convince them to come around?

 

Kick their a** with tone and versatility. Until you do that they will not be convinced, and even when you do they will likely move the goal posts. 

 

I regularly do a gig at a local musicians hangout. I go direct with my Helix LT and I run a Peavey Bandit (power amp in) loaded with a COAX full range speaker for myself. Everybody loves my tone and asks about it. When I show my rig I don't know what offends them more... the Helix modelling going direct (that they hear) or the solid state peavey that I listen to :) 

 

YES - it is that stupid! 

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7 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

Kick their a** with tone and versatility. Until you do that they will not be convinced, and even when you do they will likely move the goal posts. 

 

I regularly do a gig at a local musicians hangout. I go direct with my Helix LT and I run a Peavey Bandit (power amp in) loaded with a COAX full range speaker for myself. Everybody loves my tone and asks about it. When I show my rig I don't know what offends them more... the Helix modelling going direct (that they hear) or the solid state peavey that I listen to :) 

 

YES - it is that stupid! 

 

And the louder they pontificate about the glory of all things tube, the worse they tend to play.... not always, but it's a relatively safe bet.

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As a first time poster, really appreciate all the responses.

 

When I first brought the HX Stomp to practice, I made the mistake of plugging straight to the PA and running some of the factory presets. Needless to say, the results weren't great.

 

First impressions matter, and I don't think my bandmate has been able to get over what he heard.

 

It's up to me to convince him otherwise. I've rented a powered pa monitor for home practice, which has helped greatly.

 

Question: is there a big difference, tonally, between a pa speaker and FRFR? Money's an issue, and I'm not sure if I can justify the cost.

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16 hours ago, jstoller39 said:

Question: is there a big difference, tonally, between a pa speaker and FRFR?

 

Any decent PA speaker is FRFR, or as close as anything actually gets....nothing has a perfectly flat response, and you may notice subtle differences between any two speakers that claim to be FRFR. But that's only one part of the equation anyway.... when creating your tones, volume is absolutely critical. You must dial in your patches at or (very) close to the volume at which you intend to use them...If you're playing that monitor you rented at cozy living room volume when creating your tones, when you get to rehearsal and crank up to stage volume, you will be in for a very rude awakening... volume profoundly affects the perceived loudness of different frequency ranges. This would be the case even if you had rented the exact same speaker that you play through with your band... it's the volume that matters. Nothing will sound the way it did at home, and you'll only reinforce your bandmate's anti-modeler prejudice.

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On 6/2/2019 at 5:18 PM, jstoller39 said:

After two months of owning an HX Stomp, I've managed to dial in some fantastic tones. I'm extremely pleased with my sound, but the other guitarist in my band isn't. He's absolutely convinced that digital can't hold a candle to a good old fashioned tube amp. 

 

Have any of you experienced this kind of resistance from your bandmates? If so, how did you convince them to come around?

Always get people like this to discuss outcomes and not the means. Those folks are the ones that couldn't tell apart a Metal Zone straight in the mixer from a perfectly miked Triple Rectifier. What matters is the outcome, if it works then it does. If it doesn't work, he's right. Is there an actual problem he's trying to solve?

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Have any of you experienced this kind of resistance from your bandmates? If so, how did you convince them to come around?

 

Don't try...

 

Like Glenn Campbell once said in "True Grit", You've done nothing when you have bested a fool.

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cruisin is right with regard to creating tones at volume ...it’s critical to so many things, the way you EQ how much gain you need to dial in etc.  I would just add that in my experience, there’s as point you can get to that’s loud enough to create the tone but may it’s not the level you would play at live. While I wouldn’t be so bold as to say that the fletcher Munson curve stops after a certain point, I’ve found a sweet spot that, while it still may annoy my neighbours it’s not dangerously loud for me to be in that environment for the hours on end that I spend crafting patches.  I’ve found that the patches translate well to gig volumes.  I will in fact crank it for a few seconds just to check but I’m getting more confident in my crafting level.  And conversely, I can hear the huge difference when I lower the volume to bedroom levels.  Point being find that sweet spot so you can create the patches without damaging your hearing.  I’ve lost entire weekends just crafting patches,  I can’t imagine all that exposure to gig volumes would be good for my hearing.

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10 hours ago, jstoller39 said:

When I first brought the HX Stomp to practice, I made the mistake of plugging straight to the PA and running some of the factory presets. Needless to say, the results weren't great.

 

Question: is there a big difference, tonally, between a pa speaker and FRFR? Money's an issue, and I'm not sure if I can justify the cost.

 

As Cruisinon2 said, a PA speaker is FRFR and you can/would follow advices above.

Nevertheless, even if they're said to be flat response, All the PA don't reproduce the same sound curve. I used to train on a PA at home and play on another brand at rehearsal, the sound was harsher/in the highs when i play with my band....(I think this is one of the reason why there's a so huge range price between speakers (with inputs number, noise, power, quality....))

I imagine you haven't bought the same speaker you have in your band.....

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On 6/3/2019 at 6:55 PM, cruisinon2 said:

 

Any decent PA speaker is FRFR, or as close as anything actually gets....nothing has a perfectly flat response, and you may notice subtle differences between any two speakers that claim to be FRFR. But that's only one part of the equation anyway.... when creating your tones, volume is absolutely critical. You must dial in your patches at or (very) close to the volume at which you intend to use them...If you're playing that monitor you rented at cozy living room volume when creating your tones, when you get to rehearsal and crank up to stage volume, you will be in for a very rude awakening... volume profoundly affects the perceived loudness of different frequency ranges. This would be the case even if you had rented the exact same speaker that you play through with your band... it's the volume that matters. Nothing will sound the way it did at home, and you'll only reinforce your bandmate's anti-modeler prejudice.

 

Wouldn't it be grand to have a "Fletcher-Munson" block that automatically compensated the EQ so that a patch sounded roughly the same at any volume? Sort of a much more sophisticated version of what a "Loudness" button attempts to do.  I could see something like this coming around eventually. It would make patches easier to design at lower volumes and more predictable moving them from design phase to stage. A real ear saver.

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3 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Wouldn't it be grand to have a "Fletcher-Munson" block that automatically compensated the EQ so that a patch sounded roughly the same at any volume? Sort of a much more sophisticated version of what a "Loudness" button attempts to do.  I could see something like this coming around eventually. It would make patches easier to design at lower volumes and more predictable moving them from design phase to stage. A real ear saver.

 

Yeah....plug a calibration mic into the mic input, place it at the"listening point" in the room, press the "Calibrate FM Block button", grab a big ole 'A' chord and VOILA! FM Block calibrated at that db level! I love it! Next time I'm really bored I'll put it up on Ideascale......maybe in v4.0? ETA Spring 2035.......

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1 minute ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Wouldn't it be grand to have a "Fletcher-Munson" block that automatically compensated the EQ so that a patch sounded roughly the same at any volume? Sort of a much more sophisticated version of what a "Loudness" button attempts to do.  I could see something like this coming around eventually. It would make patches easier to design at lower volumes and more predictable moving them from design phase to stage. A real ear saver.

 

It's been done, sort of... with a 10- band graphic EQ. It was posted some time ago. It was supposed to be a curve that would compensate for added volume...you could just drop in at the end of your signal chain, allowing you to tweak your patches without pi$$ing of the neighbors. Then just click the block on when you're getting loud. It's around here somewhere...I messed with it briefly. But honestly, it's the same amount of work... you have to repeatedly A/B loud vs soft, and figure out exactly which to boost and cut to end up with the same result at both volumes. What works for clean tones won't necessarily be the same for dirty tones. I ended up just doing what I've always done: keep separate patches for home and stage.

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10 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Wouldn't it be grand to have a "Fletcher-Munson" block that automatically compensated the EQ so that a patch sounded roughly the same at any volume? Sort of a much more sophisticated version of what a "Loudness" button attempts to do.  I could see something like this coming around eventually. It would make patches easier to design at lower volumes and more predictable moving them from design phase to stage. A real ear saver.

 

The Vetta II 2.5 had that in it. I didn't do enough research to check out and see if it actually worked but since it hasn't been included in anything else, I'm assuming it either didn't work well or at the time, no one cared about it. I think it would be hard to incorporate here since there would be no way to tell how loud whatever you were playing through would be. You would need to know that for this to be effective.

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14 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

It's been done, sort of... with a 10- band graphic EQ. It was posted some time ago. It was supposed to be a curve that would compensate for added volume...you could just drop in at the end of your signal chain, allowing you to tweak your patches without pi$$ing of the neighbors. Then just click the block on when you're getting loud. It's around here somewhere...I messed with it briefly. But honestly, it's the same amount of work... you have to repeatedly A/B loud vs soft, and figure out exactly which to boost and cut to end up with the same result at both volumes. What works for clean tones won't necessarily be the same for dirty tones. I ended up just doing what I've always done: keep separate patches for home and stage.

 

I think I remember the posts and presets you are referring to. Definitely a great effort by that individual but something that adjusted automatically on the fly would be ideal. Not expecting to see something like this anytime soon if at all. As rd2rk and brue58ski mention to make it automatic would probably require a properly calibrated mic setup such as the ones used for "pinking" a room anyway. The whole idea is to make things easier so that would have to be a dirt simple process.

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