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veka062

How to create this behind sound?

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It's probably really difficult to give a very specific response for that kind of sound, but generally, take a look at the particle verb (stable condition) in the legacy category for reverbs. In addition, try combining it, either serially or on a parallel path or even both, with other reverbs that are not in the legacy category. Might find a combination that appeals to you better than what's in the video.

 

Goes with saying, that's a nice guitar in the video.

 

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You could as well try the Plateaux or Octo (legacy section) verbs - but you won't have any success to even get close when playing chords. The polyphonic pitch shifting qualities of the Helix simply aren't even close to the Axe FX ballpark.

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12 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

You could as well try the Plateaux or Octo (legacy section) verbs - but you won't have any success to even get close when playing chords. The polyphonic pitch shifting qualities of the Helix simply aren't even close to the Axe FX ballpark.

 

It doesn't sound like anything polyphonic even going on in that clip to me... It just sounds like an octave shimmer with some other delay pitch stuff happening. This effect sounds very much like the Particle Verb to me, perhaps with a reverse delay component. The Axe FX doesn't really do polyphonic pitch shifting all that well, either.

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13 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

It doesn't sound like anything polyphonic even going on in that clip to me...

 

Maybe I didn't chose the proper words. What I meant was that there was some polyphonic input (aka chords). The Axe FX does a rather nice job on pitching those whereas the Helix simply doesn't. You can check that with each and every block that includes larger pitch shiftings. Chords simply aren't pitched very well.

And well, in my world this is usually referred to as polyphonic pitch shift, whereas the shifter creating multiple voices on its own would be called harmonic pitch shifting - at least that's how I distinguish between the two. Fwiw, harmonic shifts work quite ok with monophonic inputs in case you're playing is exact. But polyphonic input shifting simply isn't what the Helix can do well.

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4 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Maybe I didn't chose the proper words. What I meant was that there was some polyphonic input (aka chords). The Axe FX does a rather nice job on pitching those whereas the Helix simply doesn't. You can check that with each and every block that includes larger pitch shiftings. Chords simply aren't pitched very well.

And well, in my world this is usually referred to as polyphonic pitch shift, whereas the shifter creating multiple voices on its own would be called harmonic pitch shifting - at least that's how I distinguish between the two. Fwiw, harmonic shifts work quite ok with monophonic inputs in case you're playing is exact. But polyphonic input shifting simply isn't what the Helix can do well.

 

I don't think there's any true polyphonic shifting happening here, though. This is just like a reverb/delay effect. The Helix shimmer reverbs handle chords just fine (at least when the pitches are set to octaves). I just think the Helix should be able to come pretty darn close to this particular effect.

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4 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

I don't think there's any true polyphonic shifting happening here, though. This is just like a reverb/delay effect. The Helix shimmer reverbs handle chords just fine (at least when the pitches are set to octaves). I just think the Helix should be able to come pretty darn close to this particular effect.

 

Well, I just tried (and many times before). No cigar. I'd happily stay corrected, though.

And well, if you play a chord and that chord is pitched up an octiave, this is called polyphonic pitch shifting. As opposed to, say, a typical octaver, which is in fact only able to deal with monophonic inputs.

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4 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Well, I just tried (and many times before). No cigar. I'd happily stay corrected, though.

And well, if you play a chord and that chord is pitched up an octiave, this is called polyphonic pitch shifting. As opposed to, say, a typical octaver, which is in fact only able to deal with monophonic inputs.

 

Typically, when I think of polyphonic shifting, I think of the dry signal being shifted. That's not what's happening here. This is just a reverb with some pitch shifting happening to the wet signal, not unlike the Octo, Particle, or other shimmer verbs. This is a little bit like the TimeLine's Ice delay setting, but not as detailed to my ear. The Axe FX Ultra didn't do polyphonic pitch shifting.

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Anyway, to get back to the original post, I would try some different shimmer verbs with the on a parallel path with the Mix set to 100 and then try perhaps a reverse delay afterwards to get some of the motion that this has. There's a lot of different thing you could try.

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7 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

Typically, when I think of polyphonic shifting, I think of the dry signal being shifted. That's not what's happening here. This is just a reverb with some pitch shifting happening to the wet signal,.

 

You can take any bet that the dry signal is shifted before it runs into the reverb. Shifting a reverb usually results in complety audio wreckage, even with HQ algorithms. Really, all these shimmer verbs (or whatever they're called) are nothing but the combination of a pitch shifter and a reverb in one unit. Try it for yourself, place a +12 pitch shifter on a parallel path and slap a 100% wet reverb behind. There's your shimmer verb (or octo verb, or whatever you may call it).

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11 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

You can take any bet that the dry signal is shifted before it runs into the reverb. Shifting a reverb usually results in complety audio wreckage, even with HQ algorithms. Really, all these shimmer verbs (or whatever they're called) are nothing but the combination of a pitch shifter and a reverb in one unit. Try it for yourself, place a +12 pitch shifter on a parallel path and slap a 100% wet reverb behind. There's your shimmer verb (or octo verb, or whatever you may call it).

 

Well, the Helix shimmer verbs at octave settings sound fine with chords. At other intervals, you can get artifacts.

 

I have actually tried shifting the wet signal from the reverbs before (putting the pitch shift block after the reverb block). It sounds fine to me. That's how I created the reverb from this track, actually. I put the looper block after the amp/cab block but before the reverb effects here so I could maintain continuity in the wet signal while the loop wrapped around. I turn the pitch shifting on at some point... Somewhere around half way through.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

Well, the Helix shimmer verbs at octave settings sound fine with chords.

 

We should possibly just agree to disagree. IMO they don't hold a candle against the quality of Strymon and the likes. It's working ok-ishly on some stuff, but I don't think it's ready for prime time.

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Just now, SaschaFranck said:

 

We should possibly just agree to disagree. IMO they don't hold a candle against the quality of Strymon and the likes. It's working ok-ishly on some stuff, but I don't think it's ready for prime time.

 

I guess... For the record, I own the BigSky as well. I don't think the biggest difference between the Line 6 and Strymon reverbs is the pitch shifting. It's hard to explain completely, but to me there's a certain airy quality to the Strymon reverbs that makes them sound different from other things.

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I do as well think that the reverbs could have some more "depth" (in lack of a better description), but for live I'm perfectly fine with them and for recordings there's more than enough alternatives in my arsenal.

Guess I would welcome some great polyphonic pitch shifting in the Helix, don't know how likely that is to happen, though. Also, I'd rather have it the experimental way, such as in the EHX HOG2 or POG, which I think are incredible devices.

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