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ledvedder5150

Headrush FRFR-108 or 112 for first FRFR?

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Hi,

I just got my Helix LT, and I'm about to dive into FRFR. I'm not sure what size to get. Many say the 108 is plenty, but I'm just not sure. I also have no way to test them, since my local stores don't stock them. I'd like my choice to be capable of home use, rehearsal with another guitarist and drummer, as well as live use. Sometimes as a back line because some places I play don't have FOH. 

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The 108 and the 112 have identical 2000watt amps. How loud do you need to be?

Two 108s will sound louder than one because, well, twice the speaker. You can also have stereo if you want.

I don't know if two 108s will sound louder than a single 112. I do know that my FRFR112 goes louder that I want to play without good earplugs.

Two FRFR112s could be earth shaking!

I use my FRFR112 at home, in conjunction with a 15 watt tube amp. I live in an apartment, and although they can be EQ'd to compensate for Fletcher-Munson, 60 db peak is about as low as they'll go and still sound good. After 10pm I use my Rokit6 Studio Monitors. Quietly. I suppose that the 108s would work at home the same way. And if you live in a house vs an apartment and aren't worried about waking the kids or being murdered by your wife.......TURN IT UP!

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1 hour ago, ledvedder5150 said:

Hi,

I just got my Helix LT, and I'm about to dive into FRFR. I'm not sure what size to get. Many say the 108 is plenty, but I'm just not sure. I also have no way to test them, since my local stores don't stock them. I'd like my choice to be capable of home use, rehearsal with another guitarist and drummer, as well as live use. Sometimes as a back line because some places I play don't have FOH. 

I have the112 and it sounds good.Cabs usually have a 12 inch speaker so I would go for that if I was you.that is why I went for the 112.

 

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3 minutes ago, ledvedder5150 said:

How do they sound frequency-wise? Can the 108 handle lower frequencies? Does the 112 have a boomy low end? 

 

Someone on TGP tried them (108s) for use with bass and reported vibration noises at higher volume. 

My FRFR112 actually sounds better with my bass than with guitar, not boomy at all.

With guitar, if it sounds boomy, that's what EQ is for.

If boominess is ever a problem with any speaker, a HPF is the sure cure. Simple EQ cures a variety of problems.

If you do decide on the 112, put it up on a short speaker stand to avoid bass coupling with the floor. That's what I do, and it works great!

More expensive speakers have DSP settings to accomodate using them in a floor monitor position vs on stands. Maybe it works. Is it worth an additional $500 to avoid having to EQ yourself? I don't think so. YMMV.

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I play at least once week, sometimes 2, and 90% of the time I use my 12 inch Yamaha DXR.  It just seems to better replicate the sound I get out of most FOH PA speakers.  The only time I use my QSC CP8 is when I play smaller, more intimate venues in which we aren't using the PA for the instruments or if I'm just jamming with someone, and it's more than adequate for those situations.  At home dialing in my presets I always use my DXR12, and it translates just fine to the CP8 if necessary.  I always have my DXR12 or my CP8 mounted behind me in the backline and never as a floor monitor.  I even dial in my tones with the speakers in a vertical position at home. This is true even though both speakers provide a correction for bass coupling in their DSP contouring options.  The reason I do this is that these type of speakers have a very wide sound coverage in the upright vertical position, but a limited horizontal sound coverage if used as a monitor.  This makes it much easier for blending with the rest of the band and I don't have to worry about wandering out of coverage or off-axis when I'm on stage.

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Now we're talking Yamaha and QSC besides Headrush. This is so difficult. I wish there was a store where I could just compare them side by side. 

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9 minutes ago, ledvedder5150 said:

Now we're talking Yamaha and QSC besides Headrush. This is so difficult. I wish there was a store where I could just compare them side by side. 

 

You asked for suggestions for a FIRST FRFR. My first car (1967) was a 57 Ford, NOT a 1967 Cadillac.

It got me from point A to point B.

I still don't need a Cadillac.

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3 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

You asked for suggestions for a FIRST FRFR. My first car (1967) was a 57 Ford, NOT a 1967 Cadillac.

It got me from point A to point B.

I still don't need a Cadillac.

I know. I guess what I ultimately wanted to know was if the Headrush 108 would be enough? 

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2 minutes ago, ledvedder5150 said:

I know. I guess what I ultimately wanted to know was if the Headrush 108 would be enough? 

 

Yes. No. Maybe.

What do YOU want from life?

You know, there ARE Guitar Centers near Philly. They WILL order in whatever you want to try. They have a GREAT return policy.

Order a 108. Try it. Maybe you'll want two. Maybe you'll want to upgrade to a 112. Or a Yamaha or QSC.

They WILL NOT give you a hard time if you return the 108, and they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT give you a hard time if you trade it in for an upgrade. 

You can't lose anything but gas money.

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27 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

Yes. No. Maybe.

What do YOU want from life?

You know, there ARE Guitar Centers near Philly. They WILL order in whatever you want to try. They have a GREAT return policy.

Order a 108. Try it. Maybe you'll want two. Maybe you'll want to upgrade to a 112. Or a Yamaha or QSC.

They WILL NOT give you a hard time if you return the 108, and they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT give you a hard time if you trade it in for an upgrade. 

You can't lose anything but gas money.

 

*squints

 

There is... wisdom in this man's eyes.  

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I have the Headrush 108 and it sounds great with the Helix. Personally I would probably never use anything like it for a paid performance although I suppose you could, particularly in a small venue or doing a singer-songwriter type of thing. It is however unbelievably small and light and very inexpensive so it is ideal for practice, and grab&go jams, maybe even small gigs. The 112 would probably make you happier if you gig regularly but costs a bit more and is heavier and larger, although not egregiously so. You get a bigger speaker with more bottom end and maybe more capacity to get over a loud drummer.  As other have stated though even the 108 has 2,000 watts peak. Either one can get loud. I would make the selection based on cost, what you intend to use it for, weight and size considerations, and which one sounds better to you.

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Personally, I'm perfectly happy with an Alto TS310 (which seem to be pretty similar to the Headrush offerings). Gives me a very nice balance between portability and decently full sound. Holds up pretty well with rather loud drummers, too.

And yes, I'm gigging regularly with it, covering a rather broad musical bandwidth. I usually place it like a typical monitor because on most gigs (pretty much all) I play there's a PA.

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Is the Alto comparable to the Headrush? I've read that the Headrush is more tuning to guitar EQ, whereas the Alto has a preamp for vocals. 

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Just now, ledvedder5150 said:

Is the Alto comparable to the Headrush? I've read that the Headrush is more tuning to guitar EQ, whereas the Alto has a preamp for vocals. 

 

There have been suspicions that both the used speakers/tweeters are 1:1 identical (they're both made by Alto and the specs read the same, too), the only difference being that with the Alto, the volume knob around halfway in activates the mic preamp section (I don't think anything is kicking in, it's just a broader input level tolerance).

Fwiw, there's a pretty huge difference between the previous Alto models and these (TS210 vs. TS310). I A/B-ed them and the newer models comes through a lot more balanced and doesn't get boomy as quick, either.

I also compared it directly with both a Yamaha DBR10 and a DXR10. Both of these would likely do a better job for "normal" monitoring duties, as they have some decent monitoring-tailored DSP settings, but apart from that, personally I even slightly prefered the Alto - and I don't need any extra monitor settings as I can do the same with the Helix' global EQ (which is only routed to my monitor out), should I ever need to. So I just saved a few bucks.

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I use the Alto TS 308 for dialing in tones at home and as a monitor or speaker/amp during rehearsal and the occasional gig. Works good enough for me and has plenty of headroom. As was suggested in this thread, if you use the speaker as a monitor you can get some bass coupling, which you may find gives you that "boomy" sound. But, put it on a monitor or speaker stand and it works great. Indeed the vertical position is preferred as it gives you a slightly better idea of the sound. When used as a monitor the sound you hear seems to be a bit more dependent on your position as a player.

 

As far as the difference between the Alto and the HR, there is a Youtube video where someone compares the two. In all honesty I could not hear a major difference between the two (if at all). Might be my ears though ..... 

 

Now, the 12" version may (I have never tried....) move a bit more air compared to the 8" which may give you a more amp feeling when playing. I don't think however that sonically there will be a major difference. In that respect I owned a Behringer KXD 12 for some time and that speaker really looked like an amp and actually also gave a bit that "amp in the room" feeling. 

 

In the end, portability made me buy the Alto. It is easy to handle, very light and seems very well built.

 

Just try them all out and see what fits you best ...

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I think either would be fine...the 112 sounds ok....I have a 112 and a tube amp with a 1X12 cab...at home I always prefer to run the two in stereo...there is something about a real valve amp that makes it more inspiring personally.... it has nothing to do with whether the FRFR is bad (I think it is quite good)...it is just a matter of personal preference...I'm on the fence in terms of ditching the Headrush and getting a relatively inexpensive 112 cabinet (used) coupled with an EHX magnum power amp...could end up at almost the same price as a 112...108 would definitely be cheaper...in the end it really depends on what you find inspiring...good luck...

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4 minutes ago, fenderbenderlax said:

I think either would be fine...the 112 sounds ok....I have a 112 and a tube amp with a 1X12 cab...at home I always prefer to run the two in stereo...there is something about a real valve amp that makes it more inspiring personally.... it has nothing to do with whether the FRFR is bad (I think it is quite good)...it is just a matter of personal preference...I'm on the fence in terms of ditching the Headrush and getting a relatively inexpensive 112 cabinet (used) coupled with an EHX magnum power amp...could end up at almost the same price as a 112...108 would definitely be cheaper...in the end it really depends on what you find inspiring...good luck...

 

When I bought my tube amp - a 112 combo - I also bought an EHX 44 Magnum, as a backup. Lately I've been considering the same thing as you, switching out the FRFR112 (which I like for bass) for a 112 cab and the EHX. Great minds......If you do it, do report back, as will I.

 

Hmmmm....I haven't been to GC in a while.....NO! Don't spend more money! But it's for the music......AWAY DEMON SPENDTHRIFT! Cursed logic! You spoil all my fun!

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17 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

When I bought my tube amp - a 112 combo - I also bought an EHX 44 Magnum, as a backup. Lately I've been considering the same thing as you, switching out the FRFR112 (which I like for bass) for a 112 cab and the EHX. Great minds......If you do it, do report back, as will I.

 

Hmmmm....I haven't been to GC in a while.....NO! Don't spend more money! But it's for the music......AWAY DEMON SPENDTHRIFT! Cursed logic! You spoil all my fun!

 

I will...talking about spending money...personally I like Sweetwater better than GC...check em out...typically good discounts as well and great customer service...

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I've considered a power amp into a guitar cab. I have my tube amps and cabs that I can use any time. I was specifically asking for opinions on FRFR choices. 

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Fwiw, for me, being able to finally use fullrange amplification all throughout (in the past I only did so in case someone kinda pointed a gun to my head, such as theatre directors demanding "No sound on stage!") posssibly is the biggest godsend in my guitar playing life. I had pretty great analog rigs and most of it is sold already with the rest to follow. Zero regrets so far and I will never ever go back.

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20 minutes ago, fenderbenderlax said:

 

I will...talking about spending money...personally I like Sweetwater better than GC...check em out...typically good discounts as well and great customer service...

 

Have bought lots from SW, but they're not a mile away.

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The 8" powered speakers are lighter and take up less space.  

 

I've read a lot about these speakers online from people who seem to be downsizing to the latest 8" powered speakers.

 

There seem to be a lot of satisfied players, guitarist and keyboardist, who are using them for stage monitoring?

 

Someone said if you're using them as stage monitors then the FOH speakers will provide some bass compensation on stage?

 

Some folks are happy using them as a small main PA with stands and a subwoofer?

 

Any thoughts?

 

IEMs (KZ AS10s) are my priority, but I may need to provide or rent a PA at some point.  The Headrush FRFR-108 has an appealing price tag.

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Another option to consider is the Tech 21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe. It's a little more expensive than the 112, and it's rated at 200 W (not 2000) but it is plenty loud with a lot of bottom end (it's a deep ported closed back cab).  It's also, IMHO, the best of both worlds...it's a FRFR powered speaker, but looks and sounds much like a traditional guitar amp.  The tweeter can be turned off, which gives you more of the "amp in the room" sound and feel. I've been very happy with it so far.  Haven't gigged with it yet, but it cuts through a full band at rehearsals and sounds great.  I actually bought two of them so that I can run stereo (or dual mono) if I want.

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