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borgis

The 4 cm is too messy

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Hi

Newb question.

 

So..... the 4cm , im not denying it works but for my tastes the cable run is unsightly.

 

Can i run a seperate input output chain with only the effects i want in the loop of the amp?

 

Guitar into helix

Helix into amp 

Amp fx loop out to return 1

Amp fx loop in to send 1

 

That would make way more sense and look a bazillion times neater.

 

Cheers 

 

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Lol

You know what i mean.

I dont want the out going to the loop

I want it straightforward and tidy.

 

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Get some 1" flex wrap and some heat shrink tubing, make a cable loom with both ends labeled. If you don't go in and out of the loop, those FX will just be in front of the amp's input. You could eliminate 1 cable by just putting the Helix in the amps loop and plugging straight into the amp, but then you can't put any Helix FX in front of the amp. The easiest way to eliminate cables would be to bypass the amp's preamp all-together, use preamps in the Helix, and run Guitar->Helix->FX Return of the amp head. Then it's two cables. Even with a "real" pedalboard you'd still need four cables to put FX in the loop and in front (guitar->pre amp FX->amp input->FX send to post-amp FX->FX Return.

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The heat shrink is a solid idea.

I guess i just dont like one cable going round the back and one going to the amp input from two outputs that are side by side.

 

I just wanted to know if it was possible,  that way all my cords have a nice straight run and the fx loop cords are together nice and snug.

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Cables in general are a visual OCD person's nightmare, lol. Both myself and my bassist in one of my bands are cable-OCD. He literally pours over his guitar pedalboard weekly trying to eliminate extra things, find cleaner management, etc. At some point its just function over preference.

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Gaffers tape. Lay the 4 cables out on stage and tape them down flat next to each other. Apply tape liberally.

I hate bundling the cables up because you end up with a thick cable that is easy to trip on and nearly impossible to roll up neatly when you pack up. 

If you're really OCD then mount on a  pedalboard with a junction box to get the 4 connectors side by side, use right angle 1/4" connectors to keep them from getting kicked and then use gaffers tape for the cable.

 

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Get the Helix Rack, put a rack with the Helix under your amp.  Use the Helix Floor controller and attach footswitches/expression pedals to taste.  Your four cables are now one cable from your guitar to the Helix Rack, and three short cables in the back of your rig from the Helix to your amp.  Additionally, the Helix floor unit only needs one VDI cable to provide power and all functionality, including supporting the footswitches/expression pedals.  It doesn't get any neater than that.  As a bonus, since the Helix Rack has four FX Loops, you can add additional preamps, in mine here I have a Mesa Boogie Triaxis in the rack, and in the bottom behind the screen I have a Soldano GTO and a Victory "The Sherriff" pedals

EgnatorRackSetup.jpg

EgnatorRackSetupFootswitch.jpg

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It took a lot of thinking on my end... but I think I finally figured out what is bothering you!

You want a PAIR of cables for the effects loop that make connections side by side at both the HELIX and the AMP.

 

IMO... you are overthinking this. When you need to run a snake (eg: 2 or more lines) from one place to another... just leave an extra foot or two at each end so they can be inserted wherever they need to. Tag the ends so you know where they go... that is very common on all professional stages. The majority of the length itself can be tied or wrapped together in one neat bundle. 

 

On 8/28/2019 at 6:47 AM, borgis said:

Can i run a seperate input output chain with only the effects i want in the loop of the amp?

 

Guitar into helix

Helix into amp 

Amp fx loop out to return 1

Amp fx loop in to send 1

 

That would make way more sense and look a bazillion times neater.

 

The number of cables do not differ from a standard 4cm... where they connect does. 

FWIW... yes this can be done, but IMO.... the limits this imposes on your effects chain within the Helix is not worth the minuscule difference in cable organization. 

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On 9/2/2019 at 4:54 PM, codamedia said:

It took a lot of thinking on my end... but I think I finally figured out what is bothering you!

You want a PAIR of cables for the effects loop that make connections side by side at both the HELIX and the AMP.

 

IMO... you are overthinking this. When you need to run a snake (eg: 2 or more lines) from one place to another... just leave an extra foot or two at each end so they can be inserted wherever they need to. Tag the ends so you know where they go... that is very common on all professional stages. The majority of the length itself can be tied or wrapped together in one neat bundle. 

 

 

The number of cables do not differ from a standard 4cm... where they connect does. 

FWIW... yes this can be done, but IMO.... the limits this imposes on your effects chain within the Helix is not worth the minuscule difference in cable organization. 

Hey. Yeah.

After a week of ownership i used path 1b for this.

1a front end

1b loop.

2a mic pre .

 

Makes more sense to me. Any drawbacks to this?

 

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25 minutes ago, borgis said:

After a week of ownership i used path 1b for this.

1a front end

1b loop.

2a mic pre .

 

Makes more sense to me. Any drawbacks to this?

 

If it works for you then that is all that matters :) 

 

I'll be honest... this looks like a complicated solution to a problem that never existed to begin with... not to mention it puts a hard limit on effects and effects placement compared to a traditional 4 cable method. 

 

 

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Yes i totally agree , its not a problem that needed fixed.

 

Its me. I am the problem. 

 

I think its simpler, neater and easier to work with. Although id be interested in hearing how doing it the normal way would give more flexibility.

 

I may be able to talk myself round if i have a good enough reason. I am fairly reasonable that way ;)

 

Cheers

 

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Use a trs cable into splitter at either end. Then you will only have 2 cables from your Helix to make the connections. Not a big improvement, but one less cable.

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8 hours ago, borgis said:

Hey. Yeah.

After a week of ownership i used path 1b for this.

1a front end

1b loop.

2a mic pre .

 

Makes more sense to me. Any drawbacks to this?

 

 

I'd kind of have to see how you feed it all together, but one of the primary reasons people use the four cable method is they are amp purists. So they want the tone and sound of the pre-amp, which they then want colored by the Helix effects (in that order) and then back into the amp. 

 

From what I understand of what you're doing, it won't sound the same. Now, that doesn't mean it will sound bad, or won't sound amazing, or even that the difference will be significant. 

 

I'd say try them both. If you prefer it the way you did it, cool. 

 

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its a 4 cm but with send and return 1 handling the effects loop as opposed to the standard 4 cm method.

 

being new to fx loops (ive mainly played through single channel non mv amps) i really dont know anything about them other than what ive googled.

 

cheers

 

 

Edited by borgis
error

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1 hour ago, borgis said:

being new to fx loops (ive mainly played through single channel non mv amps) i really dont know anything about them other than what ive googled.

 

I have gathered that.... it seems you are grappling with having a SEND go to the input of your amp and an OUTPUT go to your return on your amp. 

  • SENDS are OUTPUTS that can be placed wherever you want them to be in the signal flow
  • RETURNS are INPUTS that can be placed wherever you want them to be in the signal flow
  • An EFFECTS LOOP is just a single block that handles both the SEND and RETURN... both in the same position in the signal flow.
1 hour ago, borgis said:

its a 4 cm but with send and return 1 handling the effects loop as opposed to the standard 4 cm method

 

By why? That's what many of us are trying to figure out... and most gave up trying :) 

Whether you recognize it or not you have just added complication and limitation. Someday you may hit a brick wall (limitation) and the "aha" moment will hit you.

 

As I said earlier... if it works for you then that is all that matters :) There really is no right or wrong to creating good tone. 

 

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21 hours ago, borgis said:

Although id be interested in hearing how doing it the normal way would give more flexibility.

 

Sorry, I missed this question earlier.

  1. One great option with standard 4cm is the possibility to toggle between your amps pre-amp and different pre-amps in the Helix.  You have completely eliminated this option.
  2. You have locked yourself into 8 effects before the amp, and 6 effects in the effects loop (2 blocks are required for send/return on the loops path). With standard 4cm you are not tied to a specific number in either location.... you just have a 32 block overall limit.
  3. You have tied yourself to 1 processor for all your guitar effects. This may result in DSP limits. 
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Velcro strips are your friend. I have um and use um all the time. Being neater about your layout is good, but obsessive (anything) OCD or just weirdness stops you from spanking the plank.

BTW- I have OCD and speak from experience here- and FYI there's no tuner in the editor so don't even look for one! ; )

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Thanks for your patience codamedia

If i needed moar dsp could i not do this or similar.

 

Plus im not using any send return blocks in this setup

 

1a G in ----------- path 2b

1b Loop in -------- loop out

2a mic in --------mic out 

2b --------- guitar out

 

 

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36 minutes ago, spikey said:

Velcro strips are your friend. I have um and use um all the time. Being neater about your layout is good, but obsessive (anything) OCD or just weirdness stops you from spanking the plank.

BTW- I have OCD and speak from experience here- and FYI there's no tuner in the editor so don't even look for one! ; )

 

I know im the problem. It just seems wrong to have cables going all over the shop.

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