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tahiche

Paths are confusing...

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Hi,

I just received my Helix and I´m loving it. I do have an issue with the paths/DSP conundrum. 

First off, and this is somehow a "i wish" request... It´d be easier if there was a create "path 1B" or "path 2" command... Even if it was empty, rather than having to create a block in one place to drag it down ... it doesný seem very intuitive.

Second, and somehow related to the above... Even after reading various posts about dragging blocks,  merge and splits to create new paths... It´s just not clear what´s happening. If i´m on a single path (1A) and i drag don a block, etc. Am I creating path 1B or path 2A?. I beleive it´s 1B... But I want to even out the DSP , i want 2A... How do you "choose" and know if it´s a different path (2) or one that shares DSP (1B). Say I want a simple setup with 1 path for guitar and one for vocal, each with it´s own DSP... What´s different in the way you create 1B from 1A vs 2A from 1A ?.

I must be missing something, but i´ve read quite a lot and it´s just not clear. Also, it doesn´t help that there´s no indication of path info (is this 1B or 2A ?) at least for unexpirienced users its somehow confusing.

Thanks!

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From page 8 of the manual:

image.png.81e47ddd295b3722b31ee85ab205d33d.png

 

DSP1 is for Path 1 and DSP2 is for Path 2.  You can't drag blocks from Path 1 to Path 2.

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When you drag down a block you are creating the B section of either Path 1 (top) or Path 2 (bottom).

 

By default, each Path A has its own Input block; there is no Input block for Path B. Path B is usually fed from a point in Path A. To create a guitar Path 1 and a vocal Path 2 you would set the Path 1 input to Guitar and the Path 2 Input to Mic. Then you would place the processing blocks as desired in each Path, dragging any single block down to create the B section of each Path if desired.

 

To use both Paths for a single signal chain (using one input) set the Output block of Path 1A to Path 2A.

 

There are ways to manipulate a patch to have 4 Input blocks and/or 4 Output blocks. See the Templates Factory Setlist for examples.

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Another "ditto" for checking out the "templates" factory setlist. Great head start on your own patches.

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19 hours ago, tahiche said:

Hi,

I just received my Helix and I´m loving it. ....It´d be easier if there was a create "path 1B" or "path 2" command... ..

Hi

 

and congrats to entering the Helix world! It's full of fun and wonders. :-D

 

... unfortunately the user interface is completely overloaded with all those kind of 'shortcuts' - where simple commands would be a lot easier (not only regarding paths).

 

But don't lose  hope: You get used to it and/or switch to using HX Edit (the client software for pc/mac) :-D

I personally use

A) the Helix's interface for 'sound parameters' of the blocks (choosing the block, setting up gain, delay time, compression, eq, ...) because it is very self explainatory, quick and 'reality like'. It's easy to play your guitar and turn a button at (nearly) the same time.

 

B) For all the other stuff ('routing', controllers, in/output configuration, ....) i use HX edit.

 

Great that you can use A) und B) at the same time!

 

Rock on .... it's worth it!

 

Simon268

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Thank u all for answering. 

After wrinting the post I got hands on and saw that paths 1 and 2 are "there" to begin with, so you can only create "secondary" lanes (1B, 2B) and not paths... I still think you should be able to create a path (1B, 2B) via a command, these things you take for granted once you start using it, but it´s not very intuitive. This being said, the interface and workflow is just fantastic.

Now that you´re here... ;) One thing that I beleive can´t be done and I can´t see why. Using a path sort of as an "effects send". For example sharing reverb and delay between Vocals and guitar. If you have 2 paths (be it 1A and 1B or 1A and 2A) with different inputs and outputs...

 

I play a 3 string CGB acting as bass and guitar and sing.  I´m moving form Voicelive 3 to Helix and have to rethin my setup. Voicelive 3 is superb but  I feel like i needed more flexibility. Guitar FX in Helix are superior (not the case for vocals where Voicelive excels) but I was missing the "bass" part. I use an A/b/Y splitter for guitar and a SubN'Up for the bass (to bass amp). With Helix I can do all 3 in the same unit, guitar, bass and vocals. I can use a snapshot to alter all 3 at once, that´s just amazing. When you´re singing and doing guitar + bass I need to be able to do everything on one "step", Snapshots are killer. 

 

My current Helix preset scenario ( i´ll attach a picture):

- Path 1A and 1B for guitar (more FX and DSP needed) -input guitar - output 1/4

- Path 2A - Bass - pitch shifted guitar signal (SubN'Up on loop send/return)  with its own FX - output aux 3

- Path 2B - Vocals - vocal Fx blocks -  output XLR.

 

I wish i could have some "common" FX such as reverb and delay to share between inputs, the way traditional FX sends in DAW or analog consoles do... I could give up line 1B of guitar if i could do that, I just can´t see how to achieve that with splitters or outputs... A common delay and ambience reverb that i could send guitar and vocals to would simplify the diagram and consume less resources. 

 

I´d love to hear any advice. I´m impressed by the respone of this community. I beleive i´m gonna be an avid user. 

 

 

Thanks a lot!!!!

 

helix-3-piece.jpg

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Re a common delay/reverb. Just an idea that I haven't checked out yet but perhaps a creative use of the send/return blocks could get your guitar/vocal inputs going into the same delay/reverb. If you just use a short cable and go directly from the SEND to the RETURN in SEND 1 and/or 2. So, just off the top of my head and only one example, get rid of the delay and reverb on path 1B, have path 1's output go to SEND 1-2. Plug two short cables directly from SEND 1 & 2 to RETURN 1&2. I'm pretty sure you could actually just do it to one of the SEND/RETURNS if you're mono in path 1. Then, put the return on path 2B (1 or 2, where evfer you put the cable), right before the delay and reverb (you'll have to lose a block in that path, perhaps the volume at the beginning). Use the RETURN's mix to adjust the blend of the two signals. I'm pretty sure you could link that to a snapshot or expression pedal if you wanted more control over their blend.

 

Better yet, put the lone bass path on path 1, then put the guitar on path 2A, take the delay and reverb on path 2B and put them on 2A. Then merge the mic path (2B) right before the delay and reverb on path 2A. Don't know if there will be enough DSP to do this all on path 2. There's probably even more ways to do this than these 2.

 

Part of the confusion is that there are so many options and therfore, ways of doing things. Just take your time and you should be good. Good Luck!

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WOW!!! had to read this 3 times :)  Very grateful !

Quote

Better yet, put the lone bass path on path 1, then put the guitar on path 2A, take the delay and reverb on path 2B and put them on 2A. Then merge the mic path (2B) right before the delay and reverb on path 2A

This would mean guitar and vocals share output, right?. Or a "multi" out would be smart enough to send vocals w effects to their own xlr output?. They need to be on separate outputs, guitar to cab/amp and vocals to FOH/PA

 

Quote

. Then, put the return on path 2B (1 or 2, where evfer you put the cable), right before the delay and reverb (you'll have to lose a block in that path, perhaps the volume at the beginning). Use the RETURN's mix to adjust the blend of the two signals

 

This sounds like a great approach!. But I beleive that, again, this will be just one output...Right?.

Could it be an "FX send/return" path (say 2B)  where it´s input is set to Return 1 and output to send 2?. Then use that "send 1 / return 1" in guitar, and vocals path... It´s weird to need an actual cable for this... But ounds doable...

 

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I guess I didn't fully read your post. Bottom line is I'm not at home so I can't really try anything. But I hope I gave you some ideas or a path to get you to where you want to go. The manual would be a good place to start for this.

 

https://line6.com/support/manuals/helix

 

Page 20 (Ins & Outs) and page 30 (Sends & Returns). Also check out page 31 (Splits & Merges)

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Yes, I read the manual. Couldn´t find a case that applies to this send/return scenario. 

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So let's see if I understand what you're looking for. I;m not sure I do.

You want Guitar and Vocals to have their own outputs

You want one instance of delay and/or reverb that each source (Guitar/Vocals) can use

So, regarding the sources with their own outputs, did you want the Guitar with it's own delay and/or reverb on one path (not hearing the delay and/or reverb from the Vocals) and the Vocals with it's own delay and/or reverb on the other path (not hearing the delay and/or reverb from the Guitar) but both using the same instance/block of delay and/or reverb?

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I´m not making it clear, i know... Let me try again. Thanks for your patience!. 

I´ll quote te pic from my current starting point as ref. 

As you can see, I´m already out of space in my vocal path (2B). I obviously need to add a UniVibe here. Who doesn´t ;) ?

On path 1B i got some general-purpose parallel effects, reverb, delay... These are what you´d set up as "send bus" in a traditional console (or DAW) approach. I would have no prob in sharing these between guitar and vocals, so yes, one instance of a block shared between vocals and guitar. That would free up some space (and DSP ?) . 

But we have to take into account they have unique inouts/outputs:

- vocal has mic input and XLR output

- guit has guitar in - 1/4 out

- bass has guitar in - send 1 (or whatver) out

 

This means vocal reverb, delay... has to go back to vocal path (2B).

Guitar reverb, delay, back to guitar path (1A) 

No vocal reverb going into guitar amp, no guitar reverb to vocal PA... 

 

The only way i can see this happening is using send/returns, but i can´t quite get my head around it....

Use a "send 1" on guitar & vocals.

I could set the "Bus FX" (now 1B) to have a return 1 as input (i beleive this would require a little cable from send 1 to return 1 as i see no "virtual loopbacks"). But the output?. It´d need to be a return, right?. Cos´if itñs say XLR, the guitar reverb would go to the vocal PA.

So i´m thinking it could  be "Send 2" , (another little cable patch), and then use a "Return 2" on both guitar and vocal. 

Still, with both vocals and guitar sending signal to one instance of reverb, the return from that reverb would have both guitar and vocals, which makes sense, just like on a traditional  Send Bus... 

I think it can´t be done. It´d be possible if they shared an output, like using Amp+cab block and not output to a physical guitar amp. 

 

Thanks!!

 

 

On 6/4/2019 at 1:15 PM, tahiche said:

 

helix-3-piece.jpg

 

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Well one thing I'm sure of, is this " with both vocals and guitar sending signal to one instance of reverb, the return from that reverb would have both guitar and vocals, which makes sense, just like on a traditional  Send Bus...  ". I'll muck around at home later on sometime this week if I have time . Sounds like a challenge. One thing you may need to know is other than the output or using FX sends and returns (with short cable connecting the send to the return), there's no way to just click and drag a path connecting anywhere in path 1 to path 2.

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