gearmana Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Greetings! So, I decided to dabble in the digital world a touch. I went ahead and avoided FRFR for now, since I already have a 2x12 Lonestar cab with C90s in it. I followed Line 6's video for going to Power amp and then Cab. Basically, hooked it up and changed the output to line level. I decided just to go through some of the presets (the DIR ones) like the Litigator, Archetype, etc... One thing I've read is that you should either disable the cab block or change from A+C to just amp. I've noticed that, at least for the presets, getting rid of the cab block simply makes it sound like a can of bees. It actually sounds BETTER in every single preset with the cab enabled. I'm sure there are 1000 factors here, but this just seems odd since I figured it would be the opposite. I still have hours and hours of playing with this thing to do, so no biggie, but I figured it was worth at least bringing up. Time to build some presets from scratch, methinks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 If it sounds good TO YOU, then it IS good! No rules! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearmana Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, rd2rk said: If it sounds good TO YOU, then it IS good! No rules! For sure. I was just curious as to why that may be. That said, I am off to create presets officially now. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loydall Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I run my HX Stomp into a power amp (Orange Pedal Baby) and then into a 2x12 cab so very similar setup. I've never liked the sound of any patch with a cab block in it through this set up. But - I pretty much always build my patches up from scratch so every block I add serves a purpose for the poweramp-cab set up... as in - all my patches are tailored for that set up rather than hoping a pre-made/demo patch will sound good. For a while I've been using an amp block in my chain (not amp + cab, just amp) and adding other blocks/effects around that. Originally I compared using a pramp block vs an amp block and always thought the amp block sounded "better" than just a preamp block - they gave a fuller sound.... But - I started playing around with the preamp blocks and, with a bit of work, I'm finding I get better (to my ears) results in the end. The preamp-only route feels like a cleaner base to work on - i get a more manageable tone from it.. there was something about the amp blocks that I found harder to tame - it was very subtle but if I wasn't careful the amp blocks could get a little wild. I'll have another go with Cab blocks tonight but I've never heard one that sounded great going through a poweramp and then onto another cab. Give preamp blocks a go and slowly and carefully build your tone up around one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearmana Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, loydall said: I run my HX Stomp into a power amp (Orange Pedal Baby) and then into a 2x12 cab so very similar setup. I've never liked the sound of any patch with a cab block in it through this set up. But - I pretty much always build my patches up from scratch so every block I add serves a purpose for the poweramp-cab set up... as in - all my patches are tailored for that set up rather than hoping a pre-made/demo patch will sound good. For a while I've been using an amp block in my chain (not amp + cab, just amp) and adding other blocks/effects around that. Originally I compared using a pramp block vs an amp block and always thought the amp block sounded "better" than just a preamp block - they gave a fuller sound.... But - I started playing around with the preamp blocks and, with a bit of work, I'm finding I get better (to my ears) results in the end. The preamp-only route feels like a cleaner base to work on - i get a more manageable tone from it.. there was something about the amp blocks that I found harder to tame - it was very subtle but if I wasn't careful the amp blocks could get a little wild. I'll have another go with Cab blocks tonight but I've never heard one that sounded great going through a poweramp and then onto another cab. Give preamp blocks a go and slowly and carefully build your tone up around one. Right on, man! I messed around a bit more last night, and I think maybe my ears were just adjusting to the Stomp, because after a while, I found myself much preferring the cab sims off. That said, I haven't messed with the pre-amps yet. I'll give that a go today! I'm tempted to grab a Powercab Plus just to see how it compares to the power amp + cab method. Something tells me this is going to very quickly lead to me getting a Helix Floor. :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Some things to consider when choosing modeled preamps vs power amps. Just as there's an interaction between a tube poweramp and a speaker, there's an interaction between a preamp and the poweramp it was designed to be used with, and that is part of the amp's signature sound and feel. A Marshall with EL34's, a Vox with EL84's, a Fender with 6L6's, etc.. L6 has attempted to model that interaction, and feeding your modeled Marshall preamp separately through any real world poweramp completely loses that interaction, along with the signature sound and "feel" of playing through that amp. When you use a complete Amp+Cab Block, you're hearing L6's attempt to model the sound and feel of all 4 (preamp, poweramp, cab and mic) components' interactions. IN THEORY, the modeled Amp+Cab(+mic) sound through a full range speaker SHOULD be the most accurate representation of that combination, with no extraneous frequencies that wouldn't exist in the real world. Everything after the modeled pre/power amp, INCLUDING MODELED SPEAKERS, MICS AND IRs, is just EQ until you get to the physical playback system. The physical playback system is the final determinant of the nature of the sound that reaches your ears, but has little to do with the "feel" of playing the amp. Just like when you mic a guitar amp through a PA system. The best you can do is to find the most neutral amp and speaker combination possible and EQ it to taste. A note about FRFR, AITR and "moving air". If you hear a sound, it's because air is moving. That's why there's no sound in a vacuum. True FRFR in a system that's practical for a guitarist to use is a myth. Only the "full range (of human hearing)" part is possible (in practice). AITR just means that the mechanical device that's moving the air sounds like a guitar cab, not a PA speaker. DISCLAIMER: If it Sounds good, to YOU, it IS good! IMHO, YMMV, In a Perfect world, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearmana Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Oh man, I DEFINITELY prefer FRFR after messing with it today. I think I just absolutely love getting new IR's and trying them out. Things felt so limited with the Power Amp -> Cab setup. Officially selling my Power Stage 170 to fund some stereo FRFR goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loydall Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 12 hours ago, gearmana said: Oh man, I DEFINITELY prefer FRFR after messing with it today. I think I just absolutely love getting new IR's and trying them out. Things felt so limited with the Power Amp -> Cab setup. Officially selling my Power Stage 170 to fund some stereo FRFR goodness. I actually went the other way round - initially really liked FRFR with its polished sound and all the options I had with IR and Cab blocks... but after a while I missed the "real" amp sound (plenty of discussion on this topic and it's all personal preference). Also - you say "Things felt so limited with the Power Amp -> Cab setup." - in the end it was this simplicity that I really liked. I still have the effects/amp/preamp blocks to play around with in helix but much of the time I keep things simple and I think things sound better for it. I wouldn't go selling that PowerStage 170 too quickly - that thing is killer and you may miss it after the honeymoon period with FRFR is over... Then again you may go FRFR and never look back - it's all personal preference and really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearmana Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 hours ago, loydall said: I actually went the other way round - initially really liked FRFR with its polished sound and all the options I had with IR and Cab blocks... but after a while I missed the "real" amp sound (plenty of discussion on this topic and it's all personal preference). Also - you say "Things felt so limited with the Power Amp -> Cab setup." - in the end it was this simplicity that I really liked. I still have the effects/amp/preamp blocks to play around with in helix but much of the time I keep things simple and I think things sound better for it. I wouldn't go selling that PowerStage 170 too quickly - that thing is killer and you may miss it after the honeymoon period with FRFR is over... Then again you may go FRFR and never look back - it's all personal preference and really. I'm going to hold onto it a bit longer, for sure. I actually have been holding off on the FRFR because I wanted the little Laney LFR-112 but it wasn't in stock anywhere... until this morning! Checked Zzounds and they had 2. I went ahead and ordered it and it should be here tomorrow. Looking forward to doing some back and forth with the two. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearmana Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Correction - decided to go with the Tech 21 Deuce Deluxe, instead. A big part of that was simply my loyalty to Sweetwater. That, and I just overall prefer Tech 21 as a company. Will post my thoughts early next week when it arrives. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmonday Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I need to get something that can hold the Stomp, the PowerStage, and the G10 wireless. (Maybe I'll upgrade to the G10S down the line). I don't need anything else. Anyone have pointers on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoBluzGtr Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Here is a video I made almost two years ago of some live gigging patches I had built and still use. This is Helix through a PS170 and a 2X12 cab. These are also built with a split-off routing near the end of the signal chain that has a Cab or IR in it... I set up the global settings so that the Helix Volume control only controls the 1/4" out (which goes to the PS170) and DOES NOT control the XLR output (which goes to FOH). This way I can adjust my stage volume without impacting the FOH/PA mix at all. This avoids needing to mic the cab to get your sound to the PA... a little tweaking and you can have the PA tone sounding essentially identical to the Cab tone. Sound guys love this... they have COMPLETE control over the level of the mix coming from your guitar rig... and you can still adjust things on stage (within reason, of course!) without interfering. Each of these 4 presets is based on a two-amp set up (one amp at a time) in a clean / dirty arrangement, but includes some dirt pedals for color as well. The comments below the video has links to the presets on Customtone, as well, if you want to try any of these out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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