POD HD and my amp...

[Chuckusa]

So here is what I am playing with right now. I have an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro II all stock... I also use a POD HD black kidney bean pedal. For years I have been wanting the

Peavey Valveking II 20 guitar amp combo. Well this year I have a feeling I am going to get it after Christmas is over (my birthday is shortly after the new year). 

 

Anyway what I want to knows, whats the best approach to using these two items together? (The Peavey Valveking II 20 and the POD HD)

 

The amp has a buffered effects loop. I was wondering do you guys know from experience, what sounds better;

running the guitar straight into the input of the amp, then hook up the POD HD to the effects loop? Can the POD HD do that? 

Or should I just run the POD HD straight through the input of the amp?

 

Also reasoning with the amp emulation of the POD HD, should I play the effects using the preamp of the combo? Or will I get some really

neat sounds using the POD HD with the effects AND the amp simulations?

 

I would like to use the jam-along/sound i nterface feature of the POD HD and have some tracks playing through the POD HD while I play along to them, 

then record the result from the USB of the Peavey Valveking.

 

Will any of this work good, (I know the emulated output won't sound as crisp and lively as a real mic in front of the amp speaker).

 

What do y'all think?

[hurghanico]

1 hour ago, Chuckusa said:

...then hook up the POD HD to the effects loop? Can the POD HD do that? 

Or should I just run the POD HD straight through the input of the amp?

 

Connect the POD to the amp input only if you use it just for the effects (ie no amp models)..

 

You could put the POD in the FX LOOP of the tube amp no problem (let say just for using some effects and not amp models) but some effect models like overdrives and distortions would be in bad position in the chain, since usually they should be placed between the guitar and the pre-amp (real or modeled)..

I would rather suggest to connect your guitar to the POD and the POD to the RETURN input of the tube amp.

 

Doing so you, ie basically bypassing just the tube amp pre-amp, you could then nicely combine several HD pre-amp models with the real power-amp and speaker of the tube amp, plus all the FX models.

 

IMO the above one is the simpler and effective way to connect the POD to a tube amp. Good and easy results are guarantee.

 

In the above configuration you should preferably select the pre-amp version of the amp models available and disable the cab models.

 

But if you don't want to bypass the pre-amp part of your amp (and you are not interested in using instead the pre-amp models), you should instead use the 4 cable method, which is a more flexible way of working but as its name says it requires 4 cables and more tweakings to work good.

 

You can easily find several posts around about the 4CM if you are interested to it.

 

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[pianoguyy]

it really depends on what you are trying to do  - as far as tone is concerned. 

 

take me as an example; 

prior to going all digital, i ran everything in one long chain. no loops. into the amp input. 

i designed my tone based on that system - what does x sound like when it is plugged into y when plugged into z.   

 

other people looked at me and were like "where's your loops, you need to use a dozen cables and tap dance over wires to avoid tripping" 

 

(but that was before going digital. now there is no amp.) 

 

 

 

 

So, then, the question is - why this specific amp? why any amp? you are using a modeler, why plug fake amps into a real amp, why not get some kind of monitor that doesn't add to the tone. sure, sounds like garbage on its own, but lets your modeled tone shine. Or are you trying to use the amp as part of the tone? 

 

 

[pianoguyy]

1 hour ago, Chuckusa said:

I know the emulated output won't sound as crisp and lively as a real mic in front of the amp speaker.

 

 

says who

[Chuckusa]

22 hours ago, pianoguyy said:

 

says who

 

I just figured from the youtube demos I seen. The sound differed quite a bit mic'd vs DI / USB....  

[Chuckusa]

22 hours ago, hurghanico said:

 

Connect the POD to the amp input only if you use it just for the effects (ie no amp models)..

 

You could put the POD in the FX LOOP of the tube amp no problem (let say just for using some effects and not amp models) but some effect models like overdrives and distortions would be in bad position in the chain, since usually they should be placed between the guitar and the pre-amp (real or modeled)..

I would rather suggest to connect your guitar to the POD and the POD to the RETURN input of the tube amp.

 

Doing so you, ie basically bypassing just the tube amp pre-amp, you could then nicely combine several HD pre-amp models with the real power-amp and speaker of the tube amp, plus all the FX models.

 

IMO the above one is the simpler and effective way to connect the POD to a tube amp. Good and easy results are guarantee.

 

In the above configuration you should preferably select the pre-amp version of the amp models available and disable the cab models.

 

But if you don't want to bypass the pre-amp part of your amp (and you are not interested in using instead the pre-amp models), you should instead use the 4 cable method, which is a more flexible way of working but as its name says it requires 4 cables and more tweakings to work good.

 

You can easily find several posts around about the 4CM if you are interested to it.

 

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All about POD HD500/X

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I want to use a POD bean pedal for the usb so I can jam along to sounds coming from my PC... I also want the convenience of adjusting my effects via computer with the mouse and not have to be towering over the little buttons of the POD, I got big clumsy hands lol...  Lastly I want to enjoy the sweet sound of a tube amp. 

[hurghanico]

1 hour ago, Chuckusa said:

 

I want to use a POD bean pedal for the usb so I can jam along to sounds coming from my PC... I also want the convenience of adjusting my effects via computer with the mouse and not have to be towering over the little buttons of the POD, I got big clumsy hands lol...  Lastly I want to enjoy the sweet sound of a tube amp. 

 

Backing tracks playback through a guitar amp certainly would be a quite bad solution.

 

Therefore if you prefer to use a real tube amp with the POD, the backing track playback should be done through flat response monitors/speakers connected to your PC integrated sound card or to an external audio interface other than the POD in this case.

 

In any case you could still use the Editor to tweak the parameters of your POD connected through USB even if you're not using it as audio interface.

 

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[pianoguyy]

1 hour ago, Chuckusa said:

 

I just figured from the youtube demos I seen. The sound differed quite a bit mic'd vs DI / USB....  

 

you're not going to find me getting into the debate over "real vs memorex" again

 

but .... we just need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples instead of apples to automobiles with apple car play 

same room sound 

air push 

cd sound

pa sound 

computer speaker sound from a youtube video sound

 

take that microphone and move it an inch and it sounds totally different 

keep that microphone at the same spot but turn up the amp and it sounds totally different

keep that microphone at the same spot but use a different mic and it will sound totally different

 

 

the list of variables is endless 

 

 

so I will leave it at this - 

the sound comes from one user and is heard by another user, and could even have users making adjustments in between the two. 

what I create may be different than what you hear which would lead to some odd results when you try to reproduce it for me to hear. 

 

as long as you have decent gear and know how to work it, you should be able to create indistinguishable tones 

[Chuckusa]

3 hours ago, hurghanico said:

 

Backing tracks playback through a guitar amp certainly would be a quite bad solution.

 

Therefore if you prefer to use a real tube amp with the POD, the backing track playback should be done through flat response monitors/speakers connected to your PC integrated sound card or to an external audio interface other than the POD in this case.

 

In any case you could still use the Editor to tweak the parameters of your POD connected through USB even if you're not using it as audio interface.

 

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When you say backing track playback, do you mean listening to the jam track and playing along with it using the amp to hear the sound?

 

I just thought thats what the amp was suppose to be used for, it having a usb output and all.... Im still new to recording and to be honest, I am not very good at it.. :(

 

My ultimate goal out of all of this is to play a sound coming out of my computer like a backing track, then play along to it with a tube amp and record the sound... and have it sound good.... I don't want to have to save the track I play then paste it into the backing track.... thats a hassle to me and I would rather just record my noodles and experiment with different sounds and have fun.... and catch a glimpse of what I sound like sometimes by recording it to see how bad I sound lol...

[pianoguyy]

45 minutes ago, Chuckusa said:

When you say backing track playback, do you mean listening to the jam track and playing along with it using the amp to hear the sound?

 

 

jam tracks, like what is built in to some amps - ok (they're built in, of course they are safe) 

but streaming random songs from spotify through a guitar amp - bad mojo

 

guitar amps are designed for guitar - the frequency range 

and there are even some debates as to if multiple tones at the same time will damage a cone - like having drums beating while the guitar is playing while the voice is singing 

 

for something like that you would want something designed for the full range

[hurghanico]

8 hours ago, Chuckusa said:

 

When you say backing track playback, do you mean listening to the jam track and playing along with it using the amp to hear the sound?

 

I just thought thats what the amp was suppose to be used for, it having a usb output and all.... Im still new to recording and to be honest, I am not very good at it.. :(

 

My ultimate goal out of all of this is to play a sound coming out of my computer like a backing track, then play along to it with a tube amp and record the sound... and have it sound good.... I don't want to have to save the track I play then paste it into the backing track.... thats a hassle to me and I would rather just record my noodles and experiment with different sounds and have fun.... and catch a glimpse of what I sound like sometimes by recording it to see how bad I sound lol...

 

Yes, by saying backing tracks I meant to say jam tracks, same thing.

 

The point is that if you want to use the POD to hear at the same time both the jam tracks and your live playing, ideally you shouldn't connect the POD to a tube amp, but you can if you want, if you do it the jam tracks will not sound at their best for sure, but your guitar will do.

 

That's why if you want an all in one solution ideally it would be better to connect the POD to flat response monitors (if you know what I mean) instead of to a tube amp (not really suited also for jam tracks playback).

 

So, given that you prefer to use a real tube amp for your guitar tone, ideally/at least the playback of the jam tracks should be done not through the POD but through a different audio interface and flat response speakers.

 

But if you don't really care that the jam tracks sound lo-fi you can use the POD connected to a tube amp for both jam tracks playback and live guitar sound. You won't be arrested.

 

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[Chuckusa]

9 hours ago, hurghanico said:

 

So, given that you prefer to use a real tube amp for your guitar tone, ideally/at least the playback of the jam tracks should be done not through the POD but through a different audio interface and flat response speakers.

 

 

 

Could you recommend me some budget priced audio interfaces and flat response speakers I should try out, so I can get an idea of what I could be looking for and doing?

I would like to try out this method you mentioned and still run my POD through my tube amp, then into a different audio interface with flat response speakers... 

Could you describe this setup in a little more detail please? Lol iv been messing with music gear for years but am still stupid with it lmao.... Just a slow learner I guess...

I just want to understand how I am going to run my guitar into my pod, into my tube amp, then into another interface and flat response speakers.... and still record the sound of my guitar with the jam track playing into my PC...

 

Some example of set ups needed would be great... Sorry I just need the extra help to understand... 

Quote

 

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[Kilrahi]

53 minutes ago, Chuckusa said:

 

 

 

Could you recommend me some budget priced audio interfaces and flat response speakers I should try out, so I can get an idea of what I could be looking for and doing?

I would like to try out this method you mentioned and still run my POD through my tube amp, then into a different audio interface with flat response speakers... 

Could you describe this setup in a little more detail please? Lol iv been messing with music gear for years but am still stupid with it lmao.... Just a slow learner I guess...

I just want to understand how I am going to run my guitar into my pod, into my tube amp, then into another interface and flat response speakers.... and still record the sound with my PC...

 

Some example of set ups needed would be great... Sorry I just need the extra help to understand... 

 

 

All he's really saying is equivalent to "You should hear songs through a standard stereo speaker system." 

 

That's it. So the "audio interface" can be something as simple as your phone, or any music player. The "flat response speakers" really just have to be standard speakers used for music players. 

 

In the guitar world, a very popular brand of cheap full range speakers are the Headrush FRFR like the 108 (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FRFR108--headrush-frfr-108-2000-watt-1x8-inch-powered-guitar-cabinet).  You really don't have to go even that pricey, though, for just listening to music. It just depends on how picky you are. 

 

Whatever the case though, the point is hearing a song through a guitar amp will sound like melted butt because the guitar amp will cut off a lot of the frequencies of the song (particularly the higher range stuff). 

 

The hard part is sending it all through the Pod because you want the jam tracks to go to the stereo system, and the guitar to go to the tube amp. I don't actually think the Pod will let you do something that complex. You can send it all to a tube amp, or all of it to an FRFR. As far as I know, you can't do both. 

 

Still, I  haven't had my Pod in quite some time, Maybe the advanced users will tell me I'm wrong on that one. 

 

 

[Chuckusa]

19 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

All he's really saying is equivalent to "You should hear songs through a standard stereo speaker system." 

 

That's it. So the "audio interface" can be something as simple as your phone, or any music player. The "flat response speakers" really just have to be standard speakers used for music players. 

 

In the guitar world, a very popular brand of cheap full range speakers are the Headrush FRFR like the 108 (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FRFR108--headrush-frfr-108-2000-watt-1x8-inch-powered-guitar-cabinet).  You really don't have to go even that pricey, though, for just listening to music. It just depends on how picky you are. 

 

Whatever the case though, the point is hearing a song through a guitar amp will sound like melted butt because the guitar amp will cut off a lot of the frequencies of the song (particularly the higher range stuff). 

 

The hard part is sending it all through the Pod because you want the jam tracks to go to the stereo system, and the guitar to go to the tube amp. I don't actually think the Pod will let you do something that complex. You can send it all to a tube amp, or all of it to an FRFR. As far as I know, you can't do both. 

 

Still, I  haven't had my Pod in quite some time, Maybe the advanced users will tell me I'm wrong on that one. 

Alright here is an experiment you could say lol.... Could I:

 

run my guitar into the pod, the pod into the tube amp, run the output from the effects loop into another pedal that has usb like a Digitech RP150 or something... then link up the jam track to play out of the RP150 through usb with the guitar playing along and record from the RP150? and hear it out of my pc speakers...? 

 

Im glad you guys understand my goal and thats to record me playing along with the jam track... with a tube amp... with a usb.... why usb? I want to use my computer to record me playing my pod through a tube amp along with a jam track...  God this is making me dizzy lmao.....

 

But lets say for a minute.... the peavey valveking II 20 has usb output AND speaker defeat.... Could I essentially play my guitar to the pod, to the amp, defeat the amp speaker and run the resulting sound of the amp through the usb silently and use my computer sound system to monitor the resulting sound? And if so, would it sound worth a darN? Lol

Quote

 

 

[Kilrahi]

Okay let me take a crack at this:

 

1. Digitech 150 - It's hard for me to comment on this as I've never owned a Digitech. Is it possible?  Yeah, it's possible assuming it has the ability to interface with a DAW (which from quickly looking at it it does) and if in addition to accepting a guitar signal it has another input for accepting a jam track of some kind (for this I couldn't see one - can it accept it via USB at the SAME time it tries to record?). Also, if it can accept a guitar signal, can you have all of its effects off so that it doesn't impact the sound created by your HD 500x and tube amp? 

 

In short, there's a lot of what ifs, and it sounds like a lot could go wrong. Maybe, though, you'd strike pay dirt. That happens sometimes. 

 

2. Peavey valveking II 20 w/speaker defeat - Yeah this is also possible BUT . . .

 

 

The real gist of it is this - and yes, this is my opinion so take it as you want, but it's meant kindly. I think you're trying to mix two different goals that are best kept separate (jamming and recording). In my opinion, there is NO way to catch the "sweet sweet tube amp sound" which, as far as I can tell, is actually a feeling, not a sound, by recording it. The moment you mic one up that "sweet sweet sound" is no longer present on the recording as far as I can tell. Plus, in all of the scenarios you describe, you aren't even mic'ing it up - which is the only legitimate way to even attempt to capture a tube amp sound -  which means you'll just be getting a digital emulation of your amp anyway (particularly in option number 2). 

 

My suggestion would be when you want to jam, JAM! Turn on a stereo, and play with your guitar, through your Pod, into your tube amp.  No recording, unless you plan on actually mic'ing up your live performance. 

 

When you want to record, focus on that. Set your Pod to the best amp emulation you can and record that straight into your DAW. Or, if you really want to be a purist, figure out how to mic the sounds of your guitar amp and get that transferred into your DAW. If you try and mix and match goals I don't think you'll ever be happy, and you'll probably end up with half assed versions of jamming, and half assed versions of recording. 

 

 

[hurghanico]

2 hours ago, Chuckusa said:

Could you recommend me some budget priced audio interfaces and flat response speakers I should try out, so I can get an idea of what I could be looking for and doing?

I would like to try out this method you mentioned and still run my POD through my tube amp, then into a different audio interface with flat response speakers... 

Could you describe this setup in a little more detail please? Lol iv been messing with music gear for years but am still stupid with it lmao.... Just a slow learner I guess...

I just want to understand how I am going to run my guitar into my pod, into my tube amp, then into another interface and flat response speakers.... and still record the sound of my guitar with the jam track playing into my PC...

 

Some example of set ups needed would be great... Sorry I just need the extra help to understand...

 

I'm not going to suggest any specific brand of audio interfaces and monitors/speakers..
There are so many that could be chosen.

 

All can I say is that nowdays an external and minimal audio interface could cost about 100 bucks new, but you can easily find used ones for much less, just first check carefully that its drivers are still updated to work with your PC current OS.

 

There are basically 2 main paths which could be followed, which one depending on:
1 - if you want to record your performances by micing the tube amp
2 - if you want just to jam along the jam tracks without recording

 

Case 1 (recording) is more complex because you need to mic (yes, you need also a mic) the real tube amp, and the miced signal should go into an external interface (you need one) and then recorded in a recording software (DAW).

 

Case 2 (just jamming along, no recording) is much simpler, since the jam tracks playback could be simply managed by your PC with its integrated sound card connected to some decent speakers/monitors, better their quality/power and better the results of course.

And your guitar connected to the POD in turn connected to the RETURN of the tube amp.

 

All that said it's worth mentioning that when recording, a miced tube amp hardly will sound better than any of the available full models, which have been captured in a professional way and are ready to use especially for recording.

 

The beautiful amp in the room full feeling never gets tranferred in a recording.

 

Whatever you do live, when you listen to a recording what you'll hear is always a miced sound (real or modeled) which even if resembles the original one (if you used the real amp) is still different in its own way.

 

Funny example:
if I record a message in an answering machine anyone who knows me well can immediately recognize that it is me, but my voice still sounds quite different live (fortunately in this case, I would say)..

 

How many times your voice have been recorded, and then listening back you had the reaction: but that's really me?

 

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[Chuckusa]

 

I have ran into the power amp with the pod and it worked nice. I am going to try out the just effects loop with the POD's effects and run my overdrives and distortions through the input. Thanks for all the helps board!