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Been a L6’er since the first red bean came out. 

 

I’m intrigued by the Helix LT. I like the idea of the Power Cab. I’m not keen on firing up my Protools Rig and studio monitors to play. 

 

Is there a way to run a stereo rig without having to buy a. 2nd Power Cab? Does L6 have any plans to make an extension cab or satellite cab for the Power Cab?  

 

This isn’t for gigging or sound stage, but to have a cool stereo rig. 

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Before getting PC+, I used two JBL EON610s for gigging. They sounded good, but never inspiring, maybe a bit scooped and harsh. I found they didn’t cut through the mix well, no matter how loud I turned them up. PC+ fixed both of these issues. I’m now getting the midrange I was missing and people are saying they can finally hear me. 

 

But I can now pair up those EON610s with PC+ to make a real nice wet-dry-wet setup. Haven’t gigged with it yet. But I might.

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The price for the 212 it’s insane.

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56 minutes ago, PierM said:

The price for the 212 it’s insane.

 

I agree whole heartedly. $1399???? I think Line 6 needs to go back to the marketing/pricing/sales board room and re-address.

The L6 PC+ 1x12 retail is $799.00.  

 

Logic would say, "well, we doubled what already existed so that doubled the price".... But that's ill logic. The brain (computer inside) already existed in the 1x12 PC+... The only thing that doubled was an additional speaker, additional plywood, some routing/cabling and a software update. Oh and an unnecessary increase in power to 500 Watts..... (Like who needs that????) Lest not forget doubling the weight. 

 

I could see the pricing coming in at like maybe $999 - $1099.... but literally doubling the price is outrageous!!!!

No let me throw this out as another down-side to L6's ill thought out pricing scheme. If the cost of the 2x12 is double the cost of the 1x12 PC+, I'd rather just get (2) 1x12 PC+ speakers. That gives me the "grab & go" options of, do I need to take both or just one??
At this price point, you're better off with (2) 1x12's that gives you more options.... If the 212 came in around $999 - $1099, then yeah.. those that WANT stereo, it's a no brainer.... 

 

From a consumer stand point you've not given the consumer any reason to want the PC212+ 

L6 - PLEASE GO BACK TO THE BOARD ROOM and re-address the pricing of this. It's illogical from a marketing and consumer standpoint.

 

 

 

 

 

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The point is, for me, that well above 1000, I cant buy a digital amp (the value lifespan of these products its waaaay shorter than a real amp). I love modeling, I love the Helix, but for 1400 Im not buying a line 6 amp, no way. :)

 

Also, I paid 899 for a Fh1500, which is a complete system, dsp, W/D/W, variax support etc...

 

Let’s see if it’s just a spike. For now it’s a no for me. :)

 

 

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32 minutes ago, PierM said:

The point is, for me, that well above 1000, I cant buy a digital amp (the value lifespan of these products its waaaay shorter than a real amp). I love modeling, I love the Helix, but for 1400 Im not buying a line 6 amp, no way. :)

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree... This is one of the hardest justifications I have. When the Avid Eleven Rack came out it was the greatest thing since sliced bread... Coming in at about $799 (in 2010 dollars). I have one sitting in my side-car and has been used maybe three times for some recording sessions over the past 9 years.  I see Elven's going for like $150 now... Technology for that product, along with support has come and gone. I started with the kidney bean way back when it came out, plus a Flextone, and POD HD500... etc.. 

 

I have a 2005 Dr. Z Maz 38 (Point to point, all tube with a 1959 GE NOS rectifier) going into Doc's mixed speaker 2x12 Cab... The head retailed for like $1200 in 2005.... Guess what??? The few that are on Ebay are still selling used for that.  So to your point, I LOVE the idea of the HX Stomp w/ 2 PC Cabs... But what's the worth in 5 or 10 years??? For not much more I can look at a Fuchs ODS, Two Rock, or even more of the intense Dr. Z offerings now available. I've bought and sold more Line 6 gear over the years, but my DRZ's still are here.  Each time I've sold an L6 product I've taken a bath. My POD HD500 sold for $148 and that included shipping!! 

I started playing guitar, 36 years ago, I always used two amps... My first rig was a little Gorilla that sat on a Sears Amp, and I had a DOD PDS1000 delay & DOD Stereo Chorus feeding two amps. Probably sounded like crap, but to a 13 year old... it was pretty cool. :) Realistically my Doc Z's are amazing amps, but their shortcomings are (lack of effects loop) and you can't push delays and reverbs too much in front of the amps, plus they're picky about true-bypass pedals. So when I use them for recording (which I do...), most ethereal effects are added in post production.  But simplicity is key... My Dr Z 1x12 Carmen Ghia has two knobs.... Volume & Tone.... (and the tone does something magical...) 

 

The only consolation, and one of the product support managers for L6 stated in a video, is that, at this point, the modeling is pretty much there.... Meaning, they've captured and reproduced just about everything they feel they can at this point.... (especially capturing circuits and bulbs and point to point voltages...), that perhaps, aside from tweaks and new features, it may be true that at this point, the modeling is "as good as it's going to get." Thus values may hold. 

 

So, I just found that Sweetwater has bundled the 2 standard PC Cabs for $1080...  https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PwrCabBunA--line-6-powercab-bundle-a-2-by-powercab-112

Keep in mind those aren't the PC+ and honestly, I don't even know what IR's are... so probably would work best if I went the HX LT or HX Stomp route. 

I'm not bashing L6... I'm just not a complicated player, nor even play out any more...  I like the Stomp because it looks like a cool "toy...", I just cannot stand playing through my DAW monitors, I need real amp feel.... But man the cost of Stomp and two cabs combined is killer diller…. Especially to your point, Ebay & Reverb will be flooded with them in about 3 - 5 years dirt cheap. 

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Posted (edited)

And speaking of Dr. Z, This Reverb article, fresh off the 2019 NAMM floor just popped into my in-box: https://reverb.com/news/dr-z-weighs-in-on-modeling-tech-and-the-future-of-amp-design

 

"You can’t fight it," he says. "A musician will always want that piece of gear—that Stratocaster, that ‘59 Les Paul, that Marshall. That will always be coveted and that will always be of great value, but to survive, you’ve gotta go with the technology. And I’m not one to battle technology. Now, I can’t say that I’m such a mystic by saying that, but let’s face it—it’s got to do something if it’s going to survive. It’s got to evolve."

Edited by guitarboy_02451
adding quote

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I too am torn regarding PC212+. If it had been available when I got my PC+, I would have opted for the additional cost for stereo. But now, I'm not so sure. First I use IEMs for gigs, so I already have stereo in my ears, and PC+ behind me as a backline stage amp. Changing that to a PC212 wouldn't change anything for me except my stage footprint would be bigger and I'd be carrying a heaver amp (and I'm not that young anymore). If I really wanted stereo, I could use a wet-dry-wet setup with the two JBL EON610s I use to use for my live FRFR with PC+. I suspect that would be pretty cool. But bottom line I'm very unlikely to ever bother doing that. PC212 would give me stereo at every gig.

 

So to me the appeal of PC212 is that its stereo, will have no problem as an outdoor backline (I play quite a few of those each year), and can be used for lots of purposes. PC212 isn't like POD HD500 and many other digital devices that became obsolete and worthless pretty fast. Its a quality powered FRFR cabinet that can double as a powered 2x12 guitar cabinet driven by any good guitar preamp. So I think they might last longer than other digital gear.

 

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Reading through the Powercab 212 Plus manual, I see a couple of things that are intriguing:

  1. PC212+ has neodymium magnets and only 12 lbs heavier than PC112+, which has ceramic magnets and is 35 lbs.  47 lbs is still in the one hand grab and go ballpark, for me anyway.
  2. PC212+ allows you to have a different speaker/mic/IR per side.  I love V30s and Greenbacks mixed in a cab, like the Bogner Ubercab.  There may be a little more processing under the hood than just the "PC112+ brain".

I've been a 212 player for a long time with my Mesa cab.  I might be inclined to sell my two PC112+'s and buy a PC212+.  That would make a heck of a wet/dry half stack rig with my Mesa 212 and Fryette PS2, even if it never left the house ;)

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45 minutes ago, roscoe5 said:

Reading through the Powercab 212 Plus manual, I see a couple of things that are intriguing:

  1. PC212+ has neodymium magnets and only 12 lbs heavier than PC112+, which has ceramic magnets and is 35 lbs.  47 lbs is still in the one hand grab and go ballpark, for me anyway.
  2. PC212+ allows you to have a different speaker/mic/IR per side.  I love V30s and Greenbacks mixed in a cab, like the Bogner Ubercab.  There may be a little more processing under the hood than just the "PC112+ brain".

I've been a 212 player for a long time with my Mesa cab.  I might be inclined to sell my two PC112+'s and buy a PC212+.  That would make a heck of a wet/dry half stack rig with my Mesa 212 and Fryette PS2, even if it never left the house ;)

 

Couldn’t you do that now with your two PC + cabs?  Set one to one speaker and the other to another? 

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Yeah you can do that with two PC112s.  Bit more wiring and another trip for load in. Larger footprint, unless you stack them.

 

I'm not super serious about getting a PC212, but had it been out when I picked up the PC112's,  I probably would have gone dor the PC212,

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the 212 also has the porting on the back. I'm expecting some boomy tone on smaller rooms with plenty of wall proximity, especially when tilted.

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I just bought the 112 plus and the next day the 212 was announced. Thinking about returning it for it but not sure. WHy are you saying it is double the price of the 112 plus? Its actually $200 less than two powercab 112 plus. My biggest concern is everyone saying the 112 isn't loud enough when practicing with a drummer, etc. Has that been fixed? I preordered it at sweetwater but it is pretty pricey so not sure yet if it is worth it...

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