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Retro-Rick

How many people would like to see a medium size Helix?

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I bought a full Helix, love it almost completely, just wish it wasn't as big as it is. 

I bought an HX Stomp, I love a lot about it, but I really miss a lot of what was cut from the Helix.

 

So like Goldie Locks, This one's too big, that one's too small, I want one that is just right!

 

That's what I'm hoping to find. A Medium sized helix with.

 

1) Full Variax Control

2) 6-8 Buttons

3) Scribble Strips

4) More powerful than HX Stomp ( More Blocks, More Snapshots, Snapshots with names, Holds more presets than 128)

5) No Wall Wart Power Plug

6) No Built In Expression Pedal (just optional plug in)

7) XLR outs

8) Volume Meters

9) Buttons with more programmability (Not just click, but also - toggle, and hold, that you can assign)

 

If Line 6 decides to make a pedal like this, it would be better than anything, even the FM3.

 

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That's the LT homie.

What you want is the Headrush gigboard with Helix guts, lol.

I think L6 has enough SKUs in the Helix family.

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26 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

That's the LT homie.

What you want is the Headrush gigboard with Helix guts, lol.

I think L6 has enough SKUs in the Helix family.

 

Not at all like the LT. The LT is almost exactly the same size as the full Helix and it lost the scribble strips which needs to be on a good mid-sized helix. What I'm suggesting is much more like the "HX Effects", it has 8 buttons, it has scribble strips, and it has no built it expression pedal.

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I get that, but if you want more blocks, more switches, and smaller than the full floor, the LT is it (hopefully, at least until everything is under one engine and then they can add as much hardware as they want, I guess).

Headrush makes the thing you're talking about, its called the Gigboard, but its no Helix IMO.

 

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1 hour ago, Retro-Rick said:

 

So like Goldie Locks, This one's too big, that one's too small, I want one that is just right!

 

 

 

Looks like it’s just you then, Goldie!

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man you get embrace it , do like me buy a keyboard 63 in ATA case , gut it , and build a 2 tier pealboalboard inside , go big or go home , lol

plus I got two wheels to haul my pedalboard .

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14 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

I get that, but if you want more blocks, more switches, and smaller than the full floor, the LT is it (hopefully, at least until everything is under one engine and then they can add as much hardware as they want, I guess).

Headrush makes the thing you're talking about, its called the Gigboard, but its no Helix IMO.

 

The gigboard is very weak compared to the FM3, the big thing for me is Variax, I want the ability to change tunings and guitar models per-preset like the helix.

I'm on the waitlist for the FM3, the only thing that would make me want to hold off would be if L6 announces a Mid-Sized Helix at summer namm.

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15 hours ago, Retro-Rick said:

the only thing that would make me want to hold off would be if L6 announces a Mid-Sized Helix at summer namm.

 

Don't hold your breath. There is such a thing as having too many irons in the fire. They've already got 5 hardware products... Helix floor, LT, rack, Stomp, HX FX...6 if you include the floorboard for the rack unit. If you keep cranking out slightly different versions, eventually you start inflicting option paralysis on your customers. Nobody needs a Helix with 11 1/2 footswitches, a breakfast nook, and a fire escape...;)

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2 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Don't hold your breath. There is such a thing as having too many irons in the fire. They've already got 5 hardware products... Helix floor, LT, rack, Stomp, HX FX...6 if you include the floorboard for the rack unit. If they keep cranking out slightly different versions, eventually it becomes option paralysis for potential customers. Nobody needs a Helix with 11 1/2 footswitches, a breakfast nook, and a fire escape...;)

 

Agreed.  More importantly each different variation requires a certain threshold number of buyers to make it worthwhile investing in the development of the product.  I'm not sure something like an LT without a pedal would garner enough market potential to make it profitable given the likely negligible price difference with the LT.  It just doesn't make good business sense to my eye.

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3 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Don't hold your breath. There is such a thing as having too many irons in the fire. They've already got 5 hardware products... Helix floor, LT, rack, Stomp, HX FX...6 if you include the floorboard for the rack unit. If you keep cranking out slightly different versions, eventually you start inflicting option paralysis on your customers. Nobody needs a Helix with 11 1/2 footswitches, a breakfast nook, and a fire escape...;)

Generally I agree with this. However, if enough people agree on a specific form factor and price—and it's derivative enough for us to crank out easily without disrupting either sustaining work on Helix firmware or new products we have cooking—we wouldn't rule anything out, especially if it fits neatly into a price point we don't currently reside in. For example, it'd be relatively easy for us to make an 18-switch Helix with two expression pedals for $1900-2000, but only like a dozen people would want something that big. (Upon reading this, Headrush quietly cancels their 18-switch Pedalboard.)

 

The problem is that when people design their ultimate Helix box, they rarely account for two really important things: the amount of space required for UI and I/O, and parts pricing. In other words, "Make a Helix with all the switches, scribble strips, and I/O of the big guy except make it HX Stomp size!" Or "Make a Helix with all the switches, scribble strips, and I/O of the big guy except remove this one tiny thing I don't personally care about and charge half price!" That's not what OP's asking for, but others do.

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I want a green one. 

  • Haha 2

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I'm an LT owner, and I do find it kind of big for my needs.  I wouldn't want to sacrifice power, but I like the OP's idea about a medium sized Helix. That said, I'll freely admit that I wouldn't buy it because I'm an LT owner already and it would certainly cost me money to switch. Sooo, I'm not helping here haha.

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Would something like this be possible?  Maybe get rid of fx loops and knock down L/R 1/4" outputs down to a stereo TRS with a splitter (included in box)?

I think a $800-850 price point would put it in between the Stomp and LT

HELIX LEAN.jpg

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8 minutes ago, robertgoddard said:

Would something like this be possible?  Maybe get rid of fx loops and knock down L/R 1/4" outputs down to a stereo TRS with a splitter (included in box)?

HELIX LEAN.jpg

Anything's possible, but a lot of people would be upset by the lack of effects loops and single TRS 1/4" output (and including the splitter would cost more than just keeping separate 1/4" jacks). Rough guess is that it'd cost maybe $100 less. So basically, Helix LT's price before tariffs forced us to raise it.

 

And the Volume knob is too close to the switches. If you made it smaller and moved it to the right of the UI cluster (display should be centered above A B C anyway) and added a step down above the top row (a la HX Effects), you could move the whole forehead in by an inch or more. :)

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29 minutes ago, Digital_Igloo said:

And the Volume knob is too close to the switches. If you made it smaller and moved it to the right of the UI cluster (display should be centered above A B C anyway) and added a step down above the top row (a la HX Effects), you could move the whole forehead in by an inch or more. :)

LOL, yeah, that was my quick and dirty MSPaint hackjob.  It was more for the concept.  I could see moving some IO to the sides, maybe keep most of the functionality.  I would even suggest just having 1 mono loop would suffice.  If people want more loops, pay more for LT?  What do you think it would take to hodge-podge something between HX Stomp and Helix LT to get to the $825 price point?

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12 minutes ago, robertgoddard said:

What do you think it would take to hodge-podge something between HX Stomp and Helix LT to get to the $825 price point?

The problem is that $825 is a weird price point. The closest workable one is $799, but I'm not sure there's a path to get there with your design, unfortunately. Consider removing or minimizing several of the following to help get you there:

  • 1 SHARC vs. 2 SHARCs
  • Big display (use the one on HX Stomp instead)
  • VDI
  • L6 LINK | AES/EBU
  • Additional footswitches
  • Metal chassis
  • Internal power supply

Might want to instead think about adding stuff to HX Stomp, as $799 is closer to it than Helix LT.

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Somewhere in between the Stomp and Helix or LT is definitely what I wanted for quite a while. When the Stomp came out, it didn't quite have everything I wanted, but I thought, what the heck - close enough - and I bought one. I loved it, of course. And I thought I could deal with its limitations vs its bigger brothers. And I could and did for a good while. But in the end, I returned it and got a second Helix. LT wasn't really what I was after because it's virtually the same size as the Helix. I was originally looking for near-Helix functionality in the areas that mattered to me, but smaller.

 

The thing I couldn't deal with on the Stomp and the reason I ultimately returned it and got a second Helix was not being able to share presets with my other Helix - not even the ones that were limited to 6 blocks. So now I have two Helixes, and one is much bigger than it needs to be. :-)

 

I'd consider the perfect middle ground would be two DSPs, no expression pedal, lose a few buttons to reduce the width, lose some I/O. KEEP: two DSPs, full preset compatibility, USB for recording. And keep as much other stuff as you can and still reduce the size to about what robertgoddard posted - or thereabouts.

 

I'd reckon it'd probably still be about LT priced. That'd be fine with me.

 

Owning a Stomp for a while was definitely a benefit to me, though - forced me to rethink some preset craziness and go minimal, and also force my re-introduction to stock cabs since when it came out the Editor didn't work for it so I couldn't load IRs if I wanted to. That forced me to use stock cabs - which I NOW LOVE!! Even better than IRs. Who'da thunk. The only IR I still use is a Taylor acoustic simulation IR. Stock cabs for everything else.

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Along a similar line of thought, I've often wondered ... if you took every suggestion from IdeaScale, and built that, what would it look like? I imagine a huge Rube Goldberg / steam punk contraption and approximately sofa-sized.

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Just now, bsd512 said:

Along a similar line of thought, I've often wondered ... if you took every suggestion from IdeaScale, and built that, what would it look like? I imagine a huge Rube Goldberg / steam punk contraption and approximately sofa-sized.

 

Time to break this out again...

 

giphy.gif

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26 minutes ago, Digital_Igloo said:

The problem is that $825 is a weird price point. The closest workable one is $799, but I'm not sure there's a path to get there with your design, unfortunately. Consider removing or minimizing several of the following to help get you there:

  • 1 SHARC vs. 2 SHARCs
  • Big display (use the one on HX Stomp instead)
  • VDI
  • L6 LINK | AES/EBU
  • Additional footswitches
  • Metal chassis
  • Internal power supply

Might want to instead think about adding stuff to HX Stomp, as $799 is closer to it than Helix LT.

 

I was just throwing ideas out there, I'm already a happy owner of an LT with the backpack deal that happened back in March.  I love it!  

Good to see feedback from higher ups in any company.  Keep up the good fight D.I.  I appreciate your time!

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8 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

Time to break this out again...

 

 

 

Or this, lol

osha-cowboy.jpg

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I might - to be honest your specs are kind of what I was hoping for in what turned out to be the HX Stomp.

 

But in full irony I ended up sellling my HELIX Floor but keeping my newly bought Stomp. 

 

its not perfect for me - but in fact is good for me for now.  the 6 block limit is good for me to end choice paralysis and to focus on learning what amps and effects are capable of.

 

the user interface on the Stomp is irritatingly modal though and cries out for a HX Edit for the iPad to make up for the limitations of useablity / workflow. 

 

it sounds just as great as my Floor - which has gone to a new owner who will I'm sure love it.    

 

1) Full Variax Control.  

YES PLEASE 

 

2) 6-8 Buttons

  6 will do

 

3) Scribble Strips

yes please 

 

4) More powerful than HX Stomp ( More Blocks, More Snapshots, Snapshots with names, Holds more presets than 128)

nice to have but actually I don't care so much any more for the proposed form fsctor

 

5) No Wall Wart Power Plug

OH ABSOLUTELY!  I HATE wall warts

 

6) No Built In Expression Pedal (just optional plug in)

agree

 

7) XLR outs

not bothered

 

8) Volume Meters

nope

 

9) Buttons with more programmability (Not just click, but also - toggle, and hold, that you can assign)

agreed.   the interface on Stomp is nowhere near as effortlessly easy and workflow-assisting as HELIX Floor.  Maybe a few extra buttons - even ONE would have made a huge difference in reducing modal operation - menu/mode diving etc etc

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Digital_Igloo said:

For example, it'd be relatively easy for us to make an 18-switch Helix with two expression pedals for $1900-2000, but only like a dozen people would want something that big

 

Bring it on!  

 

IF YOU BUILD IT .... THEY.....

 

 especially since the main reason I sold my helix floor - apart from not needing two units - one seeing little action - main reason was I mistakenly thought I'd had my HELIX Floor for around 5 years and thought a HELIX II might be imminent - but.... it  turns out  - silly me - I'd only had it for around 3 years! - 

But all the same - it means I. got a good resale price for it last week on eBay which is earmarked for whatever eventually becomes the HELIX II or HELIX PRO or ULTRA...

 

but I don't need 18 switches - 16 will do... :)  

 

But....   I also suspect - if Line6 designed in a really good looper - 4 track - something that beats boomerang etc - built in - those extra pedals to control looping etc etc - might with time see a bigger base becoming interested than might be suggested by user surveys. 

 

After all - how many people have massive pedal boards with what amounts to 18 stomps or so ?  quite a few I reckon. And being able to access snapshots while also being able to turn off individual effects at will - OR....  being able to allocate 4 or more stomps and scribbles to MIDI control or the built in super-duper-looper....   then that would be an attractive proposition.

 

you just need to provide lots of use-case examples for how those extra 4-6 stomps would be used

 

:) 

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But maybe if a future HELIX has that many stomps then a better fit would be a new HELIX Rack - with HELIX CONTROL MK II

 

But then again - maybe that's the answer - 

 

my HELIX BOARD + HX CONSOLE  idea ....

 

In MY final analysis I think it makes little sense for a floor multi-effects unit to merely copy anachronistically the current way guitarists assemble huge numbers of pedals on a board and then have to constantly bend down to the floor to tweak or program the whole caboodle. 

 

hardly ergonomic.  hardly taking full advantage of a modern technology that - as far as user interaction and ergonomics - needn't just emulate the old way.

 

So put only that which absolutely HAS to be on the floor - namely stomps and scribble strips - and put all the tweak able dials and knobs and buttons into a separate unit which can be operated at human eye-height without bending down.  

 

Just because HELIX is emulating old-school SONICALLY doesn't mean that *user operation* has to be old school ( ie requiring users to bend down and get backache ) too. 

 

:D 

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1 hour ago, d0stenning said:

In MY final analysis I think it makes little sense for a floor multi-effects unit to merely copy anachronistically the current way guitarists assemble huge numbers of pedals on a board and then have to constantly bend down to the floor to tweak or program the whole caboodle. 

 

hardly ergonomic.  hardly taking full advantage of a modern technology that - as far as user interaction and ergonomics - needn't just emulate the old way.

 

So put only that which absolutely HAS to be on the floor - namely stomps and scribble strips - and put all the tweak able dials and knobs and buttons into a separate unit which can be operated at human eye-height without bending down.  

 

Just because HELIX is emulating old-school SONICALLY doesn't mean that *user operation* has to be old school ( ie requiring users to bend down and get backache ) too.

Pedal Edit Mode? 2.80 even adds the ability to edit Input and Output blocks with your feet.

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2 hours ago, Digital_Igloo said:

Pedal Edit Mode? 2.80 even adds the ability to edit Input and Output blocks with your feet.

 

nice addition and pedal edit is cool for sure. but for ultimate tweak-ability i just like knobs and sliders. 

 

And pedal edit is  still a little modal for my liking.    I like the idea of having - say 12 knobs in a separate controller unit where the firs 6 could be defaulted to the amp at all times while the remaining ones go to something else.  the ability - like one finds with the modular-synth-thing these days - of simply being able to reach out to a knob and know it just does what it says on the "label" is priceless. 

 

Hell - maybe such a separate HELIX "control surface" could ..... double up as a... MIDI / DAW/ synth plugin ..... er .... control surface.... ? 

 

Its why the studio pros - for decades and gigabucks have been prepared to pay for massive desks like the SSL - 

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5 hours ago, robertgoddard said:

Would something like this be possible?  Maybe get rid of fx loops and knock down L/R 1/4" outputs down to a stereo TRS with a splitter (included in box)?

I think a $800-850 price point would put it in between the Stomp and LT

HELIX LEAN.jpg

 

While that is probably all I would need for most things, I can't imagine asking for less! I would think an HX effects with full amp modelling would be tempting but as someone who already owns a Helix, I would not replace it with something like this. When (if) it dies, I will buy another full Helix. You cannot beat the flexibility.

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7 minutes ago, ajcrowder said:

 

While that is probably all I would need for most things, I can't imagine asking for less! I would think an HX effects with full amp modelling would be tempting but as someone who already owns a Helix, I would not replace it with something like this. When (if) it dies, I will buy another full Helix. You cannot beat the flexibility.

 

I jus think a screen this big doesn't ultimately belong on the floor. Scribble strips do. 

 

Maybe an economy unit that simply delegates editing tasks to an iOS device but wth a "tiny" screen for emergency lat minute editing would be the answer. Kind of like Stomp i guess - but with scribble strips too? 

 

would make that mockup above a lot smaller.

 

but whatever it is - it needs to have just enough - *extra* buttons and/or stomps when compared to the HX Stomp in order to eliminate the annoying modal switching that one has to do on the stomp currently.

 

( or maybe i'm missing some hidden feature ) 

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1 hour ago, d0stenning said:

Maybe an economy unit that simply delegates editing tasks to an iOS device but wth a "tiny" screen for emergency lat minute editing would be the answer. Kind of like Stomp i guess - but with scribble strips too?

Perhaps public sentiment has changed since DigiTech's iPB-10, but "headless" modelers that require a Mac/PC/iOS/Android editor to access a large portion of its functionality have traditionally been seen as... let's say risky. That said, plenty of live rackmount mixers are now headless, so maybe things are changing. There's an up-and-coming small venue in Encino/Tarzana without a front of house at all—everything is controlled by the sound guy walking around with an iPad, controlling a single stagebox/rack mixer to the left of the drums.

 

I can imagine a headless Helix Floor the size of a Helix Control.

 

And then years later, Apple/Microsoft/Alphabet breaks compatibility and we're all stuck with doorstops. Until then, make sure your phone/tablet is charged!

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Personally Id rather see Line-6 throw their R&D in the "other" direction and make a $2500-3000.00 unit with the best of Helix, Kemper and Axe FX III built into the box. 

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Heck, I want to go the other way. I’m your customer for the 18 switch 3 SHARC version with 6 FX Loops....

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11 hours ago, Digital_Igloo said:

Perhaps public sentiment has changed since DigiTech's iPB-10, but "headless" modelers that require a Mac/PC/iOS/Android editor to access a large portion of its functionality have traditionally been seen as... let's say risky.

...........

I can imagine a headless Helix Floor the size of a Helix Control.

 

Yes -  on reflection I kind of agree that maybe 100% headless is a step too far. So maybe something very minimalist - as is the current HX Stomp - but it needs more buttons than the stomp so that its less modal and more like HELIX Floor in operation.

 

so an "almost-headless" 'HELIX Floor Compact'  might be the ticket. I personally ( having used the Stomp ) could live with 6 stomps+scribble strips to keep things compact. 

That gives us for example 3 Snapshots and 3 effect blocks visible and accessible at all times. ( or 6 snapshots etc etc )

 

But as it is with the Stomp - a wonderful device sonically but i'd prefer to edit away from the floor - unless absolutely necessary in the last minute. 

 

I realise it must have been a hell of a challenge to cram so much into my Stomp - but ergonomic ( rather than block count or sonic ) issues are my main gripe with it these days. 

 

I *would* like to be able to save a block by being able to select an IR in an amp-cab model block instead of speaker model - in order to release a single extra block.

 

( but now we're mainly talking about the Stomp which isn't the question here ) 

 

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add a Midi CC Pedal to your stomp and put it on a small board.  Problem solved.

 

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I've mostly used the Helix in a dual rig setup. (Bass and guitar at the same time - Bass via instrument out to Amp and that to FOH and Guitar direct to FOH, backup mic separate). I'm working on a new project where I use the Helix for 2  paths for  acoustic duo effects and a path for a backup singer process.  From a footprint standpoint, I feel like the percentage of people using the I/O like I do is a minority. I don't play huge stages, etc, so when I've just going to use the Helix as just a guitar processor, it feels like its taking up a lot of real estate BUT the UI/scribbles etc  is so comfortable that feeling goes away during soundcheck. It'd be interesting to see what the form factor would look like by making an 8-10 switch layout, plus the treadle, a smaller screen, scribbles, and the power supply on a wall wart. Kinda like the HXeffects but a bit more. I tried the Gt1000 out of intrigue on its size and it seems more manageable" but that feels like a 499 product and not a 999 product. It also felt clostrophobic getting around it. 

 

I used an RP500 for a long time direct to FOH and had a separate full bass rig. That was extremely manageable and compact. I had to live with certain effect paths, obviously, but for a cover thing it was fine. It'd be interesting to see a form factor like the RP500 where you have a screen in the middle of the unit (where the parameter label is now on the RP) and some encoders (knobs) under the screen and a few footswitches on either side for up down/tuner/tap control, etc and scribbles on the bottom 5 footswitches. I'm not sure how much the PS is inside the Helix Floor but removing that to a wall wart could be looked at too, but I do love the fact I don't need one of those with the Helix now. 

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YES +1 ON WANTING AN HX-SIZED HELIX. Ignore the L6 apologist fanboys on here. I would 100% buy an HX-sized Helix with amp modeling. The HX Stomp is great, no doubt about it, but I want ~6 footswitches, not 3, and not 12 or whatever.

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How about an HX Stomp Plus? Basically an HX Stomp with more processing power.

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5 hours ago, frankencat said:

How about an HX Stomp Plus? Basically an HX Stomp with more processing power.

That would get my vote. For me, the Stomp form factor is great as part of a pedal board. 

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