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HX Effects / Hughes & Kettner GrandMeister 40


willman100
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I have been trying to figure out how I can use the HX Effects to create and save patches with snapshots. It is easy to create a patch between the GM40 and the HX Effects but there is latency. This is of course what snapshots was designed to fix. Problem is that I can’t get snapshots to integrate properly with the GM40.

I watched a great video on YouTube. Someone figured out how to make snapshots work with the Tubemeister and the full fledged Helix. I tried to use this approach on the HX Effects, but I couldn’t get it to work. I eventually gave up.

What I would like to accomplish is: use a boost from the HX Effects in front of the amp maybe some effects after and of course use the midi implementation to change channels and effects from within patches.

If anyone has had success please let me know.

Thanks

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I'm not really clear what you're trying to do. First, terminology.

 

We're talking about patches - 4cm is a patch - and presets - there's presets on the HX FX and presets on the GM40 - and snapshots, which are HX FX preset variations.

 

The GM40 can save complete amp configurations as presets, recalled with MIDI PC#s. The manual isn't clear on the range, 0-127 or 1-128.

You can also control individual amp settings using MIDI CC#s 0-127 and Values.

Any of that can be done using HX FX Command Center and snapshots.

 

I have no idea if there is detectable latency in the GM40 (I don't own one) when switching presets. Since that can only be done via MIDI, there'll always be the tiny amount of latency inherent in MIDI, usually undetectable. HX FX snapshots are instant, though there could be a small amount of latency when switching HX FX presets.

 

I have helped others with the H&K MIDI switching, and they didn't mention any latency problems.

 

All that said, if you describe what EXACTLY you are trying to do, using specific terminology for the different components of your rig, I'll be happy to help.

 

Start with the PATCH (4cm). How exactly are you wired? It should be (with basic HX FX preset signal path):

 

Guitar > HX FX Left/Mono IN > HX FX PRE Effects (Boost, dist, etc) > HX FX Loop Block > HX FX Loop Send > GM40 Input > GM40 FX Loop Send > HX FX Loop Return > 

HX FX POST Effects (delay, reverb, etc) > HX FX 1/4" Left/Mono Out > GM 40 FX Loop Return

 

I bolded the HX FX Loop Block because it's the thing most commonly overlooked. Note the specific terminology.

 

Snapshots:

 

In Global Settings - Preferences - set Snapshot Edits to RECALL. If you don't, every time you change a snapshot setting you MUST save the preset BEFORE moving to another snapshot, or your changes will be lost! When playing live, you may or may not want live changes to a snapshot to persist between snapshots. If you don't, be sure to remember to change the Snapshot Edits setting to DISCARD after you're through programming.

 

Command Center:

 

The lightning bolts are INSTANT COMMANDS and are executed when the snapshot is loaded. The snapshot that loads when the preset is called will be the snapshot you were on when the preset is saved. Each time you select or return to a snapshot, the ICs will be sent, IF there's been a change. For instance, if Snapshot 1 sends PC#003, and Snapshot 2 sends PC# 125, then returning to Snapshot 1 will resend PC#003. If Snapshot 2 also sends PC#003, NO MIDI MESSAGE WILL BE sent either when loading Snapshot 2 from Snapshot 1 OR when returning to Snapshot 1 from Snapshot 2! That means that the GM40 will only load preset 003 IF it's been changed to another preset, it won't reload unless it's been changed.

 

If the above info doesn't solve your problems, get back to me.

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Thanks rd2rk,

 

I will try my best to explain this as clearly as I can. 

 

I have other tube amps and a Katana but 

I purchased the GM40 because I was looking for a tube amp that has effects and midi. 
 

The issues I am having are as follows. 

The GM40 is not tight enough for my style music, so I added my modded 808 in front of it to tighten it up. This left the issue of not being able to use the midi foot switch the way I would have liked  because, now in order to go from a high gain channel to a clean channel, I would have to step on the midi controller and the 808. To me this defeated the purpose. I wanted a midi controller that I was able to add a pedal or two, change channels and recall saved presets. 
 

So after doing some research I narrowed it down to a few choices. Boss MS-3 which has built in effects and three loops. Problem was that the loops are fixed so they can’t be moved and in the 4cm it sucked tone. That was out. The Boss ES-5 or ES-8 but those were overkill. 
 

I was speaking with some guys at my local music store are one of them suggested the HX Effects. He said it is just like the Helix minus the amp modeling. 
 

So I will try apply the instructions from your post and see if I can get it working the way I would like. 
 

My goal is to be able to use the HX Effects to control my amp via midi and if I like the built in 808 I will use that. I want to be able to stomp on a foot switch have the amp change to the appropriate channel but also have it recall my settings that I programmed in the amp. This is where my terminology is unclear. 
 

Thanks for your help. I hope that was clear enough and makes sense. 
 

 

 

 

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When you save a preset on the GM40, it saves the entire state of the amp, including the desired channel and any effects, tone settings, etc.

You'll want to go into Global Settings, MIDI/Tempo, and turn OFF MIDI PC Tx. This prevents the HX FX from sending the default PC#.

Using an Instant Command in Command Center, you assign the PC# to which you've saved your desired amp state.

You wire it up using 4cm as I described. That uses one of your two FX Loops.

 

If you want to use your 808 with that preset, you put your second FX Loop Block First in the signal chain (or wherever you want the 808), with the 808 in the Loop and turned ON. If you then SAVE the preset with the Loop ON, the 808 will be in the chain and ON when the preset loads. You can assign a footswitch to turn that FX Loop ON/OFF.

 

EDIT: The 808 and the amp input expect Instrument Level signals, so in Global Settings, be sure that the Sends are set to Instrument.

 

NOTE that all the snapshots in that preset will have the Loop ON UNLESS you save a snapshot with the Loop OFF. If Snapshot Edits is set to RECALL, it will then be OFF until you turn it on again or reload the preset.

 

You may find that using your 808 like this doesn't sound right. AFAIK (if I'm wrong about this I'm sure someone will chime in and correct me), the Input of the HX FX is 1 mega-ohm impedance. That's like plugging your guitar straight into the amp's input. The 808 has a lower input impedance, which "loads" the guitar's pickups differently, and is part of the sound. Try yours, try the HX FX version, try some of the other overdrives. Lots of choices.

 

CC#31 + VALUE will switch channels. Although the manual is not clear about this, the value is probably determined by dividing 128 by 4 and using a value from the range desired. For instance, 0-31 is probably Clean, 32-64 = Drive, etc.. Or, it could just be 1-2-3-4. You'll have to experiment. You can change the Channel without switching GM40 presets (I think). Just assign the CC# and Value to a footswitch. Use non-toggling CC#s, because (IIRC) Toggling CCs are sent on preset load and follow the same recall rules as the ICs.

 

It's late. I sleep now. Let me know how it goes.

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Hello rd2rk,

 

so I have followed your instructions and it does indeed work. Thank You. 
 

I have created 3 snapshots. I used the lightning bolts as instructed in “Command Center” assigned it to the correct pc# which corresponds to my saved amp state. It switches amp channels instantaneously.  My issue now is that in order to get to my 3 snapshots I have to press the bank up and down together (which is not the issue. The issue is as soon as I press on snapshot 1 it goes back to the default screen that shows the presets, then I have to press the two banks again ever time to get to snapshots mode in order to get to either snapshot 2 or 3. 
 

What am I doing wrong?
 

Thanks

 

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From the manual, Page 40, Global Settings, Switches:

 

Global Settings > Switches

Page 1
1-Stomp Select
When set to "Touch," touching a Stomp mode switch selects its assigned item(s) but pressing doesn't. When set to "Press," pressing a Stomp mode switch selects its assigned item(s) but touching doesn't (helpful if you insist on playing barefoot). When set to "Both", either touching or pressing will select the assigned item.

 

2-Stomp Mode
By default, Stomp footswitch mode displays 6 stomps. You may also choose "4 Switch", which replaces FS1 and FS4 with and switches.

3-Preset Mode
When set to "Moment[ary]," the HX Effects device returns to Stomp mode as soon as a Preset (or Snapshot) switch is pressed. When set to "Latch[ing]," the HX Effects device stays in Preset (or Snapshot) mode and the user must press MODE to switch back to Stomp mode.


Page 2
1-Snpsht Mode
When set to "Moment[ary]," the HX Effects device returns to Preset mode (or Stomp mode if Pg 1 > Knob 3 [Preset Mode] is set to "Moment[ary]") after selecting a snapshot. When set to "Latch[ing]," the HX Effects unit stays in Snapshot mode until pressing + to return to Preset mode (or MODE/EDIT/EXIT to return to Stomp mode).

 

2-Up/Dn Switch
When set to "Preset" or "Snapsht," FS1 (BANK ) and FS4 (BANK ) change to PRESET / or SNAPSHOT /, where pressing either switch instantly selects the next/previous preset or snapshot, without a bank queue. This is useful if you've programmed a fixed set list for your show, and just want to increment through presets or snapshots. At any time, press and hold both FS1 () and FS4 () to cycle through BANK / , PRESET / , and SNAPSHOT /.
 

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