Double Tracking

[scrinson]

Hi,

 

I play in a UK based covers band and I've been using the helix floor for gigging for just over 2 years now. Would any of you guys be able to point me in the right direction with getting a double tracked guitar kind of sound - as an example I'm trying to thicken up the riff from I love rock and roll (the part played during the verses). I generally use either the whowatt100 or Brit Plexi Norm for this kind of sound with a kinky comp at the start of the chain to add sustain. 

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

 

[OmniFace]

Modulation > Double Take

 

It's designed to mimic double tracking, either in stereo, or mono.  Be aware that faked double tracking usually results in a little bit of weird phase issues in mono.  In stereo the separation makes them feel more natural.

[Peter]

You can split the signal chain to two amps. Then use a delay  (mix 100% / time 2-8ms) befor one amp. Or you can use the "double tack" modulation block.

But double tracking works only in stereo (headphones, stereo pa). I would not use it on stage. In mono, you have frequency overlaps/ phase issues and it does not sound really good, more like a chorus. (...my opinion)

[scrinson]

Thanks very much for your comments

 

[rzumwalt]

A couple years ago someone on here posted an idea to use the pitch delay to mimic a double track. It worked pretty well, but I can't seem to find the thread. You set the feedback to 0% (or 1%, whatever gives you just one repeat), delay to maybe 3 ms, and pitch to about 5 cents. I think you were supposed to set the mix at 50%, but I tended to set it at a little less to make the effect less apparent.

 

I'm now interested in combining that with Peter's idea...

 

On 9/2/2019 at 12:50 PM, Peter said:

You can split the signal chain to two amps. Then use a delay  (mix 100% / time 2-8ms) befor one amp.

 

...but using the pitch delay.

[Peter]

8 hours ago, rzumwalt said:

I'm now interested in combining that with Peter's idea...

 

 

...but using the pitch delay.

I got the idea from the FREMEN preset pack. He uses it in some stereo metal presets. Sounds really good with headphones.

[ppoceiro]

7 hours ago, Peter said:

I got the idea from the FREMEN preset pack. He uses it in some stereo metal presets. Sounds really good with headphones.

 

I also use this method sometimes.

If you want to save some DSP you can use only one amp and one cab and put a simple mono delay after the cab in a split path. 

Same settings: feedback 0%, 5 to 15ms, mix 100% and in the mixer block panned hard left and right. 

As said works very well with a stereo output. Be very careful when going mono because of the phase issues. Even if you're going stereo to one FRFR you will still have phase issues. If going mono just disable the delay.

I tried the simple pitch with a few cents and a bit of delay and tried the double take block but ended up using my old method with just the simple delay. 

The simple pitch can have a few artifacts and the double tracking sounds like chorus to me and I can't get the stereo effect I get with the delay.

Cheers

[fenderbenderlax]

I use a two amp preset with one path dedicated to my tube amp connected through the FX loop into a cab and the second path using a modeled amp and cab into an FRFR.  I typically use a simple delay set to about 20ms with feedback at 0 and mix at 100% and a pitch block to detune a few cents for one path typically the modeled amp. I don't know why but some of the pitch effects create weird digital warbles when I use it with my real amp. But this method seems to thicken the sound (at least perceived sound) significantly and found this to work much better in live situations as compared to the double take. 

[rzumwalt]

On 9/5/2019 at 7:45 AM, ppoceiro said:

 

I also use this method sometimes.

If you want to save some DSP you can use only one amp and one cab and put a simple mono delay after the cab in a split path. 

Same settings: feedback 0%, 5 to 15ms, mix 100% and in the mixer block panned hard left and right. 

As said works very well with a stereo output. Be very careful when going mono because of the phase issues. Even if you're going stereo to one FRFR you will still have phase issues. If going mono just disable the delay.

I tried the simple pitch with a few cents and a bit of delay and tried the double take block but ended up using my old method with just the simple delay. 

The simple pitch can have a few artifacts and the double tracking sounds like chorus to me and I can't get the stereo effect I get with the delay.

Cheers

 

I noticed you use a ducked delay with the ducking at 0%. Any reason for this? If there is any ducking effect actually happening, I would imagine the volume of that path would go in and out since the mix is at 100%. Is it because the ducked delay has a low and high cut?

 

I don't recall getting a chorus effect when I used the pitch delay. I think I had the pitch setting at maybe just a 2 or 3 cents. Just enough to widen the sound a bit, but not so much anyone would know there was any pitch effect going on at all. I also don't recall ever getting any noticeable artifacts. My guess was that, with the pitch delay, since the processor has those couple of milliseconds to process the signal, it has time to apply a more powerful process to changing the pitch than it could with the simple pitch, which is required to process the signal almost instantaneously. But I don't know whether any of that is true.

[rzumwalt]

 

On 9/5/2019 at 12:29 AM, Peter said:

I got the idea from the FREMEN preset pack. He uses it in some stereo metal presets. Sounds really good with headphones.

 

 

I meant to ask Peter why he used a ducked delay, but I only remembered to quote ppoceiro in my previous post?

[Peter]

10 hours ago, rzumwalt said:

 

 

I meant to ask Peter why he used a ducked delay, but I only remembered to quote ppoceiro in my previous post?

 

Sorry, I don't really know. :D  Maybe because of the low/high cut

It was just an example, a screenshot from a Fremen-Preset. It was the first one with double tracking I found in my list.

(He also uses other delays for double tracking.)