Using Stompboxes With Dt Amps

[oscarguitar]

Hi,

 

I have had a DT 25 for about 18 months after many years of live Flextone 2 and Flextone 3 plus Floorboard "enjoyment". I changed to the DT25 not just because of the way it sounds but also for the simplicity to get away from the complexity and constant tweaking habit that I acquired over the years.  I have spent the last 18 months in tone heaven with my guitar plugged straight into the DT25. Plug in and play, very simple and rewarding.  For this reason I didn't get and don't want to get a Pod HD.  I do access the other amp models using DT Customizer occasionally but generally prefer to play rather than tweak these days!

 

However I thought I would try using a couple of pedals to add to the range of sounds I can get on the fly without having to bother with loads of pre-sets.  So I bought a BOSS OS2 (Overdrive Distortion) and a TC Electronics Flashback (Delay). I have put the Flashback in the effects loop and I'm very happy with the tone (pretty much neutral) and range of delays it can produce. A brilliant piece of kit. 

 

I'm having a bit more trouble with the overdrive/distortion and this is where I would like some opinions. It is hard to describe the results, but on clean channels it sounds quite thin and harsh and on the distorted models it doesn't seem to do much apart from add some faint overtones/harmonics.  I have tried loads of different settings to dial this out and I realise that tone is highly subjective. This could be just the way these type of effects sound (haven’t needed one before) and I'm sure the pedal itself is very good, for what it offers so this is not about the OS2, my question are:

1. Is it worth using an overdrive/distortion pedal at all with the DT amps since it’s possible to get some great overdriven/distorted tones from the built in models?
2. Do overdrive/distortion pedals work OK with digitally modelled pre-amps?
3. Has anyone on the forum found an Overdrive/Distortion solution that they use effectively with the DT Amps? If so what do you use?
4. I realise the an overdrive/distortion pedal should go in front of the amp, but has anyone tried one in the loop and if so what are the advantages/disadvantages?

Thanks in advance, all advice gratefully received.

 

Oscar

[phil_m]

I've used pedals with my DT-25 ever since I've had it. It reacts pretty much like I'd expect it to. I don't think you'd have good results putting an OD or distortion in the loop. As far as what I've found that works, I guess I haven't had any issues with any of my pedals not working. Currently, I'm using the Wampler Dual Fusion as my main OD pedal, but here's a list of other pedals I have on my board:

 

Black Arts Toneworks Pharaoh

Mooer Green Mile (a Tubescreamer clone)

Mooer Blues Crab (Marshall Bluesbreaker clone)

Fulltone Plimsoul

Mooer Pure Boost (essentially a clone of the Xotic RC Boost, using it as clean boost)

 

The DT-25 reacts in a similar way to my other amps, so I'm not sure why you're having problem. Maybe it is that particular OD pedal that you simply don't like?

[oscarguitar]

Phil,

 

Thanks for your reply.  What you are saying makes perfect sense.  I suppose that not having used pedal before I wasn't quite sure what to expect.  I suspect that it is the particular OD pedal that I'm not getting on with to get that "sound in my head". Interestingly when I had the Flextone 3 I treid that with an Ibanez Tubescreamer and didn't feel that added much that I couldn't get by selecting another amp model or tweaking the gain.  Since i had 36 presets on the Floorboard, that always seemed a better solution at the time.

 

I'll return the OS2 and keep looking for the Holy Grail! 

 

Thanks again.

[tomtom175]

For pedals this is the best f/x loop I've ever owned or seen in a shop Period,

by far,I've put a lot (15-20) of pedals in front too and  its amazing too.

I currently Like OD's,whas and compressors in the front everything else in the loop.

[Brazzy]

My DT50 Likes Pedals. Distortions into the front no problem. Here's a couple of DIY Tube Stomps I've been using lately.

 

[Riderboy]

I've had my DT50 212 for several years now and bought it because I liked playing straight into the amp just me and my guitar using just Voicing 4 with the gain control.  Later I bought a POD 400 and found it too damn complicated and didn't like the popping sound when changing to different modes/effects.  Everyone I talked to said to try the POD 500 it's better and less headaches, so I waited for a used POD 500 to show up on eBay.  While I contemplated buying a used POD 500, Line 6 announced the Helix system would soon be available but expensive.  So I thought why not just get a pedal board setup and that's exactly what I did.  I really like my customized pedal setup but I'm a little disappointed that my "boutique" amp isn't very compatible with "non-Line 6" external effects.  I mean the way my DT and pedals are now, it's OK but I think I need an amp with no Voicing period, because the Voicing choices are definitely altering the signal coming from the pedal board.  Maybe I'm over thinking this, but I'm leaning toward getting a "non boutique" amp having just Presence and Reverb as the only built-in effects and if it has a Master Volume or Gain that will be just fine.  Anybody out there having any similiar experiences?

[Fitzy7]

Riderboy i am having the same issue and can not find a solution. I went to Tom Lee music to try foot pedals for the first time. I tried the Big Muff on a fender tube amp because the store did not have a Line 6 DT25. The sound was just like the smashing pumpkins and other bands that i listen to from the 90's. I decided to hold off on purchasing the pedal and opted to try it at Long and Mcquade because they did have my DT25 that i could try the pedal on. I must say that because there is a gain setting built into the DT25 regardless of whether you are on the clean channel 1 or distorted channel 4 the big muff pedal did not sound at all like it did on the fender amp at Tom Lee music. The pedal actually sounded terriblw on the DT 25 altogether. Now i am curious if the DT25 sounds terrible with fuzz pedals because it has no gain free channels on it or am i missing something here? Is there a better way to use fuzz and other foot pedals on the DT25 besides plugging them into the input on the front and putting it on channel 1? I am no expert but i feel like because all 4 channels of the DT25 have a gain knob that can't be deactivates even in clean mode that this is what is causing the terrible effects on what should be great sounding fuzz pedals. Any suggestions on how to get better sound on the DT25 when using an analog effects foot pedal?

[Fitzy7]

Anyone still on this thread?

[sleepy91]

Fuzz pedals can always be a bit tricky with different amps (mid-scooped Fender vs Marshall etc). But the Dt25 with its different amp topologies (from Fender-y clean to gainy) should offer a platform that works with your fuzz. Unless you override the topologies (with MIDI or a Pod HD) and put some high-gain models in there.

[ts020572]

My advice would be: keep anything digital or keep anything analog until you hit the poweramp.

I have used analog overdrives or boosters with digital preamps,  it never sounded as good as with an analog (all tubes) preamp. 

[oscarguitar]

Long time since I started this thread! Since then I’ve been gigging the DT25 about 75 times and have built up a pedal board over the years with poly tuner, XP comp, hoof, D&M drive, Black Country Custom TI boost, mini TS in front with chorus, delay, reverb and clean boost in the loop. All true bypass.  I have 3x20 ft cable and the guitar cable. After feeling that the amp sounded increasingly like it had a blanket over it, and thinking a Hot Rod Deluxe might be the answer to my problems, I have been reading  up about buffers. 
So far I have switched my reverb (hall of fame) to buffered bypass and added an Emerson Concord buffer as the first box after the guitar. The difference is astonishing!  I’m still playing around with the position of the Emerson and may move it to after the hoof, but in terms of attack, dynamics, clarity and tone it’s a revelation. The British Crunch is finally crunchy!  I have been able to turn the treble and presence down and lose the ice pick that could dominate my sound making it harsh. The mids are layered with harmonics and the bass tighter and better defined. 
I did loads of a, b testing and compared with plugging straight into the amp, and I’m convinced it’s better than straight in. (Which is v odd). I think, but have no evidence for this, the the digital preamp in the DT25 needs a ‘full’ signal (100mv?) to work at its best, and even straight in with a 10 ft cable from single coils and a variety of humbuckers the amp wasn’t getting the best signal to do its stuff. 
Most boss pedals are buffered, their tuners certainly are, so if you are running boss (or Ibanez) you shouldn’t have a problem. But If like me you’ve gone down the true bypass route and you’re suffering from thin muffled tone, try a buffer. It might save you buying a new amp!