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shawndeveau

Jeezus H Christopher

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Fair enough @phil_m and you’re right, customers do come up with the wildest scenarios. In a previous job I managed all Infrastructure for a Tax firm I worked at and this included conference room technology. We out-sourced that but I saw first hand the programming that went into these control systems. Not fun. 

 

The end result is the Helix is a phenomenal product and I am certainly glad to have such a tool.

 

Cheers!

 

 

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On 8/4/2019 at 5:23 PM, codamedia said:

 

In fairness... I know what you mean but IMO, (trying not to get political) the race problem needs some addressing and the card is played appropriately and blindly discarded by others as much as it is over played... just saying :) 

 

 

Thank you. I was about to say the same thing only not quite as civilly as you. Well put and it's high time this issue stops being trivialized and that's not political at all. I'm sure that wasn't the author's intent but it was a good thing for you to point out it's a real issue that's been plaguing society for centuries.

 

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

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On 8/4/2019 at 6:09 PM, rvroberts said:

When friends ask me should they get a Helix, I have to check out their ability to deal with technology including computer literacy before I can answer.

And I got to say, I can't recommend Helix to more than half of them!  It would give them a great solution to their musical needs, but they'd brick the thing and never get decent tones either - or I'd become the local unpaid Line 6 support person - no way!

[snip]

So I think Line 6 could sell a significant amount more Helix products if this type of conversation was not happening.

So I'd address that if I was them. 

 

I assume that new Helix units will be sold with 2.80 already installed. Apparently part of the complexity of the update is getting a whole family of products in sync, and now that they're in sync, Line 6 says the updating process should be easier. So it sounds like for new users, Line 6 has already addressed the issues you raised.

 

For existing users, the complex update is the price of greatly increased functionality being added on to a unit that was designed several years ago. I've done updates that were a lot easier and updates that were a lot harder, it seems to relate to the complexity of the update itself.

 

I'm no software engineer, so I can't comment on whether the update process could have been easier. I assume there were tradeoffs involved, like weighing whether it was worth spending more time on streamlining the update vs. the existing user base's impatience with when the update was going to drop. But that's just speculation.

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3 hours ago, craiganderton said:

 

I assume that new Helix units will be sold with 2.80 already installed.

 

At some point, somebody will open a box that already has 2.8 loaded, yes... but inventory sits around, gets shuffled from one location to another, etc etc. You could easily buy one a year from now that's been collecting dust in somebody's stockroom, that still has 2.7 on it, if not an earlier version. When I got mine a couple years ago, it was at least one version behind. First thing I did was update...there's really no way to tell what you'll get at any given time. Somebody started a thread just  yesterday about their brand new purchase that came with 2.3, which is quite old at this point.

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I "just" ordered and received a Line-6 HX from Amazon. They push out stuff pretty fast over there, but my unit was dated 12/18 and had the version 2.5 OS in it. So the point I'm making is Cru is correct in that you will eventually see a Helix shipped with 2.8 in it yes, but it may not be very soon. 

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On 8/4/2019 at 7:23 PM, phil_m said:

Conceptually, the steps for doing the update aren't really all the complex. I think DI's instructions are very detailed simply because he's trying to cover all the bases. They are so long and wordy because he's outlining every single step along the way - like to the point of telling people how to sign into Line 6 Updater.

 

You have to do that, and not assume that everyone knows what you do. I wish "all" Doc writers and Engineers had that kind of thought process. And yet, I read here from many who did NOT read what they should have read and got caught in the "failed" part of the update procedure. If I had not read that beforehand (the KEY to most of this) I woulda freaked out too.

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I'm pretty sure those of us that have been around a while remember at least one other release that caused this kind of uproar with upgrading back around three years ago.  To Line6's credit they have streamlined and simplified the installation process a few releases back which is what we're using now which is TONS better than what we used to go through.  Clearly it's not bulletproof and could be improved.  But like the release 3 years ago that introduced Snapshots and a number of other key improvements, this appears to be a pretty complex release as well with the re-engineering of the Helix core which requires a much more complex process as it has to reformat both your existing presets as well as globals and backup formats.  I'm pretty sure going forward that the process itself will likely have less problems.

 

That being said, there are some ongoing problems with the Helix that I hope will eventually be addressed such as USB connectivity which is still a big part of the problems in both upgrading and interaction with HXEdit.  To be honest I'm not completely sure if there isn't an inherent limitation in the hardware that might be the issue, but IMO until that becomes more bulletproof, there are still going to be firmware installation issues with USB dropouts or malfunctions.

 

As for myself I'm waiting for the smoke to clear before I go about installing the update, and having been through three years of pretty much flawless updates I expect this one to go well when I decide to do it.  Some of that is due to experience with these updates but a lot of it has to do with keeping my PC and my laptop in top running order with my USB and other operating system elements operating predictably when called upon for something like this.  Reading through many of the complaints it's clear to me that's not the case with a lot of the users.  Quite frankly if this were my software product I'd probably invest some development time on a utility that can be pre-run from the PC or Mac to determine the state of all the communications and connections necessary as a first step and diagnosing problems before proceeding with the upgrade so users can go about getting their systems stable before attempting an update.  This would also be quite useful after the fact as a diagnostic if they're having HXEdit issues or problems with their patches or interface to their DAW due to version problems between the FW and drivers.

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On 8/4/2019 at 12:45 PM, cruisinon2 said:

User error, and/or a failure to follow instructions is responsible for more of life's ills than anything else. For proof I refer you to any of the numerous news stories of people driving down railroad tracks, or off the end of a pier because their GPS "told them to".

 

Truth is, basic reading comprehension and some common sense is all that is required to keep one's update experience from becoming a clusterf*ck. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, people don't like to follow instructions, and there will always be those who assume that they're so smart, they don't need them. How many threads popped up in the aftermath of the firmware's release expressing dismay at the "boot failure" error, despite the fact that it was WRIT LARGE that this is entirely normal? How many got stuck half way through because they didn't download the new version of HX Edit first? That's the FIRST friggin' step... it's a virtual certainty that most, if not all of those who fell into either of those two categories, probably didn't bother to read the instructions at all. I guarantee that there were a bunch of folks who had updated before without incident, who figured "I got this", and forged ahead blindly. Obviously this is not provable as nobody's gonna cop to it...but it's a safe bet.

 

Wouldn't matter if the update instructions were 3 sentences long, and simple enough for a chimp to follow...if you don't read them, you'll end up screwed, and it's you're own fault.

 

 

This is sooooo true..... 

Why do you think we have traffic signs and lines on the road everywhere.   

Yet we still get nailed for not following the rules there too.   Did the line move ? nope....Humans is the answer, and they never dissapoint when it comes to messing shattner up. 

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On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 7:14 AM, spikey said:

You didn't quote what I stated. What I said was... "Could it have been done better? Yes, just like nearly everything else after the fact."

There is a huge difference, but thanks for playing. 

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking, talk about a dishonest approach.  If you're going to quote someone and leave out parts of it to change the meaning, you're basically on the same level as a trash magazine.

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i didnt read any of the instructions. i just downloaded the installer and updated.. took 10 minutes. done.

 

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1 hour ago, otnooishphoo said:

i didnt read any of the instructions. i just downloaded the installer and updated.. took 10 minutes. done.

 

 

You didn't just make only one post here either, no matter what your user name is now. ; )

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On 8/6/2019 at 6:10 PM, litesnsirens said:

Exactly what I was thinking, talk about a dishonest approach.  If you're going to quote someone and leave out parts of it to change the meaning, you're basically on the same level as a trash magazine.

 

Good grief.  I clearly deliberately misquoted spikey as a way of implying that my edited version of his post would have been a more accurate statement IMO.  Nothing dishonest about it at, mischievous at worst, the original is hardly top secret, is it.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, spikey said:

 

You didn't just make only one post here either, no matter what your user name is now. ; )

 

 

No, i have made 11 posts here.  ???

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19 hours ago, Andy1175 said:

 

Good grief.  I clearly deliberately misquoted spikey as a way of implying that my edited version of his post would have been a more accurate statement IMO.  Nothing dishonest about it at, mischievous at worst, the original is hardly top secret, is it.  

 

 

There's a bit of a gap between your intention and your execution.   There's no question that it was deliberately misquoted but that's pretty much how you left it and I'm not just not sure how to interpret that as honest.  Agreeing with your delibertate mis-quote does nothing to right the ship.  Although the original is there to read IMO any time you strawman someone it's a dishonest approach unless it's an honest mistake. 

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On 8/7/2019 at 5:56 PM, Andy1175 said:

Good grief.  I clearly deliberately misquoted spikey because I'm a baby butthead that eats bugs on Mondays.

 

Yep, it was clear and deliberate all right. Now add to that poor form, and bad accuracy and you've nailed it, IMO just as I did here. Not funny is it.

 

 If you want to imply somebody is wrong, just quote them and imply it, but don't miss quote especially on purpose like my example above. That way everyone is CLEAR about what you are disagreeing on. BTW- I'm sure you don't eat bugs on Mondays. ; )

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I'm sure the OP is much happier now since if you look at the update instructions now, (2.71 to 2.81 edition), they are much smaller! :)

 

 

image.thumb.png.a7ae97019280bfc8a9175cd8c9c195b6.png

 

Of course, the 2.80 update instructions didn't just include just the instructions on how to update.

They also included complete descriptions of all the new models and enhancements, and this is what made up the bulk of the text.

 

If you were to strip out these along with "known issues" to leave just the instructions on how to update, they would have been much "shorter" too! ;)

 

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10 hours ago, spikey said:

 

Yep, it was clear and deliberate all right. Now add to that poor form, and bad accuracy and you've nailed it, IMO just as I did here. Not funny is it.

 

 If you want to imply somebody is wrong, just quote them and imply it, but don't miss quote especially on purpose like my example above. That way everyone is CLEAR about what you are disagreeing on. BTW- I'm sure you don't eat bugs on Mondays. ; )

 

To be fair spikey, I think most people would have no trouble at all understanding exactly where I was coming from.  And unlike your example, my redacted version of your post contains no childish insults.  

 

 

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 Oh so now you want to be fair Andy? I wasn't being childish (pot calling the kettle a bit here), I was being a bit obtuse, however, just to prove a point that you should never on purpose misquote a post to suit your wants or needs. I'm sorry if being called out on that upsets you. Moving on I promise to try and not offend you further unless needed. ; ) Peace Brother.

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26 minutes ago, spikey said:

 Oh so now you want to be fair Andy? I wasn't being childish (pot calling the kettle a bit here), I was being a bit obtuse, however, just to prove a point that you should never on purpose misquote a post to suit your wants or needs. I'm sorry if being called out on that upsets you. Moving on I promise to try and not offend you further unless needed. ; ) Peace Brother.

 

No need to opologise mate, I wasn't at all upset, just a bit surprised.

 

 

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