djib Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Hello, I came across an unexpected behavior on the HX-Stomp, and I don't know how to work around it. I have a Wah with auto-engage configured. If I switch snapshot whilst the Wah is engaged, the Wah has a reversed behavior on the newly selected snapshot: it is disabled in any position but heel down. I have tried messing with the parameters but without success. Any idea how to work around that issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Global Settings > Preferences > Snapshot Edits By default that should be set to "recall"... try changing it to "discard" and see if it makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djib Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 7 hours ago, codamedia said: Global Settings > Preferences > Snapshot Edits By default that should be set to "recall"... try changing it to "discard" and see if it makes a difference. I have tried that an unfortunately it doesn't work. Thanks for the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4TH Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I've had this same problem for a while now, (HX effects) and still haven't found a cure for it. I also find the behaviour of the wah to be odd in other areas. On one snapshot it will work, but then I switch to another snapshot, with the wah assigned to that snapshot also, and it will only be ON in the heel position. Out of interest, what EXP input do you have your expression/wah plugged into? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 On 7/7/2019 at 1:11 AM, djib said: Hello, I came across an unexpected behavior on the HX-Stomp, and I don't know how to work around it. I have a Wah with auto-engage configured. If I switch snapshot whilst the Wah is engaged, the Wah has a reversed behavior on the newly selected snapshot: it is disabled in any position but heel down. I have tried messing with the parameters but without success. Any idea how to work around that issue? Go to Global Settings>EXP Pedals and make sure the EXP Position parameter is set to Per Snapshot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 On 7/7/2019 at 2:11 AM, djib said: Hello, I came across an unexpected behavior on the HX-Stomp, and I don't know how to work around it. I have a Wah with auto-engage configured. If I switch snapshot whilst the Wah is engaged, the Wah has a reversed behavior on the newly selected snapshot: it is disabled in any position but heel down. I have tried messing with the parameters but without success. Any idea how to work around that issue? Try phil_m's suggestion first! Not sure if this is the issue but you can try the following: Go to the snapshot that is not behaving as expected Highlight the wah block and go to Global --> 'Bypass Assign' Turn the 'Switch' parameter to the expression pedal input you are using. The default is "EXP1". Check and see if the 'Position' parameter is somewhere around 5% or lower(activates as pedal is moved towards toe-down position) or wherever you have it set for the snapshot that behaves the way you like. Match the 'Position' setting to be the same as the snapshot where it is working the way you want it to. Save the snapshot As others have indicated going forward make sure your global settings for snapshots (retain, discard) are set the way you like them as well as the behavior for the expression pedal. This will get you consistent and anticipated results creating and switching between presets and snapshots. Also, since the wah's 'Position' parameter can't be assigned to snapshots it should be the same in every snapshot if the global setting phil_m pointed out is set correctly. If it is then I would also double-check your settings for 'Min' and 'Max' on the wah and make sure they are not funky. If all else fails it might be worth reinstalling the firmware. Save presets first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djib Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 On 7/9/2019 at 9:19 PM, C4TH said: I've had this same problem for a while now, (HX effects) and still haven't found a cure for it. I also find the behaviour of the wah to be odd in other areas. On one snapshot it will work, but then I switch to another snapshot, with the wah assigned to that snapshot also, and it will only be ON in the heel position. Out of interest, what EXP input do you have your expression/wah plugged into? The problem you describe is exactly the one I am having. I find it happens only if you switch snapshot with the wah being auto-engaged. I have a Boss FV-500H. On 7/9/2019 at 9:22 PM, phil_m said: Go to Global Settings>EXP Pedals and make sure the EXP Position parameter is set to Per Snapshot. Yes, I tried all three settings for that parameter without luck. On 7/10/2019 at 12:35 AM, HonestOpinion said: Try phil_m's suggestion first! Not sure if this is the issue but you can try the following: Go to the snapshot that is not behaving as expected Highlight the wah block and go to Global --> 'Bypass Assign' Turn the 'Switch' parameter to the expression pedal input you are using. The default is "EXP1". Check and see if the 'Position' parameter is somewhere around 5% or lower(activates as pedal is moved towards toe-down position) or wherever you have it set for the snapshot that behaves the way you like. Match the 'Position' setting to be the same as the snapshot where it is working the way you want it to. Save the snapshot As others have indicated going forward make sure your global settings for snapshots (retain, discard) are set the way you like them as well as the behavior for the expression pedal. This will get you consistent and anticipated results creating and switching between presets and snapshots. Also, since the wah's 'Position' parameter can't be assigned to snapshots it should be the same in every snapshot if the global setting phil_m pointed out is set correctly. If it is then I would also double-check your settings for 'Min' and 'Max' on the wah and make sure they are not funky. If all else fails it might be worth reinstalling the firmware. Save presets first. I have no parameter assigned to the snapshot for that wah, so I guess it should behave exactly the same way in all snapshots. I should also mention that all snapshots behave as expected if I let the auto-engage enough time to disable the wah before switching preset. It's switching while the wah is auto-engaged that messes everything. @codamedia 's tip to set snapshot to "discard" works as a workaround, but I have to press the snapshot twice. If I switch to snaphot 1 and get the inverted auto-engaged state, pressing snapshot 1 again fixes the issue. Moving to another preset and back also works as a workaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 22 hours ago, djib said: The tip to set snapshot to "discard" works as a workaround, but I have to press the snapshot twice. If I switch to snaphot 1 and get the inverted auto-engaged state, pressing snapshot 1 again fixes the issue. That has to be a bug.... I can't imagine it was designed with that intention. If I were you I would prepare a recipe to re-create this problem with a simple patch and submit it to Line 6. If they can reproduce it... it's the first step to correcting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipelineaudio1 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 I'm having this exact problem. The auto engage is a toggle not an "on above this value and off below this value" Same issue as the Positive Grid stuff has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 I dont have the exact Helix family units your talking about, but reading through the notes this popped in my head. What do you have the auto engage bypass time set to? I know its typically less than 500ms, but is it possible your changing snapshots before that counter has disengaged and its confusing the switching state/control settings? I agree sounds like a bug of some sort. But I have my wahs set to autoengage, usually at 0ms off response time, and toe down as off. I have the full helix, but havent ever noticed this issue either with the on board exp predal or my mission engineering one in EXP 1 input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theElevators Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 4 hours ago, themetallikid said: I dont have the exact Helix family units your talking about, but reading through the notes this popped in my head. What do you have the auto engage bypass time set to? I know its typically less than 500ms, but is it possible your changing snapshots before that counter has disengaged and its confusing the switching state/control settings? I agree sounds like a bug of some sort. But I have my wahs set to autoengage, usually at 0ms off response time, and toe down as off. I have the full helix, but havent ever noticed this issue either with the on board exp predal or my mission engineering one in EXP 1 input. I have had this happen to me several times where the wah gets flipped. It's not a consistent bug, but is still there. Here's how to overcome it: 1. Un-select snapshot bypass for the the wah. This means that snapshots do not control if the wah is on/off. You already use the wah position to control if it's on/off. 2. If you want to have some of your snapshots to have the wah block off, simply select the mix...... [100%] parameter to be controlled by the snapshot selection. Now pick your snapshot and set the mix at 0%. So you do not disable the wah block, you simply make it inaudible. End-result -- wah is auto-engaged. Some snapshots will not have the wah sound. The wah will be on, but the mix level will be 0%, which is equivalent to it being off. For all my auto-engaged wah presets, I have an "emergency" snapshot where the wah is mixed ot 0%, in case something goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipelineaudio1 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Hey thanks theElevators, I'll see if your trick works out for me! This is actually a pretty common bugaboo that a lot of software developers mess up. Pretty sure Positive grid makes it all toggle on purpose as its more like a live pedalboard, but its a PITA. The way the manual reads, allegedly if MIDI controls the wah on/off, its actually on/off, not a toggle so it might actually work. I'm going to go pick up a MIDI cable today from guitarcenter to try that. There's also a chance the CV out to a EXP in could fix this as well. We actually created an Auto Engage plugin a few years ago as a workaround for people who's plugins messed this up. Hoping line 6 fixes this, or gives it as an option (lots of good reasons for it to be toggle instead as well, its not always a bug) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theElevators Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, pipelineaudio1 said: Hey thanks theElevators, I'll see if your trick works out for me! This is actually a pretty common bugaboo that a lot of software developers mess up. Pretty sure Positive grid makes it all toggle on purpose as its more like a live pedalboard, but its a PITA. The way the manual reads, allegedly if MIDI controls the wah on/off, its actually on/off, not a toggle so it might actually work. I'm going to go pick up a MIDI cable today from guitarcenter to try that. There's also a chance the CV out to a EXP in could fix this as well. We actually created an Auto Engage plugin a few years ago as a workaround for people who's plugins messed this up. Hoping line 6 fixes this, or gives it as an option (lots of good reasons for it to be toggle instead as well, its not always a bug) Yup, it's doing block.Enabled = ~block.Enabled. If you have several things that affect the on/off status, things can get out of sync. That's why I like to minimize that chance and remove all the extraneous factors. Also I only have auto engagement of the wah in a handful of presets where there are frequent wah changes, where it's absolutely needed. Since doing the trick I explained, I have not had any occurrence of this bug. But being a programmer and not trusting computers, I always leave the cursor on the wah-block so I know if it's ever gets stuck/flipped. In a live situation, you can often simply not hear if you have a problem. For the same reason I color-code my obnoxious sounds with a different color of the footswitch, so I don't forget to exit that loud snapshot. Also, having the emergency snapshot to turn off the wah mix, in case it starts doing weird things is an option. But like I said, I have not had any issues yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipelineaudio1 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 I made a video today, trying to fix this issue by doing MIDI loopback. It definitely observes the correct polarity under MIDI, so hopefully Line6 can get this as an option with the auto engage function. Please see the video for details: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vr4ihix5usjy0zc/2021-07-25 12-07-12.mp4?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipelineaudio1 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 OK, so here is a pretty good workaround until Line 6 fixes it. Set the MIDI CC transmit to a minimum of like 60 https://www.dropbox.com/s/750xhpkcifzcd19/2021-07-25 12-25-58.mp4?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipelineaudio1 Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Please upvote this ideascale https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/On-off-option-for-wah-auto-engage-to-fix-snapshot-bug/1026321-23508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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