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Warbling when palm muting on drop tunings

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I've noticed that when I use a drop tuning on the Alt Tunings if I palm mute on strings higher than the low E it makes an odd warbling sound. I updated the firmware but that seems to make no change.

 

I have seen from other posts this could be a setup issue, but they were having problems with all the alt tunings. When I use a standard tuning so all the strings are dropped evenly it works fine, it's just drop tunings that act weird. 

 

I have debated removing the non-Variax pickup as I never use it anyway (my rig is Shuriken Variax Sr270 into a Helix Floor), but I wanna check to see if I can fix this problem without.

 

I tune the guitar to D standard physically. 

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Tuning has to be spot on, intonation has to be spot on, and the set-up has to be spot on,... including

the distance between the pick-up and the strings.

 

Warbling is a result of the pick-up height adjustment. Alt Tune brings out the pitch difference, and also

brings out the warbling more.

 

Also be aware of "dual tone effect", where one hears both the sound from the guitar (standard tune),

while hearing the amplified sound in Alt Tune,... which can also contribute to a warbling effect. And palm

muting not applied evenly, allowing un-muted strings to ring, can contribute as well.

 

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I have noticed this issue on my Shuriken 250 - but only in Drop D tunings and only on the A string - warbling when palm muting. 

All other alternative tunings do not experience this issue only when palm muting the A sting and engaged the modeling with the Alt Tuning Button.

The guitar is tuned to standard tuning and this warbling doesn't happen when playing it without engaging the modeling. 

This issue doesn't happen with other alternative tunings, only when I'm in Drop D or other similar tunings like DADFAE. 

All my pickups and all other settings are the same between all other alt tunings.

I'm using a string dampener as well if that matters. 

Very strange that it's only the A string and Drop D tunings only...and hoping there's a fix for this.

Any ideas?

 

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Just now, psarkissian said:

What gauge strings are you using?

 

Just standard that came with it, not sure. I can’t see how strings or tuning can be causing this as it it only happens on one type of tuning so I’m guessing it must be the modelling software? This issues doesn’t happen in other tunings or in standard tuning.

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If intonation and standard tuning are not spot on, then the reference point which all the other tuning is reference to, will be off slightly.

Half step and whole step will be more dissonant. And that makes the "dual tone effect" worse.

 

Warbling would be a pick-up height thing. Fret the highest fret, set the pole piece height to the string,... 3mm on the Low-E side,

2mm on the Hi-E side.

 

Also check the wearing on the string nut slots.

 

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1 minute ago, psarkissian said:

If intonation and standard tuning are not spot on, then the reference point which all the other tuning is reference to, will be off slightly.

Half step and whole step will be more dissonant. And that makes the "dual tone effect" worse.

 

Warbling would be a pick-up height thing. Fret the highest fret, set the pole piece height to the string,... 3mm on the Low-E side,

2mm on the Hi-E side.

 

Also check the wearing on the string nut slots.

 

If it’s an intonation issue, shouldn’t this problem appear on all tunings while modelled and also while in standard without modelling…? Which it doesn’t. Why would this happen on Drop D tuning only? And only on the A string? 

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" If it’s an intonation issue, shouldn’t this problem appear on all tunings while modeled and also while in standard without modelling…? " --- Not necessarily.

Since each string has its own adjustment and being tuned in perfect 4th's except for G-B in a major 3rd, slight difference in relations between strings can

be brought out more when going into alternate tuning. As a result, I use a precision tuner when I do intonation on a set-up.

 

As a check, I do strike a open string bar chord harmonic at frets 12, 7 and 5, to check for howling and whistling, using the Acoustic 12-string model,

as having the octaves can exaggerate the beat ones when it's not spot on. 

 

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Guitar tech. Active electronic guitars like this need to have a tighter, more spot on set-up in general.

And with intonation, good to have a precision tuner. Use a Line 6 authorized technician, as pick-up height

has to be tight as well.

 

The field of magnetic pole pieces on the pick-ups don't turn off when you are in model mode, it's why it's

called a permanent magnet. Warbling occurs in model mode when the pick-up height is off and the magnet

pulls on the strings, causing elliptical vibration pattern, instead of a more transverse transition. And that

crosses the field in an uneven manner. That unevenness is the warbling. 

 

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On 9/9/2021 at 3:21 AM, marinescudaniell said:

Should I attempt to fix this intonation issue if that's what it is myself, or do you recommend to take it to a guitar technician?

 

 

There's nothing difficult about adjusting intonation... and doing it on a Variax is no different than any other guitar in the known universe. The recipe is always exactly the same... it's a mechanical issue involving bridge saddle position and the vibrating length of each string, and may or may not require adjusting the height of the mag pickups.

 

If you own a decent tuner and are capable of turning a screw driver (or small hex wrench, as the case may be), then you are eminently qualified to adjust your own intonation. Detailed instructions on exactly how to determine what adjustments need to be made, and how to make them, are readily available on line from any number of sources... check youtube.

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I’ve checked out YouTube vids, tested with two tuners, adjusted a little with a screw driver. The A string is perfectly in tune being played open and at the 12th fret including harmonics. Issue is still there…

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Tuning, intonation or pick-up height, in rare cases string gauge set in conjunction with the other three reasons,

would be the things that would contribute to warbling. For Alt Tune to sound right, those three prime adjustments

have to be really spot on.

 

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