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HX STOMP Re-amping (Dry Signal)Level Adjustment

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It is great design that recording guitar dry signal for future re-amping when HX Stomp is used as USB audio interface.  USB input 5 port record the signal as below but I found there is no way to control the dry signal level comparing with normal processed signal is recorded (Output mail L/R level can be changed) . It is such a waste to record the signal level at -14.5db when we have 123db dynamic device. Please help to advise how to adjust(increase) dry signal recording level. Thanks

image.png.3482e046acbdf211133c4ff34bfaa704.png

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Just because a device has lots of headroom doesn't mean that using it all makes for a better recording. Once you've run this thru VST effects (like Native or some other amp sim) you'll likely have used additional amounts of that headroom. As I understand it, the possibility of digital distortion starts at 0db. IIRC, the recommended input level for Native is somewhere between -24 and -14db.

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That headroom can be shocking for somebody used to "just under the ceiling recording" and loudness wars veterans. It is proper however.
+11dBu full scale level is used to model devices and check them with various guitars. If you play using hammer you also have right to expect unclipped AD conversion. If you happen to have 20dB analog clean boost the headroom is not sufficient anyway.

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For re-amping purposes, you want that signal to be low. It's essentially at unity gain with the signal coming straight from your guitar. When you feed back into the Helix, or use it with an amp modeling plug-in, it will work correctly.

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I have the opposite problem.

One of my guitars seems to have way too much output and the signal incoming in USB Input 5 often clips.

Can this be related to the Z-input setting?

I usually leave it on Auto and it works perfectly, except with this guitar (btw I just got it back from my trusted luthier so I'm pretty sure the instrument is ok).

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This is also something I struggle with a lot. I have my guitar input set to  instrument level. When I record the di it’s way to hot. When I drop it the recording is perfect but the live signal is loosing gain (which is expected). Imho A DI level control is urgently needed.

 

regards Marco  

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Ouch! There is no pad in the Helix Stomp! No variable impedance neither. No info about "Line Level" impedance. :(

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??? Maybe that was misleading. Yes I can drop to line on the guitar input to reduce the di recording. But that would also change my wet tone and I like to record both at the same time......

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1 hour ago, zolko60 said:

Ouch! There is no pad in the Helix Stomp! No variable impedance neither. No info about "Line Level" impedance. :(

 

1 hour ago, mstoffel said:

??? Maybe that was misleading. Yes I can drop to line on the guitar input to reduce the di recording. But that would also change my wet tone and I like to record both at the same time......

 

Setting the 1/4” inputs to Line on the Stomp is functionally the same as enabling the input pad on the Helix. And, yes, the Stomp does have variable input impedance.

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1 hour ago, phil_m said:

Setting the 1/4” inputs to Line on the Stomp is functionally the same as enabling the input pad on the Helix. And, yes, the Stomp does have variable input impedance.

Sorry, my fault. The manual p.18 states "HX Stomp has an impedance circuit on its Main L/R inputs that affects tone and feel by loading your guitar's pickups as they would by an effect pedal or amplifier. A lower value will typically result in some high frequency attenuation, lower gain, and an overall "softer" feel. A higher value provides full frequency response, higher gain, and an overall "tighter" feel."
https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a4010c935bb66a4c0c44f/application/pdf/HX Stomp Manual - English .pdf
However the pad in Hx FL/RA/LT is 6dB what gives 17dB full scale vs 19dBu "line level".

BTW if the electic guitar exceeds 17dBu peak level I assume it has incredible hot active circut implemented and should be modded to conform to the standard levels.

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The guitar that has this problem is a Squier Telecaster with Seymour Duncan '59 humbackers, they shouldn't be that loud.. I don't understand.

26 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

BTW if the electic guitar exceeds 17dBu peak level I assume it has incredible hot active circut implemented and should be modded to conform to the standard levels.

 

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4 minutes ago, darshan said:

The guitar that has this problem is a Squier Telecaster with Seymour Duncan '59 humbackers, they shouldn't be that loud.. I don't understand.


IDK. When i connect classic PAF style humbucker (8kohm DC resistance) guitars to the Helix LT it is really hard to exceed -10dBFS peaks going direct.

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I also have passive  pickups (Instrumental SFty3-7).  When my input is set to instrument I get those levels in my DI signal:

 

image.png.d75f6af17f37650a9cfee4b9cde380df.png

 

Using my strad with a JB in the bridge:

 

image.png.0987f29ab9d112393bd6599d5b25068d.png

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4 minutes ago, mstoffel said:

I also have passive  pickups (Instrumental SFty3-7).  When my input is set to instrument I get those levels in my DI signal:

 

image.png.d75f6af17f37650a9cfee4b9cde380df.png

 

Well, as long as you're not clipping, you're good, but that is coming pretty close. The thing is, if you're clipping the DI signal, it also mean the signal feeding your wet tracks is also clipping. It means you probably need to set the input to line level. Given that you're using a seven string, I would imagine that your low B (or whatever you have it tuned to) is probably driving this.

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Yes you are right! But I dont want line level due to the changes it does to my wet sound..... Thats why I think we need a DI level setting....

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10 minutes ago, mstoffel said:

Yes you are right! But I dont want line level due to the changes it does to my wet sound..... Thats why I think we need a DI level setting....

 

But what I'm saying is if you're clipping the input, you're clipping it for both the wet and dry... The same A/D converter feeds both the wet and dry inputs. The input pad, or the line level setting, is the control you speak of. The whole purpose of the dry track (for the most part) is for re-amping. And you don't want to change the level of the dry signal you use for re-amping because you want to maintain the gain staging of the original performance.

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I hear you and it makes perfect sense. Maybe I have some basic misunderstanding here. My Question then is:

 

Since the recommended recording peak level  in general is about -12dB and plugins like Helix Native also work best on that range the only way to archive it is to use Instrument Level for the guitar input. But the amps sound best (at lease to my ears) on instrument level....

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6 minutes ago, mstoffel said:

I hear you and it makes perfect sense. Maybe I have some basic misunderstanding here. My Question then is:

 

Since the recommended recording peak level  in general is about -12dB and plugins like Helix Native also work best on that range the only way to archive it is to use Instrument Level for the guitar input. But the amps sound best (at lease to my ears) on instrument level....

 

The input for Helix Native should be representative of what's coming from your guitar. Generally, though, if the signal from your guitar is exceeded -12dB, you want to use the input pad. The Native manual says you should aim for between -36dB and -12dB for the input.

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