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spikey

Time to BULLET Proof the next upgrade for Humans

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I wanted to use certain "words" to describe those who won't read instructions but chose not to because it really would do no good, and it won't help in the next go-round either. sigh...

I also hate suggesting that we delay the next update (Dev time spent on the simpler update versus on the patch) because people can't or won't read instructions beforehand, but it needs to be done.

Time taken away from those who DID follow the instructions will have to just stand-by and wait for those who for whatever reason will not read the update information first, and then follow it.

My suggestion to Line-6 is to make the next update a "one-click" (One button) process where "everything is done for the humans" without the need of any thought process involved.

Don't add in "any" text information or update information because "humans" won't read it anyway. I mean they didn't read the update information so why would they read whats added?

My idea takes away any thought process needed in updating, and also allows Line-6 to then streamline the update without having to do any update information, manuals, etc.

No one reads anymore so why should they bother? Just download and punch the BIG RED "Human" DUH button is what it says, in multiple languages of course. 

Please send all proceeds on this idea to the Mental Health Foundation cause God knows they will need it. BTW- If you didn't read this I completely understand. ; )

 

 

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21 minutes ago, spikey said:

Just download and punch the BIG RED "Human" DUH button is what it says, in multiple languages of course. 

 

Please send all proceeds on this idea to the Mental Health Foundation cause God knows they will need it. BTW- If you didn't read this I completely understand. ; )

 

 

 

I'm fihting the urge to type "DUH!" into Google translate, just to see what it would spit out for various native tongues...

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1 hour ago, spikey said:

BTW- If you didn't read this I completely understand. ; )

 

Ho Lee crap fella, I nearly failed to read this!

 

Damn though you are right, Spikey. Not only do these folk not bother to read any info needed to perform a painless update (including DI’s fun bits), they then constantly post new threads stating “Line 6 firmware turned my expensive gizmo into a paperweight”. These jokers don’t even take a moment to check the forum for posts that might already cover the same issues. Nope, straight in with a “help me, I’m so important” and a “why didn’t Line 6 bother to check that their software will work with my individual computer system and set up” I have become worn out typing the same response to these bozos over and over again. Then you have to wonder if they will ever read your help comment. As for the multi-lingual thing, I resorted to a online translation service that seem to prove positive in at least 3 or 4 languages. Maybe English is not the new lingua-franca (ha,ha,ha).

 

I love your your idea of having some sort of “idiot button” (my term, not yours, in case the politically correct team are in), but sadly I would be doomed to failure - mainly because we are outnumbered by numpties.

 

Keep the faith bro.

 

EDIT:

You couldn’t do it legally, but it would be nice if you could get the Helix to deliver a mild electric shock to anyone who disregarded the install instructions - trouble is the place would light up with posts saying after the update Helix  was zapping users. 

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Despite the humour in this post, I think Line 6 needs to be looking at some move in this direction.

Helix is sold on the best, most user friendly interface.

Sounds - great - but so do a few of the others - maybe even possibly better sometimes?  

Features - well same - great - but not on their own there either.

User friendly is the standout - next to bang for the buck - which only applies compared to Kemper and Fractal.

When a lot of people have user related problems with a unit that's winning point is it's user friendliness, that's a problem!

And I personally find the instructions as they try harder to stop people making mistakes - look more and more intimidating.

No normal "Human" shown the update instructions is going to say that makes them feel confident - try it on your family.

So lets get real.

It's a PR exercise - and the exercise is keep and grow your user base.

Don't try to excuse a poor experience on the DUH factor.

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2 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

I'm fihting the urge to type "DUH!" into Google translate, just to see what it would spit out for various native tongues...

 

I lost the fight. Here’s a sampling:

 

French: DUH

German: DUH

Estonian: DUH

Swedish: DUH

etc.

etc.

etc.

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2 hours ago, datacommando said:

Keep the faith bro.

 

I will bro, I will. ; )

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4 hours ago, rvroberts said:

Don't try to excuse a poor experience on the DUH factor.

 

4 hours ago, rvroberts said:

And I personally find the instructions as they try harder to stop people making mistakes - look more and more intimidating.

No normal "Human" shown the update instructions is going to say that makes them feel confident - try it on your family.

 

I like convenience as much as the next guy, and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing in this life that can't be improved upon...but as long as we continue to gear everything to the lowest common denominator, not only will nothing get better, it'll likely get worse. What we shouldn't be excusing is stupidity and willful ignorance...but half the time not only are they excused, they're rewarded. On a long enough timeline, there won't be enough capable people left to do all the hand-holding and massaging of "feelings". When the world is entirely peopled by morons and emotional cripples, then what?

 

An end run around the "Duh factor" is not the answer. Brains and thicker skins are what we need. Once upon a time schools taught reading comprehension, critical thinking, and problem solving...now we teach kids how to pass useless standardized tests that a chimpanzee would roll his eyes at, and instead of "sticks and stones", it's "words hurt". Everyone enjoying the results so far?

 

Anyone armed with the least bit of any one of the aforementioned skills, will never be "intimidated" by a list of written instructions, regardless of length. But instead we've decided that it's not necessary to think, everything must be idiot-proofed, and the advent of the "McLawsuit" has ensured that the truly exceptional idiots who dumb their way past the filters, get paid for mind numbing stupidity. It's not gonna end well...

 

"Beauty fades... dumb is forever."

- Judge Judy ;)

 

 

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2 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Everyone enjoying the results so far?

 

All condescending and butthurt feelings put aside (not the intention of the thread as far as I'm concerned at this point) the statements you are making are all true Cru and I agree that's a better way, but you are speaking on what should be, and I'm talking about what is. There's no way around this and I don't like free passes either when the answers are there, but we don't get to make that decision, the all mighty dollar does. Let me explain. 

 

You can't "make" anyone learn/read/comprehend anything if they don't wish to, or just can't. And you cant lock them out of buying anything (if they have the funds or financing to buy it) just because they might not understand how to use or update it. So the only solution that I can see, is to either keep it hard for some or make it too easy for anyone to fail. Think "everyone" gets a medal these days... I don't like that idea any more than you do, but the bottom line is which idea sells more Helix units (or any unit), the harder one to update, or the easy one? That's where we are at. 

 

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8 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Once upon a time schools taught reading comprehension, critical thinking, and problem solving...now we teach kids how to pass useless standardized tests that a chimpanzee would roll his eyes at, and instead of "sticks and stones", it's "words hurt". Everyone enjoying the results so far?

I agree with your general points, but...No. No we didn't.  The US has NEVER been a bastion of critical thinking on the whole. It has never been widely taught in schools because it's actually not in the best interests of government to have a populace that questions. It's better for them to have a trained workforce, which is not the same thing. What "results" do you mean? The world is not yet run by millennials - those hosing it up are exactly those saying "kids these days" and "get off my lawn".

 

And though I also chafe at our over litigious society, it's unfortunate that "McLawsuit" is a term. That story wasn't what you think it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

 

Now, I agree - standardized tests are not the answer. I work in academia, my ex was a 5th grade teacher, my current is a college History prof., so I see the effects of mollycoddling the next generation. But it's also a more complex world, and they're now learning stuff in high school I didn't have until college. And most people I know of my generation and older aren't any better at critical thinking than younger folks. Well, beyond the fact that young people have less life experience and thus will be a bit...dense... in many ways. But then, so was I at that age. And so were my parents.

 

To the specific point, SOME updates simply can't be automated beyond a certain level; there are points that will require input. So these things will happen. Some will complain and threaten to go elsewhere. Some actually will. Those folks will realize that things are the same elsewhere. ...and on it goes...

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4 hours ago, jester700 said:

The world is not yet run by millennials - those hosing it up are exactly those saying "kids these days" and "get off my lawn".

 

As I do now, and my father and his father did, and on and on.

 

Quote

It has never been widely taught in schools because it's actually not in the best interests of government to have a populace that questions. 

That said when I was in Junior high and High School (no middle schools back then) there were multiple debates I was personally involved in, for a grade. And I was by no means in all of them. I disagree but then I graduated in 1975 from the "middle" of the country in "fly-over" land. I understand your meaning, but I was brought up with the idea that every government needs to fear its populace just a little or they will do whatever they want with no limits. Sorry I drifted the topic a bit- back to the update...

 

4 hours ago, jester700 said:

But it's also a more complex world, and they're now learning stuff in high school I didn't have until college.

My Dad was the best metal fabricator and welder I've ever known, all with an 8th-grade education. Back then it was called the school of hard knocks where you learned a trade by doing. Things have changed a bit. You can be " book smart" and still can't change a flat tire. Here, for example, a lot of them cant or won't or read a page of specific instructions 1st before they fly into updating Helix and then are upset when it fails. For some Its somehow the "makers fault" for making this too complicated. 


 

Quote

 

To the specific point, SOME updates simply can't be automated beyond a certain level; there are points that will require input. 

 

 

 

Yet I can update all of my OFFICE software just by inserting a user name & password.  Yes SOME cant, but most can, without using much thought process.

Maybe I am reaching a bit, but reading about the multiple Helix update failures that have occurred here (minus the Windows10 debacle and real hardware failures) and then assuming that IF they do this same kind of thought process & planning ahead in everyday life, says to me that there are many millennials that need this kind of automated software day in, and day out lol. ; )

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My school focused on problem solving and critical thinking in a way that, in my opinion, is not taught anymore.

 

I usually solve my own problems or find existant material that does and I think some of it came from that.

 

This most recent update was clearly a hairball brought about by L6's discovery of a way to improve their product in a way that they never originally envisioned. I don't know that there was an easier way to bring it about or I'm sure they would have done it.

 

No company WANTS a complicated update.

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Part of these "kids these days" disagreements - now and going back to at least Socrates - is that (as above) there are many examples of "I did/learned this, which kids don't do these days". But the truth is, many people didn't back then either. And many kids today DO. I see many first year college students who are sharp, critical thinkers already and can troubleshoot PC problems like a pro. I wish I could hire those right now. Others can barely make their iPhone apps work. As it has always been, since my dad & grandfather would regale me with tales of their friends who didn't have the brains of a stump...

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I don't often feel the need to comment - but on this one I cant resist.

 

I agree with everything all of you have said - but there seems to me to be something called common sense and problem solving that can't be taught.

 

I once had a colleague who had done a load of work, saved in on a floppy disk - and next day it wouldn't load.  He was meant to be my manager.  I asked the obvious question - it worked, yesterday - it doesn't work today - what's different?  He said he was using a different computer at the office yesterday - I suggested he might want to change desks and try in that computer.  It worked - then I told him to make back up copies and use mutliple disks.

 

It would be better if everything worked at the push of a Doh button - but sometimes you need to stop  and think - and even read the instructions.  It doesn't just apply to Line6 and Helix - it applies to everyhthing.

 

And in my opinion it works.

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38 minutes ago, mrkphpps said:

It would be better if everything worked at the push of a Doh button - but sometimes you need to stop  and think - and even read the instructions.  It doesn't just apply to Line6 and Helix - it applies to everyhthing.

 

^^^^ The best statement made in this thread so far! It's a shame it just won't work today for everyone.

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40 minutes ago, mrkphpps said:

It would be better if everything worked at the push of a Doh button - but sometimes you need to stop  and think - and even read the instructions.  It doesn't just apply to Line6 and Helix - it applies to everyhthing.

 

And in my opinion it works.

I wish a I had a quarter for every time a fellow employee in my department didn't read the instructions and takes two weeks to work on a project only to come to me for a solution.  So I read the documents which can take from 20 minutes to 3 hours based upon the system.  At that point I prepare a system from scratch and never fail to have it running successfully at the most within an 8 hour period.  Granted if the Line 6 _________ (fill in the name of yours) is broken that is a wild card.  However, from my perspective Digital Igloo, Phil, and others have provided not just a direct path to installing the upgrade, they have already provided a list of known issues you could run into; said list let me think about my next choice of upgrading or not.  And if the upgrade truly is unusable they have provided the path back to a working version.  Though may be I am misreading (pun intended) the instructions and getting lucky.

 

Just Plain Dennis

 

PS: I do agree it would be great to have the Line 6 staff wait until any and every bug is resolved before releasing the upgrade; search every "I WANT IT NOW" thread from day one to think about how that would really play out.  Thank God the tuner was fixed!  Crap - did I just mention the tuner? <wink and a nod>

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Thank you JP and Spikey - I know it won't work for everyone - I think that was the point I was trying to make - some people expect a DOH button to solve everything - and that just doesn't work.

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Is there something wrong with the tuner - it works for me?

 

Hides under bed waiting for many bad replies...

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The tuner "used" to be a broken jittery mess mrkphpps. It was updated and works well now. 

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But the update process is SO SIMPLE! What's there to simplyfiy/humanify? It's 4 steps basically. 

1. Create backup.

2. Download new HX Edit. 

3. Run Updater to update the firmware. 

4. Open HX Edit and restore from backup created in step 1. 

 

What do you people don't understand? I don't think this could be any simpler. There won't be a script that does all of these 4 things for you. 

 

PS. My 2.81 update just finished and it even seems that my presets are left untouched so no step 4 for me. DUH. 

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I was joking - this is not a tuner thread - sorry - my bad

 

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31 minutes ago, EooN said:

But the update process is SO SIMPLE! What's there to simplyfiy/humanify? It's 4 steps basically. 

1. Create backup.

2. Download new HX Edit. 

3. Run Updater to update the firmware. 

4. Open HX Edit and restore from backup created in step 1. 

 

What do you people don't understand? I don't think this could be any simpler. There won't be a script that does all of these 4 things for you. 

 

PS. My 2.81 update just finished and it even seems that my presets are left untouched so no step 4 for me. DUH. 

 

Lol... you're not wrong.

 

But you know what the best part of this debate is? Even if we got an update process with a one- click "DUH!" button tomorrow, there would still be multiple Forrest Gumps out there who'd find a way to screw that up, too. And what would happen next? A demand to return to a multi-step process, complete with clearly written instructions, because obviously the software can't be trusted to do more than one thing at a time. It's as predictable as the tides...nobody's ever happy, nothing is ever good enough, and someone or something else is always to blame. "User error?  Me? Couldn't be"...it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

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Forrest was very wise in many ways - but I could easily mess this up if I didn't prepare properly

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26 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

It's as predictable as the tides...nobody's ever happy, nothing is ever good enough, and someone or something else is always to blame. "User error?  Me? Couldn't be"...it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Lol. You're not exactly wrong, but wow that's a pessimistic outlook. Let me present you with a more positive, and more truthful perspective:

 

It's not that nothing's ever good enough. It's that what's good for some people isn't good for other people. It's not like it's the same people that's complaining about everything. I complain about things once in a while, but for every complaint I utter, I spend something like a hundred or a thousand times more time not complaining.

I'm not sure why you're only registering complaints, but you should rethink your outlook. It doesn't sound healthy. And it's wrong, because a lot of people are super happy all the time. You have fallen prey to one of the logical fallacies, I'm afraid. Shake it loose.

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Feffa i if you are talking about my posts - I'm sorry - but I am not complaining.  Line 6 are great, I couldn't be happier with my Helix - I just think you should look carefully at the things you have available before you complain - like this forum - so many people trying hard to help.  This is not a frying pan - and that is hard enough to work with - you have to know your tools.

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4 hours ago, mrkphpps said:

I was joking - this is not a tuner thread - sorry - my bad

 

 

It's all good. This is a useless wasted bandwidth thread about what would be nice but its never gonna happen anyway. Not that I'm complaining about not complaining. ; )

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I just finished my update to 2.81 on one of my Helix units and everything went perfectly as has every update I've done over the last few years.  The only difference I encountered was a rebuilding of my presets after I had loaded some exported presets built on 2.70 and power cycled my Helix...but that's somewhat to be expected.  I hasn't done it since and don't expect it to until I repeat that sequence of events.

 

But then again I'm one of those people that makes sure my internet connectivity is solid, my USB ports are rock solid, and my computer as a whole is very healthy and maintained that way.  Amazing what a difference that sort of thing can make.....

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you should blame cell phone companies like Apple and Samsung, blah blah , for creating a one button update culture with humans.   I believe they have more employees than L6 to create a smoother transition with less involvment for humans to completely say hold my beer and mess it up. 

I don't care what the update process is like, or how many steps you need to take. 

Most of these #armchairactivists forgot the big picture here.....it was free

When you start paying for an update, you maybe have a more valid reason to voice a concern if ligimate and not user error driven. 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, rucmas said:

you should blame cell phone companies like Apple and Samsung, blah blah , for creating a one button update culture with humans.   I believe they have more employees than L6 to create a smoother transition with less involvment for humans to completely say hold my beer and mess it up. 

I don't care what the update process is like, or how many steps you need to take. 

Most of these #armchairactivists forgot the big picture here.....it was free

When you start paying for an update, you maybe have a more valid reason to voice a concern if ligimate and not user error driven. 

 

 

 

But, but, but, but....I PAID for updates 2 years ago when I bought my Helix. THEY OWE ME!!!!  ;)

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2 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

But, but, but, but....I PAID for updates 2 years ago when I bought my Helix. THEY OWE ME!!!!  ;)

What if you bought it on a payment plan?   is that why there is issues updating ?   Were on to something here!!! the internet will love it!!!

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