noise issue with palm mutes

[willyjacksonjs22]

when i use a high gain amp and palm mute single note or chords i get this metallic underground noise. is it normal?

i try to upload the noise but the forum doesnt let me.

 

[Heavyville]

you need godly hand technique to minimize that stuff on palm mutes.

I see a lot of palyers use that "muffle" thing up by the nut. 

do you have a noise gate? 

 

also, turn the gain down is a very good rule. 

[willyjacksonjs22]

22 minutes ago, Heavyville said:

you need godly hand technique to minimize that stuff on palm mutes.

I see a lot of palyers use that "muffle" thing up by the nut. 

do you have a noise gate? 

 

also, turn the gain down is a very good rule. 

yes turning down the gain works. but some songs require more gain to get the right tone. 

im also using the noise gate on helix native

 

[gunpointmetal]

Could be lots of things - loose pickup springs, trem springs vibrating, above-nut string vibration, loose string saddle height screw. If it's consistent across several guitars it might be a technique thing.

[Heavyville]

I guarantee that the gain on the amps during recording where lower than you'd think.   Less is more.  

I've had Meshuggah stems from new and old music in my studio ( not for me to mix for them as part of NTM)  and those guitars in solo are not as gained as what you hear in the end. 

they even had all the double parts done with the volume on the guitar at half to reduce gain. 

 

I'd just play with the gain until it sounds good, and if you still get weird lollipop, its most likely fleshy bits of hand skin rubbing the strings that aren't quite muted out the right way. 

[willyjacksonjs22]

9 minutes ago, Heavyville said:

I guarantee that the gain on the amps during recording where lower than you'd think.   Less is more.  

I've had Meshuggah stems from new and old music in my studio ( not for me to mix for them as part of NTM)  and those guitars in solo are not as gained as what you hear in the end. 

they even had all the double parts done with the volume on the guitar at half to reduce gain. 

 

I'd just play with the gain until it sounds good, and if you still get weird lollipop, its most likely fleshy bits of hand skin rubbing the strings that aren't quite muted out the right way. 

then why do they sound like if they do? could it be the double track?

i cant get those squeals if theres not that much gain lol

[willyjacksonjs22]

17 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

Could be lots of things - loose pickup springs, trem springs vibrating, above-nut string vibration, loose string saddle height screw. If it's consistent across several guitars it might be a technique thing.

i already check that. solve the issue by lowering the gain but i lose those squeals lol

[gunpointmetal]

5 minutes ago, jorgealberto25 said:

i already check that. solve the issue by lowering the gain but i lose those squeals lol

Pinch harmonic squeals? You can get those on an acoustic if you do it right! lol

[Kilrahi]

1 hour ago, jorgealberto25 said:

when i use a high gain amp and palm mute single note or chords i get this metallic underground noise. is it normal?

i try to upload the noise but the forum doesnt let me.

 

 

Did you get this on a traditional high gain amp? 

[willyjacksonjs22]

6 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

Pinch harmonic squeals? You can get those on an acoustic if you do it right! lol

lol i know that put they sound better and easier to make when theres more distortion. just saying.

ok then any tips?

[willyjacksonjs22]

Just now, Kilrahi said:

 

Did you get this on a traditional high gain amp? 

im using the pv panana on the helix.

i played an 6505 mh that im going to order and it was easier to get that effect.

[Kilrahi]

2 minutes ago, jorgealberto25 said:

im using the pv panana on the helix.

i played an 6505 mh that im going to order and it was easier to get that effect.

 

The reason I ask is the issues you described sounded more technique based to me, and so I wondered if you'd tried it on "real" high gain amps before and had no problems.

 

The first time I tried palm mutes on high gain, with real amps I might add, I got some sounds I really didn't like. 

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, jorgealberto25 said:

when i use a high gain amp and palm mute single note or chords i get this metallic underground noise. is it normal?

 

Hard to say for sure ... there could be several reasons. 

• Playing to soft? You need to play "through" the note or you will get a scratchy string noise. 
• Don't underestimate the role of the fretting hand... it has a duty to mute as well! Strings vibrate a lot, even behind the fretted note. That's the job of the fretting hand to control. 
• Guitar noise... springs, lose parts, a single lose bridge adjuster, etc... etc.... Something you cannot hear acoustically can come through loud and clear when amplified... especially with higher gain.

If you can find a way to share an audio sample, I think many of us could identify the possible issue and fix. 

[willyjacksonjs22]

9 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

The reason I ask is the issues you described sounded more technique based to me, and so I wondered if you'd tried it on "real" high gain amps before and had no problems.

 

The first time I tried palm mutes on high gain, with real amps I might add, I got some sounds I really didn't like. 

i got the technique right with real amps.

 

really? i like the sound that comes out of a real speaker cab :)

[Kilrahi]

6 minutes ago, jorgealberto25 said:

i got the technique right with real amps.

 

really? i like the sound that comes out of a real speaker cab :)

 

I like techniques done well that come out of a real speaker cab, but the vast majority of any guitar technique is the player. Techniques done badly sound like lollipop out of modelers or real amps. 

 

Anyway, it sounds like we ruled out that idea. I just wanted to be sure. 

[willyjacksonjs22]

8 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

I like techniques done well that come out of a real speaker cab, but the vast majority of any guitar technique is the player. Techniques done badly sound like lollipop out of modelers or real amps. 

 

Anyway, it sounds like we ruled out that idea. I just wanted to be sure. 

maybe im doing something wrong with the plugin. been noticing that is different to dial a tone on a modeler. i was trying to copy the settings that i tried on a 6505 lol 

[gunpointmetal]

Unless you're running Native out to a power amp and real speaker cab, they're two very different types of sounds. What works/sounds good in the room with a real cab might not be what works in a recording situation.  Depending on the pickups and output of the guitar, there should be enough gain on the Panama model with it set at 3 for chugs and pinch harmonics unless you have some low output single coils or something. If you're muting is tight and it's not a noise from the strings between the bridge and the nut, and you're sure on your technique, there's gotta be something loose somewhere in the guitar hardware. 

[Heavyville]

On 9/6/2019 at 3:10 PM, jorgealberto25 said:

then why do they sound like if they do? could it be the double track?

i cant get those squeals if theres not that much gain lol

When mixing music at that level and you pile on the double tracks along with the distorted bass it starts to sound more distorted or saturated than when soloed, plus all the mixing magic that gets applied.   Trust me, they still have gain, its just not what you would think. 

One of the coolest guitar tracks on the last album was this Randall modded MTS module call the C_WATT and all the dials where set to attempt to "break" the amp and it sounded so thick and meaty that it was crazy.  Most of the perceived low end on that record come from this track floating in the background with the bass.  

 

less is more. 

 

I don't use the 5150 Panama, imo, its not an amp that L6 did a good job with.  I could never get it to sound good.   Try the Rev Gen, it reminds me of what a 5150 should sound like. 

 

 

[willyjacksonjs22]

4 hours ago, Heavyville said:

When mixing music at that level and you pile on the double tracks along with the distorted bass it starts to sound more distorted or saturated than when soloed, plus all the mixing magic that gets applied.   Trust me, they still have gain, its just not what you would think. 

One of the coolest guitar tracks on the last album was this Randall modded MTS module call the C_WATT and all the dials where set to attempt to "break" the amp and it sounded so thick and meaty that it was crazy.  Most of the perceived low end on that record come from this track floating in the background with the bass.  

 

less is more. 

 

I don't use the 5150 Panama, imo, its not an amp that L6 did a good job with.  I could never get it to sound good.   Try the Rev Gen, it reminds me of what a 5150 should sound like. 

 

thaks for the info. sorry if i post here like if i know everything. just curiosity 

 

yes i dont either. thanks ill try the rev gen once i purchase the plugin or the Lt. any advice on which one should i choose?

what i didnt like about native is that my computer started clipping when there was more effects in the signal chain.

i just wanna keep learning music and songs. i have never own a pedal board.

[rd2rk]

7 hours ago, jorgealberto25 said:

yes i dont either. thanks ill try the rev gen once i purchase the plugin or the Lt. any advice on which one should i choose?

what i didnt like about native is that my computer started clipping when there was more effects in the signal chain.

 

Get the hardware. Then, get Native for $99 (or less) later.

 

[codamedia]

9 hours ago, jorgealberto25 said:

what i didnt like about native is that my computer started clipping when there was more effects in the signal chain.

 

If you are clipping... turn down the output in Helix Native....

then google "gain staging" :)