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Power Engine Vs Powered Loudspeaker

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Hi everybody.

 

I´ve been using the hd500 connected in the effects return of a full tube Marshall amp. I´ve been able to get decent tones out of it but nothing even close to what I can hear on my headphones.

 

The fact is that the amp is giving me a hard time and I decided to stop wasting money on tech´s and buy something else.

 

My first option is getting a powered loudspeaker (looking some electrovoice on a budget) so i can practice home/with the band and monitor myself on gigs. But I´ve been tempted for a long time on one of those Tech 21 Power Engine...

 

My question are (understanding that i want to reproduce my "headphone" tone the best I can while maintaining a credible guitar tone):

 

1-wich one could be the best option?

 

2-Is the powered loudspeaker going to give me a "real" guitar tone?

 

3-Is the power engine going to be different from what I get out of my marshall power section (bypassing the preamp is the same concept of the power engine)?

 

4-Wich output mode is usable on the power engine? studio/direct? or I have to think of it as the power stage of any other amp (combo power amp)? 

 

 

pd: trying both is not an option. I live over seas and don't have access to the equipment until i buy it.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

 

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well i hit the trigger on the PE60. In a couple of weeks i would tell you how is it working for me.

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anyone knows of good starting point patches on customtone for use with the power engine 60? i guess theres a lot of users that have the hd500/pe60 rig and want to know if theres any patches already adjusted for it.

 

thanks

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   Let us know how it goes with the PE60. I was considering getting one or maybe even two for stereo, but I also have a JTV & use a lot of the acoustic patches & wasn't sure if the PE60 would do a good job with those sounds. I ended up getting a Line6 L2T, which I like a lot for what I do, but it was a bit expensive. Still curious how the PE60 would match up with a JTV/HD500X.

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anyone knows of good starting point patches on customtone for use with the power engine 60? i guess theres a lot of users that have the hd500/pe60 rig and want to know if theres any patches already adjusted for it.

 

thanks

 

Hey...I have a pair of Tech21 Power Engines that I play a POD HD500 into using a JTV59.  Mine are both the original models with the Tech21 Special Design 12" FRFS speakers whereas today's model comes with Celestion Seventy80s.  Here are some things to know up front for you, from my 5+ year journey with them:

 

- First and foremost, make sure that your POD's (or any other digital box) output is set to studio direct.  yes, it makes a real difference.

 

- The EQ on the back of them is not to be ignored.  To me, the fact there IS a 3 band EQ on the back makes the whole "no preamp" idea a bit suspect, but I digress.  It does in fact come in handy to even out different environments.  I have mine set straight up most of the time, but in some rooms, the treble gets eaten up and that kind of thing, so it helps a lot.

 

- There will be days when your ears are tired, or your brain or whatever else and they won't sound good to you that day.  DON'T PANIC.  Come back the very next day and they will sound great.  Same thing always happens to me even in my analog tube rig.  I've even had what I thought was GREAT tone all saved and ready, only to come back the very next day and turn it on and say "Holy crap! What was I thinking" it sounded so bad.

 

- Above all else, adjust your expectations in this sense; These are 12" speaker cabs in an open back arrangement.  They will never actually be closed back 4x12s, silver bell 2x12s  or whatever else.  Your tone will in most ways SOUND the same in terms of the tone itself, but it won't feel the same at times because it just can't move the same amount of air.

 

- Did I mention EQ is your friend?  Not only on the back of the PE60, but the EQ units in the POD make a huge difference.

 

- Always verify that what you hear coming out of the box matches your expectations of what you hear via the cans.  The same idea of moving air is applied even more stringently to your cans as they are little buggers.  Loud does not always equal tone.  Listen for the nuances and once you have them, the volume just makes them louder.

 

There is a guide that helps a lot with respect to the POD HD here:

 

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

 

Know it and love it if you want the most out of your gear.

 

- Lastly, and most importantly have fun. :D

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Hey...I have a pair of Tech21 Power Engines that I play a POD HD500 into using a JTV59.  Mine are both the original models with the Tech21 Special Design 12" FRFS speakers whereas today's model comes with Celestion Seventy80s.  Here are some things to know up front for you, from my 5+ year journey with them:

 

- First and foremost, make sure that your POD's (or any other digital box) output is set to studio direct.  yes, it makes a real difference.

 

- The EQ on the back of them is not to be ignored.  To me, the fact there IS a 3 band EQ on the back makes the whole "no preamp" idea a bit suspect, but I digress.  It does in fact come in handy to even out different environments.  I have mine set straight up most of the time, but in some rooms, the treble gets eaten up and that kind of thing, so it helps a lot.

 

- There will be days when your ears are tired, or your brain or whatever else and they won't sound good to you that day.  DON'T PANIC.  Come back the very next day and they will sound great.  Same thing always happens to me even in my analog tube rig.  I've even had what I thought was GREAT tone all saved and ready, only to come back the very next day and turn it on and say "Holy crap! What was I thinking" it sounded so bad.

 

- Above all else, adjust your expectations in this sense; These are 12" speaker cabs in an open back arrangement.  They will never actually be closed back 4x12s, silver bell 2x12s  or whatever else.  Your tone will in most ways SOUND the same in terms of the tone itself, but it won't feel the same at times because it just can't move the same amount of air.

 

- Did I mention EQ is your friend?  Not only on the back of the PE60, but the EQ units in the POD make a huge difference.

 

- Always verify that what you hear coming out of the box matches your expectations of what you hear via the cans.  The same idea of moving air is applied even more stringently to your cans as they are little buggers.  Loud does not always equal tone.  Listen for the nuances and once you have them, the volume just makes them louder.

 

There is a guide that helps a lot with respect to the POD HD here:

 

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

 

Know it and love it if you want the most out of your gear.

 

- Lastly, and most importantly have fun. :D

 

 

thanks a lot! 

 

I know what you mean:

 

- There will be days when your ears are tired, or your brain or whatever else and they won't sound good to you that day.  DON'T PANIC.  Come back the very next day and they will sound great.  Same thing always happens to me even in my analog tube rig.  I've even had what I thought was GREAT tone all saved and ready, only to come back the very next day and turn it on and say "Holy crap! What was I thinking" it sounded so bad.

 

my every other practice nightmare

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I used to own a PE60 2x12 back in the POD XT Live days. I wouldn't exactly call it Full Range considering they had a pair of Celestion 70 80's & no tweeter.  They are good powered cabs but will require a bit of tweaking and there will be a discrepancy between your headphone sound and live sound.  There are a few schools of thought in terms of whether to use Studio or Combo output mode....... I would start with studio but definitely experiment with the Combo mode and trust your ears.

 

I eventually moved to the Atomic FRFR 50 (50watt tube power amp closed back 12" & Tweeter)  Gave me a much punchier sound plus i was was able to use Variax acoustic tones which i couldn't do with the PE60 (I also jumped to HD500 at this time....)

 

Now, since we upgraded our PA i go direct in (and use in-ear monitoring) couldn't be happier with FOH tone. If I were to go the powered cab route now it would definitely be the line 6 stage source series.....

 

my 2 cents..... hope it helps.....

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thanks a lot! 

 

I know what you mean:

 

- There will be days when your ears are tired, or your brain or whatever else and they won't sound good to you that day.  DON'T PANIC.  Come back the very next day and they will sound great.  Same thing always happens to me even in my analog tube rig.  I've even had what I thought was GREAT tone all saved and ready, only to come back the very next day and turn it on and say "Holy crap! What was I thinking" it sounded so bad.

 

my every other practice nightmare

I look at it like this... If I am playing for myself only then I have to accept I am picky as hell and I'll chase tone the rest of my days. If on the other hand I am playing in a band it really doesn't matter half as much as I think it should because the audience is happy with half way decent (and many times very buzzed) and believable tone so close is good enough.

 

Adjust as necessary and enjoy the ride because what we do is unique and extremely cool.

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So, is there a consensus on how accurate the power engine 60T is? I've had mine for years, and it's treated me well so far.I considered building a hinged back for it, because the tone changes a lot based on how far away it is from the wall.

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So, is there a consensus on how accurate the power engine 60T is? I've had mine for years, and it's treated me well so far.I considered building a hinged back for it, because the tone changes a lot based on how far away it is from the wall.

 

If there was consensus on any guitar gear, there wouldn't be forums! :wacko:

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Yes, wonderful. In the context of this thread, with reference to the newer PE60, has anyone compared the accuracy of the older versions with tweeter and T21 speaker?

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Yes, wonderful. In the context of this thread, with reference to the newer PE60, has anyone compared the accuracy of the older versions with tweeter and T21 speaker?

 

I wish I could do that very thing.  I'd forgotten about those...what'd they call them, the Wedgewood or some such?

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That would be the PE60T. You're thinking of the Bronzewood, which was thEir acoustic amp. The 60T was marketed as an extension for the Bronzewood, and the regular 60 went with the Trademark.

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I used to own a PE60 2x12 back in the POD XT Live days. I wouldn't exactly call it Full Range considering they had a pair of Celestion 70 80's & no tweeter.  They are good powered cabs but will require a bit of tweaking and there will be a discrepancy between your headphone sound and live sound.  There are a few schools of thought in terms of whether to use Studio or Combo output mode....... I would start with studio but definitely experiment with the Combo mode and trust your ears.

 

I eventually moved to the Atomic FRFR 50 (50watt tube power amp closed back 12" & Tweeter)  Gave me a much punchier sound plus i was was able to use Variax acoustic tones which i couldn't do with the PE60 (I also jumped to HD500 at this time....)

 

Now, since we upgraded our PA i go direct in (and use in-ear monitoring) couldn't be happier with FOH tone. If I were to go the powered cab route now it would definitely be the line 6 stage source series.....

 

my 2 cents..... hope it helps.....

 

Just to know, since you have a PA and  go direct in (and use in-ear monitoring), so what is the use of Atomic FRFR 50

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Hey...I have a pair of Tech21 Power Engines that I play a POD HD500 into using a JTV59.  Mine are both the original models with the Tech21 Special Design 12" FRFS speakers whereas today's model comes with Celestion Seventy80s.  Here are some things to know up front for you, from my 5+ year journey with them:

 

- First and foremost, make sure that your POD's (or any other digital box) output is set to studio direct.  yes, it makes a real difference.

 

- The EQ on the back of them is not to be ignored.  To me, the fact there IS a 3 band EQ on the back makes the whole "no preamp" idea a bit suspect, but I digress.  It does in fact come in handy to even out different environments.  I have mine set straight up most of the time, but in some rooms, the treble gets eaten up and that kind of thing, so it helps a lot.

 

- There will be days when your ears are tired, or your brain or whatever else and they won't sound good to you that day.  DON'T PANIC.  Come back the very next day and they will sound great.  Same thing always happens to me even in my analog tube rig.  I've even had what I thought was GREAT tone all saved and ready, only to come back the very next day and turn it on and say "Holy crap! What was I thinking" it sounded so bad.

 

- Above all else, adjust your expectations in this sense; These are 12" speaker cabs in an open back arrangement.  They will never actually be closed back 4x12s, silver bell 2x12s  or whatever else.  Your tone will in most ways SOUND the same in terms of the tone itself, but it won't feel the same at times because it just can't move the same amount of air.

 

- Did I mention EQ is your friend?  Not only on the back of the PE60, but the EQ units in the POD make a huge difference.

 

- Always verify that what you hear coming out of the box matches your expectations of what you hear via the cans.  The same idea of moving air is applied even more stringently to your cans as they are little buggers.  Loud does not always equal tone.  Listen for the nuances and once you have them, the volume just makes them louder.

 

There is a guide that helps a lot with respect to the POD HD here:

 

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

 

Know it and love it if you want the most out of your gear.

 

- Lastly, and most importantly have fun. :D

 

 

So what are your exact outut settings?

I've been using this with my Power Engine:

 

Unbalanced Output Switch: Amp

Output Mode Switch: Live

Preset Setting: Live, ComboAmp

1/4" guitar cable to amp.

 

Is this not the preferred way to run with a Tech 21 PE 60 (celestion speaker)

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So what are your exact outut settings?

I've been using this with my Power Engine:

 

Unbalanced Output Switch: Amp

Output Mode Switch: Live

Preset Setting: Live, ComboAmp

1/4" guitar cable to amp.

 

Is this not the preferred way to run with a Tech 21 PE 60 (celestion speaker)

 

Studio direct out L/R into 1/4" cables to two PE60s.  As far as preferred way, this I cannot say for anyone but me.

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Hmm, never thought of that. I will try it when I get home.

 

Studio direct out L/R into 1/4" cables to two PE60s.  As far as preferred way, this I cannot say for anyone but me.

So when you say "Direct" do you mean the Unbalanced Output Switch set to "Line". Just want to make sure I have the terms correct. :)

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Hmm, never thought of that. I will try it when I get home.

 

So when you say "Direct" do you mean the Unbalanced Output Switch set to "Line". Just want to make sure I have the terms correct. :)

Yes sir, line NOT amp.

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Just to know, since you have a PA and go direct in (and use in-ear monitoring), so what is the use of Atomic FRFR 50

Sold it! :-)

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Yes sir, line NOT amp.

Gave this a try last night and I do like it better than the AMP/LIVE output setting.

 

Glad I took a look at the thread. Thanks!

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Gave this a try last night and I do like it better than the AMP/LIVE output setting.

 

Glad I took a look at the thread. Thanks!

The thing to know about the amp setting is that it tries to compensate for the non Full Range Full Spectrum (FRFS) nature of guitar amps whose sound is focused largely towards the midrange.  As such, to me it always sounds like a blanket has been thrown oever my sound if I select "Amp" as opposed to "Line".

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Well I´m having some trouble with my pod right now but I´ll share my first toughts on the PE 60:

 

 

First I´ll say that the reason for buying this "amp" is to monitor myself on stage while going direct to PA from the Pod HD.

 

1-This hing is LOUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. On my house I cant go past 9 o'clock on the PE + 12 o'clock on the Pod without unleashing my wife´s rage. Gigs or band rehearsal with crazy drummer? No problem. 

 

2- This is not FRFR. This will not reproduce your headphone tone.

 

3- You can use the direct/studio output mode and get DECENT tones. Very different in feel and response of what you hear on your headphones... but usable.

 

4- You´ll need to use the Eq on the PE. I had to cut a lot on Bass and Mids to get a usable sound. I have a very crisp, rich and articulate clean sound that with all eq pots set on flat on the PE sound very dark and boomy.

 

5- You can get better tones out of the PE than the ones you've dialed to use for PA or headphone practice...so its a question of what are you using it for. If its only for monitoring (like me) you can get your already dialed tones to sound DECENT ...maybe Good nut not great. If youre planning on using it as your main "sound" generator you´ll have to dial some new tones and even check other output modes (combo power amp for example).

 

I guess an speaker change to something less midrange oriented could be a good upgrade... however I´m not sure of this because the guitar itself is very  midrange oriented.

 

Is this a HUGE and ENORMOUS improvement from the tone i was getting of my tube amp fx return? NO. But this thing is light and my 35 years old back would appreciate it. As a matter of fact i´m getting a good stereo sound with the PE and my amp.... not that I´m planning bringing both to rehearsal/gigs but is nice to jam at home.

 

Conclusion: I´m kinda disappointed. I was hoping more "transparency".

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For what It's worth.. I Just picked up a Trademark 30 today. I ran my L/Mono to the Return on the FX Loop on it, and it sounds freaking awesome. Just like a lower watt PE60. For the gigs I do, It'll cut just fine. Guitar is always mic'ed. This Friday will be the test.. Though I did do our practice today with it and it worked great. Such an awesome tool going direct into the amp, as well. Can't wait to mess around with it for recording. Did I mention It's something like 15 lbs?

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Well I´m having some trouble with my pod right now but I´ll share my first toughts on the PE 60:

 

 

First I´ll say that the reason for buying this "amp" is to monitor myself on stage while going direct to PA from the Pod HD.

 

1-This hing is LOUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. On my house I cant go past 9 o'clock on the PE + 12 o'clock on the Pod without unleashing my wife´s rage. Gigs or band rehearsal with crazy drummer? No problem. 

 

2- This is not FRFR. This will not reproduce your headphone tone.

 

3- You can use the direct/studio output mode and get DECENT tones. Very different in feel and response of what you hear on your headphones... but usable.

 

4- You´ll need to use the Eq on the PE. I had to cut a lot on Bass and Mids to get a usable sound. I have a very crisp, rich and articulate clean sound that with all eq pots set on flat on the PE sound very dark and boomy.

 

5- You can get better tones out of the PE than the ones you've dialed to use for PA or headphone practice...so its a question of what are you using it for. If its only for monitoring (like me) you can get your already dialed tones to sound DECENT ...maybe Good nut not great. If youre planning on using it as your main "sound" generator you´ll have to dial some new tones and even check other output modes (combo power amp for example).

 

I guess an speaker change to something less midrange oriented could be a good upgrade... however I´m not sure of this because the guitar itself is very  midrange oriented.

 

Is this a HUGE and ENORMOUS improvement from the tone i was getting of my tube amp fx return? NO. But this thing is light and my 35 years old back would appreciate it. As a matter of fact i´m getting a good stereo sound with the PE and my amp.... not that I´m planning bringing both to rehearsal/gigs but is nice to jam at home.

 

Conclusion: I´m kinda disappointed. I was hoping more "transparency".

Is your amp/line switch on your POD set to line?

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Is your amp/line switch on your POD set to line?

 

yes, line.

 

I want to be clear... the amp does its job and, for what is worth, i think is a good piece. I´m keeping it... just wished it would be more "transparent" (as far as an open back 1x12 can be). 

 

To be honest i´m loving the stereo tones i can get when paired to my tube amp via the fx loop... dont know why (on its own the tube amp + direct out sound bad).... its maybe just the stereo image that makes the diference.

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For what It's worth.. I Just picked up a Trademark 30 today. I ran my L/Mono to the Return on the FX Loop on it, and it sounds freaking awesome. Just like a lower watt PE60. For the gigs I do, It'll cut just fine. Guitar is always mic'ed. This Friday will be the test.. Though I did do our practice today with it and it worked great. Such an awesome tool going direct into the amp, as well. Can't wait to mess around with it for recording. Did I mention It's something like 15 lbs?

 

Those Trademark amps are pretty excellent in their own right too, BTW.  I had a Trademark 10, but I sold it and now wish I hadn't.  Stupid.

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I own the power engine 60 as well. I found some great tones between my HD500 and my Fender Mustang Floor. Specifically going for a Bonamassa type tone with my LP's. The stock Celestion 70/80 wasnt horrible, but it was mega ice picky! SO, like my other 212 combo amp, I changed out the stock speaker to an EMINENCE CANNABIS REX!!! The WEED speaker! As with my other amps, pure tonal bliss for me. Ive tried so many other speakers, and I keep coming back to the REX for its smooth tone, and even, full bottom end. Speaker change out was a breeze with Tech 21's ingenious method (That little hole in the bottom left of the back of the Cab is a punch hole. Take a screw driver, and push through. The whole grill cloth and board comes out on its own plank and reattaches to the velcro on the cab. Changed my speaker in literally 4 minutes.

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Forgot to mention that I use this twice a week for church and everyday for personal play and practice. Light weight and looks fantastic. Get yours today at your participating dealer, just $19.95! Thats right jus......kiddin.

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I just want to re-do my "review" on the PE60. I no loger use the HD as a modeler but with my new rig the PE60 sounds just fantastic. Not major EQ tweaks needed  to use the tones that sound good also with headphones... not sure if it has to do with different internal eq for the headphone / 1/4" outs on the devices, but for me this amp does its job wonderful.

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