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robmutilva

High gain amps sound like Fuzz

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HI Everyone. Wanted to get some input:

 

I got an HX Stomp for home use and i’m Having trouble getting a good high gain amp sound out of it. I’m looking to use it as a full rig.

Clean amps and effects sound beautiful but ALL high gain amps (except for the Archetype Dirty  (PRS Archon) ) sound like fuzz. Like when your sound is clipping or a busted speaker cone, or farty low end sound.

 

I’ve tried if through the return FX loop of a Boss Katana 100 and a Blackstar HT5R and now a line 6 powercab plus (input 1). The issue is more pronounced with the powercab plus.

 

Here are the settings i tried:

 

HX stomp (firmware 2.71)

- mono input and output out of HX stomp

- HX stomp output set to “line”

- high cut set to 12kh and low cut set to 100hz

- impedance set to automatic (tweaking it did not solve issue)

- preset patch: any high gain amp (Brit 2204, placater, Brit plexi, etc) + stock cab or IR (using ownhammer and sigma audio) + simple EQ with hi and lo cuts

 

pwoercab plus

-  tired all speaker sims 

- input level set to 0db 

- high cut 12.0 kHz and low cut 100 hz 

- i messed with mic distance and type put the issue persists. 

 

Re-loaded firmware on power cab plus and reset HX Stomp to factory settings. 

 

 

Sorry for the lengthy post but i’m At the verge of selling all this stuff since i can’t get it to sound anywhere near what i hear on videos. I know it won’t sound like a tube amp, and i’m Ok with that. But at least it should not sound so fuzzy and harsh. I can get better drive sounds of out amplitude on my iPad :/

Do i have bad HX Stomp? A defective powercab+? Am i missing something?

 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks and I hope y’all have a great week!

 

 

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34 minutes ago, robmutilva said:

HI Everyone. Wanted to get some input:

 

I got an HX Stomp for home use and i’m Having trouble getting a good high gain amp sound out of it. I’m looking to use it as a full rig.

Clean amps and effects sound beautiful but ALL high gain amps (except for the Archetype Dirty  (PRS Archon) ) sound like fuzz. Like when your sound is clipping or a busted speaker cone, or farty low end sound.

 

I’ve tried if through the return FX loop of a Boss Katana 100 and a Blackstar HT5R and now a line 6 powercab plus (input 1). The issue is more pronounced with the powercab plus.

 

Here are the settings i tried:

 

HX stomp (firmware 2.71)

- mono input and output out of HX stomp

- HX stomp output set to “line”

- high cut set to 12kh and low cut set to 100hz

- impedance set to automatic (tweaking it did not solve issue)

- preset patch: any high gain amp (Brit 2204, placater, Brit plexi, etc) + stock cab or IR (using ownhammer and sigma audio) + simple EQ with hi and lo cuts

 

pwoercab plus

-  tired all speaker sims 

- input level set to 0db 

- high cut 12.0 kHz and low cut 100 hz 

- i messed with mic distance and type put the issue persists. 

 

Re-loaded firmware on power cab plus and reset HX Stomp to factory settings. 

 

 

Sorry for the lengthy post but i’m At the verge of selling all this stuff since i can’t get it to sound anywhere near what i hear on videos. I know it won’t sound like a tube amp, and i’m Ok with that. But at least it should not sound so fuzzy and harsh. I can get better drive sounds of out amplitude on my iPad :/

Do i have bad HX Stomp? A defective powercab+? Am i missing something?

 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks and I hope y’all have a great week!

 

 

 

A more or less identical question was asked just yesterday... honestly, it comes up repeatedly. There's a new "fizz/fuzz/harsh/buzz" thread once a week, or so. So rather than write the same thing over again, just have a look at the most recent thread:

 

 

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A high cut at 12kHz is going to have a pretty negligible effect on the tone... Going into a guitar cab, it will have no effect at all. There's not much happening up there. If you really feel you need to cut highs, you're going to need to be a lot more aggressive. As far as going into the Katana and Blackstar amps, those are guitar cabs, so you'd actually probably want to disable any cab blocks/IRs in the Stomp. Going into the Powercab, if you have the Powercab set to Flat Mode with the FRFR voicing, you'd be fine to use the cabs/IRs... If you want to use Speaker Mode on the Powercab, again, you'd want to have the cab block/IR block bypassed in the Stomp.

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Thanks for the reply. I saw that thread form yesterday and I agree with your assessment. That being said, I’ve had this unit since November and haven’t been able to get a decent high gain tone. I’d be happy if I could get it to sound like a cheap solid state amp.

I’ve watched Sedites’ videos and they are great but whatever i tweak (i don’t even know what else to tweak at this point), the issue with fuzz-like gain persists. I guess i’ll continue working at it but after messing a lot with EQ and speakers, cuts, inpu/output levels, etc, i’m Not sure where to go from here. 

 

I appreciate your input. Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, phil_m said:

A high cut at 12kHz is going to have a pretty negligible effect on the tone... Going into a guitar cab, it will have no effect at all. There's not much happening up there. If you really feel you need to cut highs, you're going to need to be a lot more aggressive. As far as going into the Katana and Blackstar amps, those are guitar cabs, so you'd actually probably want to disable any cab blocks/IRs in the Stomp. Going into the Powercab, if you have the Powercab set to Flat Mode with the FRFR voicing, you'd be fine to use the cabs/IRs... If you want to use Speaker Mode on the Powercab, again, you'd want to have the cab block/IR block bypassed in the Stomp.

Thanks phil_m: i’ll Try cutting more highs. Here’s an example with just  the powercab tho’ (to eliminate variables)

 

hx stomp  mono out; just amp sim; no cab sim  —> powercab + input 1 (set to 0db)  with speak sim (build-in or IR)

I ran all PC+ 7 speaker sims and the fuzz-like high gain; especially in the low end is there across all speakers. 

I tried using a cab sim from the hx stomp and run the PC+ as FRFR and the still the same issue. 

Any thoughts? 

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1 minute ago, robmutilva said:

Thanks phil_m: i’ll Try cutting more highs. Here’s an example with just  the powercab tho’ (to eliminate variables)

 

hx stomp  mono out; just amp sim; no cab sim  —> powercab + input 1 (set to 0db)  with speak sim (build-in or IR)

I ran all PC+ 7 speaker sims and the fuzz-like high gain; especially in the low end is there across all speakers. 

I tried using a cab sim from the hx stomp and run the PC+ as FRFR and the still the same issue. 

Any thoughts? 

 

Well, it could be that you need to dial the gain back a bit... A fuzzy tone usually means you have too much saturation somewhere along the signal path. What type of guitar are you using? If it's something with higher output pickups, you might want to try setting the Stomp's input level to Line. Beyond the Drive (sometimes labeled Gain) and Master Volume settings, the parameters that are going to have the most impact on amp distortion are Sag and Bias. The Bias setting can have a pretty big impact. Setting the Sag lower will make everything tighter sounding.

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4 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

Well, it could be that you need to dial the gain back a bit... A fuzzy tone usually means you have too much saturation somewhere along the signal path. What type of guitar are you using? If it's something with higher output pickups, you might want to try setting the Stomp's input level to Line. Beyond the Drive (sometimes labeled Gain) and Master Volume settings, the parameters that are going to have the most impact on amp distortion are Sag and Bias. The Bias setting can have a pretty big impact. Setting the Sag lower will make everything tighter sounding.

Thanks phil_m;

I’m playing a charvel  San Dimas with a JB and a 59’ . I have not messed with SAG or BIAS much yet so I’ll give that a try. 

I have the Stomp’ s output level set to line. You’re saying to set the guitar input to line as well? I’ll try that when i get home. 

I’m typically running gain from 1.5 to 5 on the Marshall models and running the Channel vol. and master vol (when applicable) from 7-9.

 

Thanks again for your help. 

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8 hours ago, robmutilva said:

Thanks for the reply. I saw that thread form yesterday and I agree with your assessment. That being said, I’ve had this unit since November and haven’t been able to get a decent high gain tone. I’d be happy if I could get it to sound like a cheap solid state amp.

I’ve watched Sedites’ videos and they are great but whatever i tweak (i don’t even know what else to tweak at this point), the issue with fuzz-like gain persists. I guess i’ll continue working at it but after messing a lot with EQ and speakers, cuts, inpu/output levels, etc, i’m Not sure where to go from here. 

 

I appreciate your input. Thanks!

 

this kind of discussion is completely pointless if you don't post one of your presets and possibly an audio track. that should be the beginning of any conversation about "I can't get a good tone". Go do that, then we can help you.

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20 hours ago, robmutilva said:

Like when your sound is clipping or a busted speaker cone, or farty low end sound.

I tend to lower the gain, bump up the master (around 6-7) and add a Minotaur (gain between 1-2) when I dial in the higher gain amps on the Helix. This approach tightens up the low end, in my experience. 

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2 hours ago, steelstringer said:

I tend to lower the gain, bump up the master (around 6-7) and add a Minotaur (gain between 1-2) when I dial in the higher gain amps on the Helix. This approach tightens up the low end, in my experience. 

Thanks steelstringer. I’ll give that a try when i get home . 

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14 hours ago, BlueD said:

 

this kind of discussion is completely pointless if you don't post one of your presets and possibly an audio track. that should be the beginning of any conversation about "I can't get a good tone". Go do that, then we can help you.

Thanks BlueD. My signal chain and setting where are the top of the thread but you’re right, its hard to diagnose without a sound clip. I’ll work and getting  and audio file to add to the thread. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, robmutilva said:

Thanks BlueD. My signal chain and setting where are the top of the thread but you’re right, its hard to diagnose without a sound clip. I’ll work and getting  and audio file to add to the thread. Thanks.

That's not enough, there's a million ways to skin this cat. Post the patch too, I'm sure there's issues there too. For example, ever heard of gain staging?

 

Post both and we can help you. Also a reference of what sound you're going for would be super helpful (like a famous song).

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2 hours ago, robmutilva said:

Thanks BlueD. My signal chain and setting where are the top of the thread but you’re right, its hard to diagnose without a sound clip. I’ll work and getting  and audio file to add to the thread. Thanks.

 

I think what BlueD is referring to are all of your settings both on the blocks in your patch as well as on the Helix in general.  Sometimes it's just easier to post the patch itself on some shared site and give a reference to it.  Also any elements you might have changed from the defaults in global values and settings.

 

The other thing that's REALLY important are your cab or IR settings which include mic/mic mixes and mic placements.  Those have a MAJOR impact on the sound.  Although you mentioned you tried all the speaker sims there are a LOT of values on the Helix cabinets which have a significant impact beyond the defaults (which aren't always very good).  Also whether you tried using dual cabs in order to mix different mics which is probably one of the more efficient ways of getting the sound you want.  The same would apply to IRs in what type of mic mixes and placements you used.

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1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

I think what BlueD is referring to are all of your settings both on the blocks in your patch as well as on the Helix in general.  Sometimes it's just easier to post the patch itself on some shared site and give a reference to it.  Also any elements you might have changed from the defaults in global values and settings.

 

The other thing that's REALLY important are your cab or IR settings which include mic/mic mixes and mic placements.  Those have a MAJOR impact on the sound.  Although you mentioned you tried all the speaker sims there are a LOT of values on the Helix cabinets which have a significant impact beyond the defaults (which aren't always very good).  Also whether you tried using dual cabs in order to mix different mics which is probably one of the more efficient ways of getting the sound you want.  The same would apply to IRs in what type of mic mixes and placements you used.

Oh, I see what you mean. I’ll upload the patch file once I get home. Thanks! 

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