Using HX stomp only as a digital input into a DAW and NOT an audio interface

[prorenzo]

Hi guys,

 

I am wondering if it is possible to configure the HX stomp only as a digital input into my DAW instead of having to use the entire HX stomp itself as an interface? Reason is I do not wish to be plugging my monitors in and out of the HX stomp every time i need to head out. I already have a dedicated audio interface (Audient id4), so I dont see why I need to be forced to use the HX stomp as an interface. Currently using reaper as my DAW.

 

Ideal scenario:
- HX Stomp USB inputs into DAW

- HX Stomp 1/4 outs into DAW for direct monitoring

- DAW playback output via Audient id4 into monitor speakers

 

Feedback would be very much appreciated!

 

[rd2rk]

USB only works when the Stomp is set up as your sound card (interface).

Floor and rack have digital connections which can be used with an external sound card that has compatible inputs.

If you're using a MAC it's supposedly possible to set up an "aggregate device", allowing you to use both sound cards at once.

[codamedia]

If you are on Windows there is no way to do this. I know someone will jump in and suggest "asio4all" drivers... but that is a solution I would not use myself. 

 

I never go direct with my Helix, I always take it through my mixer and interface. I don't see it as degrading a prestine signal, if it is changing the signal it's what I am hearing so I would never know :) 

[rd2rk]

23 minutes ago, codamedia said:

If you are on Windows there is no way to do this. I know someone will jump in and suggest "asio4all" drivers... but that is a solution I would not use myself. 

 

I never go direct with my Helix, I always take it through my mixer and interface. I don't see it as degrading a prestine signal, if it is changing the signal it's what I am hearing so I would never know :) 

 

Another strong NO to ASIO4ALL.

While going digital seems a logical choice, I can't tell the difference between recording a digital signal from the Helix and recording the Helix through the analog inputs on my Scarlett.

 

Not that I'm opposed to digital tech (obviously, I have a Helix) but most of the recorded music I like best was recorded with a tube amp through a microphone and onto tape, then gouged into vinyl, tracked by a needle whose vibrations were converted into the electrical signals that were reproduced by a paper cone speaker, so..... 

[phil_m]

You can certainly select a different audio interface in Reaper and still use HX Edit to edit the Stomp. I actually think you can choose a different interface to be your Windows interface and still use HX Edit, too. I do this quite often, really. I have a separate mixer that I use as my main recording interface, and I plug in my Stomp or Helix and use HX Edit without them being my audio interface all the time. If I want to record via USB from the Helix, I just select that as the interface in Reaper, and do that. I always have the Helix's XLR outs plugged into a pair of channels on my mixer, though, so I'm always hearing the audio from the Helix through my mixer (my studio monitors are connected to my mixer - well, actually, I have a separate monitor matrix mixer thing that lets me select between different monitor pairs, you get the gist...).

[rd2rk]

Clarification -

 

Helix USB can be used with HX Edit REGARDLESS of whether Helix is the sound card.

Helix USB can only be used to record directly to DAW when Helix IS the sound card.

L6 did a good job keeping the two functions separate.

[duncann]

24 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Clarification -

 

Helix USB can be used with HX Edit REGARDLESS of whether Helix is the sound card.

Helix USB can only be used to record directly to DAW when Helix IS the sound card.

L6 did a good job keeping the two functions separate.

 

The second statement doesn't seem correct. Shouldn't it be, Helix can be used to record directly to DAW regardless of whether Helix is the sound card?

 

[rd2rk]

On 9/16/2019 at 1:21 PM, duncann said:

 

The second statement doesn't seem correct. Shouldn't it be, Helix can be used to record directly to DAW regardless of whether Helix is the sound card?

 

 

Attached screenshots of Reaper IO with Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 as soundcard, and with Helix as soundcard. Helix has only it's 8 USB inputs available, Focusrite has 18 USB inputs available.

 

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

 

 

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, duncann said:

Shouldn't it be, Helix can be used to record directly to DAW regardless of whether Helix is the sound card?

 

On Windows... only one ASIO device can be used at a time. 

• If you set the Helix as the Asio Device, then the DAW can use it as inputs, but it will also use it as the output. 
• If you set another interface as the Asio Device so you can use it's output, then the DAW will only see that Devices inputs as well... not the inputs from the Helix (or HX Stomp)

That is not a limitation of the Helix... that is a limitation of Windows.

On a MAC you can aggregate devices and use them all. 

 

[duncann]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

Unsure, perhaps not. I record to Reaper using Helix's ASIO drivers, but I don't use Helix as the system soundcard, which I have disabled for both playback and recording. This conflicts with your second statement above.

 

52 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

On Windows... only one ASIO device can be used at a time. 

• If you set the Helix as the Asio Device, then the DAW can use it as inputs, but it will also use it as the output. 
• If you set another interface as the Asio Device so you can use it's output, then the DAW will only see that Devices inputs as well... not the inputs from the Helix (or HX Stomp)

That is not a limitation of the Helix... that is a limitation of Windows.

On a MAC you can aggregate devices and use them all. 

 

 

I have another device acting as the system soundcard and Helix's spdif output is connected to this, then to the speakers/headphones.

 

The detail I just realized that might shed light on possible confusion is that I'm using Helix Floor, not Stomp. Is USB functionality really different between these devices?

 

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, duncann said:

I record to Reaper using Helix's ASIO drivers, but I don't use Helix as the system soundcard, which I have disabled for both playback and recording.

 

2 hours ago, duncann said:

I have another device acting as the system soundcard and Helix's spdif output is connected to this, then to the speakers/headphones.

 

2 hours ago, duncann said:

Is USB functionality really different between these devices?

 

Other than the number of inputs/outputs no, I don't believe the USB acts much different.

BUT - your Floor has "SPDIF" and you are utilizing it.... that changes things as the STOMP (and LT) do not have SPDIF.

 

It appears you may be using a specific solution that works for you, but isn't necessarily the solution for the OP. Your workaround is very clever, but to accomplish it you need "SPDIF Out on the Helix" and "SPDIF IN on the second interface"... the OP doesn't have either luxury. 

 

If you want to experience the limits myself and rd2rk are talking about, and what the OP's problem is... try this. 

1. Disconnect your spdif
2. In Reaper, assign Helix as the INPUTS
3. In Reaper, assign your second interface as the OUTPUTS

 

 

[rd2rk]

There's so many ways to do this.

 

In my "Studio" (the living room) I use the 18i20 as ASIO Sound card (incidentally, better latency than the Helix). I run the SPDIF from Helix Floor to the 18i20 for a digital connection to the DAW. I also use a G10 with the 1/4" out to the Helix Guitar IN, and the XLR out to a channel on the 18i20. This has the advantage that if I WANT to use a VST with a minimal preset (say, Helix ODs to S-Gear) and/or record a clean track for re-amping with Native or another VST, I can, with no cable swapping ever.

 

Meanwhile, I've got the Floor running 4cm to my tube amp with a separate XLR with Cab going to an FRFR112. BIG, FULL sound at 60-80db. The other inputs on the 18i20 get used for eDrums, Analog Synth and Vocals. The many outs on the 18i20 allow for 5 independent monitor mixes (in addition to my Studio Monitors), so I can rehearse a whole band (sans vocalist) nearly silently in my apartment! For audible playback I can route bass to the FRFR112, synths and eDRums to the Studio Monitors, and Guitar (via SPDIF OUT on the 18i20 to the Helix SPDIF In) back to the tube amp. If I want to. It's kind of overkill for playback.

 

The laptop sound card provides streaming ability for YT, Spotify, etc.. I run the laptop sound card out to the 18i20, and that allows me to record my playing over the many backing tracks that are on the laptop. NOTE: this creates a noisy USB ground loop that I remedy with a Hum Destroyer between the laptop Out and the 18i20.

 

I use my Stomp in my "office" (the dining room). The Stomp is the ASIO sound card. The office laptop sound card comes out to the Stomp's FX loop return with Return Type set to Aux In. With the Output block set to -120db (OFF), I record Guitar (L Input) on USB 5 or Bass (R Input) on 6, and record separate Streaming on USB 7+8 from the laptop.

 

So, really, there aren't a whole lot of "limitations" between the two devices, just different ways of configuring and using them.

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

So, really, there aren't a whole lot of "limitations" between the two devices, just different ways of configuring and using them.

 

There are always limitations based on what the user is using.... and there are always creative solutions based on what the user is using.

 

I don't disagree with your creativity... or "duncann's" creativity.... I do that too....

But keeping this thread relevant to the OP....

1. Op has a Helix Stomp
2. Op has an Audient id4
3. Op wants his DAW to INPUT from the Stomp
4. Op wants his DAW to OUTPUT to the Audient id4. 

What is the solution that works for the OP... not for each of us :) 

I'm not listing "my solution" because that is irrelevant to the op unless he buys the gear I have. 

[codamedia]

13 hours ago, prorenzo said:

Ideal scenario:
- HX Stomp USB inputs into DAW

- HX Stomp 1/4 outs into DAW for direct monitoring 

- DAW playback output via Audient id4 into monitor speakers

 

Feedback would be very much appreciated!

 

IMO.... 

Don't worry about recording direct with the Helix.... the benefit would not be worth the trouble. The steps below will still sound great, and give you everything you need! 

1. Stomp 1/4" mono output to the line input on the back of the ID4.
   • If you "need" stereo.... connect the two Stomp outputs to the line input and DI input on the ID4. Adjust the "mic gain" and "DI gain" to balance the two sides.
2. For direct monitoring, adjust the "input / daw" control accordingly. 
3. Set the DAW's audio device to the ID4. You will have two outputs and two inputs.

Why do I say recording direct won't be worth the trouble? 

In step 2 above, you are hearing your Helix through the ID4 with zero latency.

You are recording exactly WHAT YOU ARE HEARING? If you don't like the tone... change it so you do! 

 

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

IMO.... 

Don't worry about recording direct with the Helix.... the benefit would not be worth the trouble. The steps below will still sound great, and give you everything you need! 

1. Stomp 1/4" mono output to the line input on the back of the ID4.
   • If you "need" stereo.... connect the two Stomp outputs to the line input and DI input on the ID4. Adjust the "mic gain" and "DI gain" to balance the two sides.
2. For direct monitoring, adjust the "input / daw" control accordingly. 
3. Set the DAW's audio device to the ID4. You will have two outputs and two inputs.

Why do I say recording direct won't be worth the trouble? 

In step 2 above, you are hearing your Helix through the ID4 with zero latency.

You are recording exactly WHAT YOU ARE HEARING? If you don't like the tone... change it so you do! 

 

 

I'd just add that if there's any reason to be listening to the DAW output (synths, drum programs, clips), you'll have the Mix control on the iD4 turned more towards the middle than full left, so be sure that the MONITOR button on the DAW Helix track is OFF, else you'll get an echo effect due to the slight latency from the DAW vs the direct monitoring from the Stomp.

[prorenzo]

Thank you for the overwhelming number of replies!

 

I am using windows indeed.

 

Many of you are asking why I am 'insisting' on USB recording. My reason is that I require all 3 outputs from the HX Stomp, main output, send output, and DI signal output. Using just one USB cable is a very elegant solution . I am also going to be using it for re-amping purposes, so I also need USB input as well. Furthermore, I only have one line input on my Audient iD4, so it is impossible to record those 3 output tracks simultaneously.

I guess I have no choice but to use the HX stomp as my recording interface then.