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Helix Floor Volume Knob Usage


pvandorp
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Hi everyone,

 

I have a Helix Floor unit and in December I'll be using it for my first ever gig. I've been looking into Volume Leveling of patches and presets, but I can't seem to find any (pleasing) information about how to use the Volume knob on the Helix.

 

The information I found so far suggests I should turn the Volume knob al the way up as I plug the Helix in Front-of-House (PA) and adjust it to get the right volume. Now, I've been told that at the venue of the gig there will be a mic'ed up Marshall half stack where I can plug the Helix Output into the FX Loop's Return to make use of the power section of the Amp (Front-of-House would probably not work out for some reason). I also should bypass any Speaker emulation in the Helix because it will sound weird this way.

 

I tried a similar setup last night and found that my overall Volume went way up. I needed to set the Master Volume on the Amp to 1 and the Volume knob on the Helix to around 10 o'clock and that was already louder than before. Is this normal? Can anyone point me to good information about the use of the Volume knob on the Helix?

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The information you found about having the volume all the way up on the Helix is a valid recommendation for a typical setup which would be the Helix going direct to the FOH, but going through a mic'd up Marshall and not using speaker emulation isn't a typical setup.  It might be fine for someone not using a modeler, but you lose a lot of the benefit of the Helix in doing so.  But apparently the sound crew on the gig is either lazy or still living in 1999.  There's absolutely no reason you couldn't go direct to FOH if your sound crew wasn't retarded.

I have my Helix volume knob disengaged for my XLR outputs and I have my XLR outputs set to Mic level signal strength rather than Line level (the default) which makes it the same as all other inputs going into the mixing board (voices, drums, etc).  Having the ooutput on the Helix set this way allows the amp model volume settings to be more consistent with a real amp model and their volumes can be managed using the channel volume on the amp model which won't affect your tone, only your volume.  There is no real consistency in the way different amp manufacturers set up their FX Loop returns, but you might try lowering the output signal level on your 1/4" out that goes into the Marshall to either Instrument level or Mic level to see it that helps with your overall volume level on the Marshall.

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2 hours ago, pvandorp said:

Now, I've been told that at the venue of the gig there will be a mic'ed up Marshall half stack where I can plug the Helix Output into the FX Loop's Return to make use of the power section of the Amp (Front-of-House would probably not work out for some reason). I also should bypass any Speaker emulation in the Helix because it will sound weird this way.

 

So be it... if that's what you "have to do" then you have to work with it. I try to pick my battles... this wouldn't be one of them. 

 

IMO... this is how I would approach it...

  • Save all the presets you use into a new location with the cab/mic modeling disengaged. (leave the amp model engaged). This way you are not messing with your real presets. 
  • Global Settings: Set the 1/4" output to "instrument level" (this can change later if needed)
  • Global Settings: Set the Volume Control to 1/4" outputs only
  • TURN DOWN THE HELIX VOLUME FOR NOW! 
  • Keep everything on the marshall turned down... if the Master Volume is needed turn it up to at least half. I suggest this because you want to make sure the power in the Marshall stays clean - allowing the Helix to do it's job.... adjust as needed, but I'd start with it fairly high.
  • Now turn up the Helix as required for the show. If you find you have to run the Helix too loud, turn the master MV up more. 
  • NOTE: Unlikely, but If you cannot get enough volume from the Helix.... turn it down then set the Global > 1/4" outputs to LINE and slowly turn up the Helix again. It will be a lot louder! 
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On 10/30/2019 at 1:17 PM, DunedinDragon said:

But apparently the sound crew on the gig is either lazy or still living in 1999.  There's absolutely no reason you couldn't go direct to FOH if your sound crew wasn't retarded.

 

Thanks for your reply. That's what I thought. I'll tell them that ;-). I just want to be prepared for when I get there.

 

On 10/30/2019 at 1:34 PM, codamedia said:
  • Save all the presets you use into a new location with the cab/mic modeling disengaged. (leave the amp model engaged). This way you are not messing with your real presets. 
  • Global Settings: Set the 1/4" output to "instrument level" (this can change later if needed)
  • Global Settings: Set the Volume Control to 1/4" outputs only
  • TURN DOWN THE HELIX VOLUME FOR NOW! 
  • Keep everything on the marshall turned down... if the Master Volume is needed turn it up to at least half. I suggest this because you want to make sure the power in the Marshall stays clean - allowing the Helix to do it's job.... adjust as needed, but I'd start with it fairly high.
  • Now turn up the Helix as required for the show. If you find you have to run the Helix too loud, turn the master MV up more. 
  • NOTE: Unlikely, but If you cannot get enough volume from the Helix.... turn it down then set the Global > 1/4" outputs to LINE and slowly turn up the Helix again. It will be a lot louder! 

 

Excellent! I'll give this a try. Getting enough Volume will definitely not be the issue. It will be more about the amount of Volume that will be added with the slightest movement of the Volume knob on the Helix. I found that it becomes very sensitive and will increase the Volume a lot at the slightest touch. 

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2 hours ago, pvandorp said:

I found that it becomes very sensitive and will increase the Volume a lot at the slightest touch. 

 

My 2nd bullet point is very important in this regard. Make sure the 1/4" outputs are set to "instrument level" in the global settings. 

 

IME, when I run into the power amp input of an amp I run my Helix Volume around 1 o'clock, give or take a little. I always have plenty of room to go either way if needed. When I go direct my XLR's are set to "mic level" in the global settings, and they are decoupled from the volume control (eg: they are wide open). 

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2 hours ago, codamedia said:

My 2nd bullet point is very important in this regard. Make sure the 1/4" outputs are set to "instrument level" in the global settings. 

 

Thanks! I just tested it and that works perfectly. Now the Volume Knob is not so sensitive and I can play with the Volume on the Helix and on the Amp to get the desired sound.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Btw. +

On 10/30/2019 at 1:17 PM, DunedinDragon said:

But apparently the sound crew on the gig is either lazy or still living in 1999.

 

I asked my source again and he explained to me it was not so much that it wasn't possible to run through FOH, but more the fact that I wouldn't be able to hear myself. At that venue the monitor situation apparently sucks. So it makes sense to do it this way so at least I have the output of the Amp blowing at my knees :-D.

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From the offset, no, or poor monitoring ,denotes a recipe for disaster imo.

A monitor is your lifeline on stage, and  the value of a good monitor should never be underestimated , as i've done gigs with poor, or completely useless ones before, and not enjoyed those gigs at all.

No sound engineer worth his salt would put a performer ,or band, up on stage without good monitoring.

 

Putting myself in your shoes, i'd want something familiar sounding, and would tend to concentrate more on what the Helix can offer.

It can sound immense through a pa ,and mine is set up so that it's at it's best sounding with all the foh mixer controls set flat, that way there is less time spent tweaking the sound at a gig.

 

Simplest set up for me would be 4cm on the Marshall with no fx loop block added in the Helix , so bypassing the Marshall's preamp ,and don't get hung up about switching off speaker sim either, if it sounds good,..then use it , i use mine in that way with a Mesa amp ,and find that it sounds great even with the speaker sims left in.

Use the vol knob to control just 1/4 outs ,as you definitely don't want to touch the foh sound .

You will then effectively disable the Marshall's volume controls, and instead make the Helix vol control ,your amp volume control, and if you've balanced all your tones properly ,then you should have no issues...

 

...Unfortunately if you start turning the amp up too much ,this will undoubtably have a knock on effect with the other musicians, and you may end up with a volume war on stage ,which is never a good idea,..so yes,...good monitoring.

 

 

 

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