Sixstringsling Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have an old amp with 2 -12" celestions. I don't need the preamp at all...just using it as a speaker cab. Currently running thusly: guitar > hd500 > fx send > fx return on back of amp. Running effects loop in patch chain. Iirc outputs set to direct/studio. Line, not amp, switched next to gas pedal. Running amp models, cab sims, mic sims etc.... Sounds ok, not great, but ok. I've tried the 4 cable method....couldn't discern a real difference, but could've been doing it wrong. Guitar, pod, fx send, amp input, amp fx out, L mono pod, L out pod, amp fx return. Is there a better method? Thanks for any advice. SSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggravation Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Are you using the full amp models or the amp "pre" models? If it is the full, try the "pre" versions in stead since your combo amp is providing the power amp model and the real speaker... And when using the pre versions you still can select a cab on the amp page, it doesn't give you the same effect as the full amp with a cab which can be kind of dull when playing through a real power amp and guitar speaker/cab but it does give a bit of an EQ curve to the output to give the sound a touch of the flavor of whichever cab you selected. So, for example, A Blackface 'Lux Vib "pre" will sound a bit more like the Fender it is modeled after if you also select the 1x12 Blackface 'Lux cab. And instead of using the loop output try using the regular output and in the set up menu select Combo Power Amp as the output setting (on page 4/10 of the set up menu). And the most powerful tone shaping tool that is often overlooked: EQ! Put a studio eq just after the amp block and dial in a touch what ever frequency (or dial out) that might be too weak (or too strong)...experiment a bit and you will find you can really bring some life into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthHollis Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If you are not using the pre amp in the amp then there is no reason to use the 4CM. Here is where I would START. You are right on using the fx amp return. Use the Pre-amp versions, your amp is providing the power amp and the tone shaping that provides. Use the cab sims but use the combo amp output. Also, try using no microphone. If you are using more clean type sounds that sound good through your amp normally, then you may want to use no cab sims. If the cab sims and microphone are not being used then the output on the POD doesn't really do much. You said you have the FX loop in the POD but it must not be engaged. That is only needed for 4CM so just remove it because it's using up DSP for no reason. Use one sound that was good through headphones, then start playing with all the other stuff running through your amp until you get it to sound right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstringsling Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Thanks for the tips guys. Will fumble around with it this evening. I've not had success with Output setting at combo amp, or anything other than studio direct,,,,tells me I may have "operator error" taking shape! Side bar: Hollis1003?? Are you the (George) Hollis on YT? If so, that is a sweet setup you have with the 5150 III, and HD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstringsling Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Sorry fellas... What i'm calling "2-cable" method, I can't get to work (at all, no sound from celstions) w/o having the effects loop in the signal chain (within my patch). Just to make sure I am stating my setup properly.... Out of Guitar Into HD500 Out of HD500 Fx Send Into Back of Fx IN on old amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumblinman Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If you aren't using the FX Loop on the Pod, then just go straight out of the 1/4" output. You need to add an effects block assigned as FX Loop if you intend to use the loop on the Pod. If you are doing 2 cable method, you don't even need the Pod's effects loop. Just go: Guitar>Pod HD input>Pod HD 1/4" out>Fx loop return on amp. Be sure to set output mode to "Line" if bypassing the front end of the amp and just going into the fx loop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innovine Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The pod fx loop is pretty noisy, so my suggestion is to generally avoid it, unless you have a specific reason to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstringsling Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Didnt fiddle with it too long last night but..... Did run out of 1/4" of hd into amps return fx. Killed the effects loop in chain on patch. Switched output to combo amp.... Actually tried all the output options, and honestly that method didn't sound as good as using the fx loop in the chain of the patch (to my ears). Sounded fizzy and overly distorted, akin to clipping?? One part of the equation that didn't hit me until I had taken the effects loop out of the chain was my power monitors. I run those, xlr R and L and the effects loop lets me mix them away from the amp I suppose if I had a Mixing board to run everything through, that would handle that. Anyways, I really appreciate you guys helping me out. I'll continue to monkey with it. SSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthHollis Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yes, I am the George Hollis on YouTube. Thank you. Starting recommendations: Guitar POD (no FX loop) - Start with Pre Models and cabs with no mic 1/4" out (do not use loop) Output mode: should be Combo Pwr Amp (if you have an open back combo) or Stack Pwr Amp (closed back combo or cabinet) Just because you are going back into the fx loop of your combo does not mean you should use the fx loop in the POD. By going into the fx loop on the amp you are bypassing the pre-amp on the combo. The combo still colors your tone. The power amp, speaker and cabinet all color the tone. That's why I say start with bypassing those parts in the POD and letting the output mode re-color or re-EQ those. A 1x12 combo alone will never sound like a 4x12 cab, it physically cannot on it's own. If you use a 4x12 cab in the POD you will be simulating that but you need the output mode to re-EQ for a combo style speaker and cab. The most important thing is to try different things and listen for what sounds good to you. Little trick........... Put the looper in the front of your chain in the POD. Record yourself playing your favorite riff. Then you can just re-play that loop while you are messing with the sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthHollis Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Another trick is to save several different versions in 3-4 presets so you can just change presets to compare instead of changing on the fly. A - pre amp - cab sim - mic B- pre-amp no cab sim C - full amp cab sim D - full amp no cab sim I would actually write down the EQ settings on the amp and then transfer those over from pre-amp to full amp, then tweak from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstringsling Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Another question.... I use Power monitors, xlr r/l from HD. W/o a Fx Loop in the chain...(using the 2 cable method as discussed above), is there a way to effectively separate the monitors from the amp signal? I have no mixer. I use backing tracks through the monitors; audacity is my software/shareware program. Trying to keep the backing music through monitors only. With the 2 cable method (or at least the way i'm running it) everything runs through the 1/4" out and the xlrs out....my guitar playing, and the backing track music, are coming through the monitors and my amp at the same time. Edited: after reading my initial post I see I misrepresented how I was running my cables. I appreciate everyone's help! SSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggravation Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 If you want to use the effects loop return of an amp you usually have to have a 1/4 inch plug into the effects send of the amp even though you don't have a need for that send (since you aren't using the preamp section of that amp). So, to enable the return of the amp to allow you to play through the power section and attached speakers, just put a short unused cable into the send and leave the other end of it hanging free. This will enable the effects return circuit of the amp for you to send your Pod output into.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstringsling Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thanks Aggravation....been out of town, just getting back seeing your post. Will test that out tomorrow. SSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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