Bedroom/Home player considering switching to Helix

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, colek98 said:

Wow - someone confused Spider V for Helix? I'd like to see that one. Digging deeper into the spider using the pc app, I have noticed quite a bit more potential than I had originally thought. Thx for the comments. Very interesting.

 

There's lots of this vs that videos on YT, just search for "Your-favorite-amp vs".

Here's a couple of examples that I thought were interesting and fun.

 

Vox vs Helix vs SpiderV vs Kemper

 

They split on the Kemper, one picked Kemper, the other picked Vox.

They thought the Helix was either the Vox or the Kemper.

They thought the Vox was the SpiderV

They thought the SpiderV was the Helix

 

On the Princeton comparison :

 

 

They thought the Kemper was either the SpiderV or Helix

They thought the SpiderV was the Princeton

They thought the Princeton was either the Helix or the SpiderV

They thought the Helix was the Kemper

 

Now, these guys don't claim to be anything other than what they are, guitar players having fun on YT, and these videos are certainly not any kind of definitive.

They are, however, comparatively well recorded, and food for thought.

 

My takeaway from these and other modeler shootouts I've seen is that a 1x12, be it FRFR or Powercab or whatever, is never gonna sound like a 4x12.

Any of the current modelers can be dialed in to sound good, if not authentic.

Some of the most expensive guitar-specific "FRFR" boxes sound like poop.

For AITR, nothing beats an Amp In The Room.

 

YMMV. Try before you buy. Caveat Emptor.

 

[bobcoss]

1 hour ago, Laroosey said:

Any advice on buying a Helix unit used? Avoid it? Do it if the price is right? Any issues I will run into trying to register a used unit?

 

I bought my Helix Floor from Guitar Center.  I  had no problems with it and it even came loaded with the previous owners stash of Impulse Responses.   I think I paid $1200 + shipping around 1.5 years ago.  They come and go all the time.   Same is true with other variants of Helix and Line 6 gear.

 

If you get the Helix floor, LT, or Stomp, you can use a PreAmp model of your choice and run the output into the effects return of your Blackstar.  It's going to be fun and sound great.   You can always use Headphone too if I want to compare the other Full Amp models, IRs out and compare it to what you have from the Blackstar.

 

Enjoy.

[bobcoss]

In addition to the Helix Floor I have, I also have a Line6 DT25, HX Effects, and Spider V 240HC.    I have fun with all of them.   I think the Spider V 240hc sounds great for bedroom volume play and it gets really loud when I want it too.   I wouldn't hesitate to recommend buying just a Spider V Amp for playing at home.    It's certainly a lot more convenient for me when I want to play or practice to walk over to the amp and plug in, and play.

 

I love them all.   Maybe I'll get a Stomp as a backup.  Ha!

[colek98]

3 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

He only wants to plug in, adjust a few knobs and play because that's all he feels he needs...and he's right.  He would hate having to consider what type of stage monitoring system he'd need to connect to, or the various setups for managing his stage system and his interface to the mixing board.  Even worse would be trying to understand how and where to apply different effects in his signal chain or what kind of amp models, cabinet/IR, mic combinations and placements to setup in a patch to get the sound he's after.
 

Thanks for that nicely articulated insight. It's interesting to know there is a guitarist using a spider live successfully. Many users have said the Spider gets the job done and some say that the key to it is getting past the presets and really sculpting you own sound. And although I am more of a tweaker than your Rhythm guitarist sounds to be, I also have my limits to how many hours I will study a device with ten thousand options when I actually only need a few dozen tones. 

[colek98]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

There's lots of this vs that videos on YT, just search for "Your-favorite-amp vs".

Here's a couple of examples that I thought were interesting and fun.

 

Vox vs Helix vs SpiderV vs Kemper

 

They split on the Kemper, one picked Kemper, the other picked Vox.

They thought the Helix was either the Vox or the Kemper.

They thought the Vox was the SpiderV

They thought the SpiderV was the Helix

 

On the Princeton comparison :

 

 

They thought the Kemper was either the SpiderV or Helix

They thought the SpiderV was the Princeton

They thought the Princeton was either the Helix or the SpiderV

They thought the Helix was the Kemper

 

Now, these guys don't claim to be anything other than what they are, guitar players having fun on YT, and these videos are certainly not any kind of definitive.

They are, however, comparatively well recorded, and food for thought.

 

My takeaway from these and other modeler shootouts I've seen is that a 1x12, be it FRFR or Powercab or whatever, is never gonna sound like a 4x12.

Any of the current modelers can be dialed in to sound good, if not authentic.

Some of the most expensive guitar-specific "FRFR" boxes sound like poop.

For AITR, nothing beats an Amp In The Room.

 

YMMV. Try before you buy. Caveat Emptor.

 

That was an awesome synopsis. Getting the bottom line in a 1 minute read helps a lot. Which FRFRs IYO sound like poop? :D

 

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, colek98 said:

That was an awesome synopsis. Getting the bottom line in a 1 minute read helps a lot. Which FRFRs IYO sound like poop? :D

 

 

Pretty much all of them. But then, I'm not into the VOX sound, or overdriven NMV amps into 10" speakers, or Telecasters.

 

I used those videos as examples to illustrate the point that even guys who really like a particular type of sound can't tell the difference between a $3000 state-of-the-art profiling rig and a last gen $300 modeling amp, even on their favorite sounds.

 

On the other end of the spectrum, you can pull up most any Anderton's video and see those guys pull great sounds out of anything from a $50 AIAB pedal to a KPA, playing $5000 LPs and $150 Squiers, and in blindfold tests, not being able to tell the difference! If the point of the comparison is to say which sounds best to who, they'll often disagree, and frequently surprise themselves when they think the cheap solution sounds as good, or better than the most expensive. Much to Lee's consternation, knowing he'll have to explain to the sales reps why Rob or Pete or Rabea thought (body language and facial expressions) or even SAID that their best-selling top-dollar product sounded like lollipop, in front of a million You Tubers! 

 

Proving what?

That a PRO can make most anything sound good, and....

Two PROs in the same genre of music can walk out of the same store with different gear that sounds great, BECAUSE......

In the end, GREAT TONE is entirely subjective, AND......

We're blessed to live in a Golden Age of great, affordable gear!

 

AND... we ALL could benefit greatly by spending more time playing and less time obsessing over which NOS tubes sound best in our 50 year old tube amps!

[Laroosey]

38 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

AND... we ALL could benefit greatly by spending more time playing

Guilty. Gear obsession has eaten a lot of my playing time. Like right now for instance. 

[gsking1]

I’d go with the Stomp.  It’s very capable, and for home use I don’t think it’s too limiting. It’s super small and fits on a desk nicely. You’ve probably already got some effects pedals you can use with it so it’s not too limited. It’s also less expensive so if you don’t like it easier to move on.   It would work well with amps as an efx only unit too. My biggest gripe is that it is almost too small and can be a little hard to edit on the unit as your fingers always bump something. My 2 cents.  

Also use good headphones and or good FRFR.  I have a KSC Q10 which i’m happy with.  Do some research and spend a little more on something good. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by gsking1
added a few lines

[DunedinDragon]

7 hours ago, colek98 said:

That was an awesome synopsis. Getting the bottom line in a 1 minute read helps a lot. Which FRFRs IYO sound like poop? :D

 

 

Pretty much all of the newer powered speakers sound decent.  Where you run into problems are on the older generation of powered speakers that don't use DSP for contouring their sound but rely on bass, mid, and treble controls.  Those all tend to have  a certain amount of dropoff in the mid-range where the hard crossover point is at between the speaker and the horn.  Any and all wedges are most likely going to be pretty bad unless you're dealing with professional high end stage speakers like those used in concert venues.

[colek98]

16 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

Pretty much all of them. But then, I'm not into the VOX sound, or overdriven NMV amps into 10" speakers, or Telecasters.

 

I used those videos as examples to illustrate the point that even guys who really like a particular type of sound can't tell the difference between a $3000 state-of-the-art profiling rig and a last gen $300 modeling amp, even on their favorite sounds.

 

On the other end of the spectrum, you can pull up most any Anderton's video and see those guys pull great sounds out of anything from a $50 AIAB pedal to a KPA, playing $5000 LPs and $150 Squiers, and in blindfold tests, not being able to tell the difference! If the point of the comparison is to say which sounds best to who, they'll often disagree, and frequently surprise themselves when they think the cheap solution sounds as good, or better than the most expensive. Much to Lee's consternation, knowing he'll have to explain to the sales reps why Rob or Pete or Rabea thought (body language and facial expressions) or even SAID that their best-selling top-dollar product sounded like lollipop, in front of a million You Tubers! 

 

Proving what?

That a PRO can make most anything sound good, and....

Two PROs in the same genre of music can walk out of the same store with different gear that sounds great, BECAUSE......

In the end, GREAT TONE is entirely subjective, AND......

We're blessed to live in a Golden Age of great, affordable gear!

 

AND... we ALL could benefit greatly by spending more time playing and less time obsessing over which NOS tubes sound best in our 50 year old tube amps!

You should run for president! You got my vote. Great tone for the masses. :D Music is a great refuge of democracy. 

 

I'm not sure I if I like this guy or not but this rant is awesome. Thought you all might enjoy. Caution, adult content.

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, colek98 said:

I'm not sure I if I like this guy or not but this rant is awesome. Thought you all might enjoy. Caution, adult content.

 

One of his better rants. He's the personification of a most unfortunate cultural trend - lots of people like the angry rant thing, are impressed by copious use of the f-word, and will watch those kind of videos even when they are neither funny nor relevant. His t-shirt says it all. And in this case, he's absolutely correct in his premise. I must be an outlier, because I wouldn't watch either of his example videos, and most of his angry rants just make me want to punch him in the face until he shuts up. Which, of course, demonstrates his premise. He's controversial, therefore gets lots of views, and even though I don't like him, once again I got sucked into watching one of his videos. Which made me laugh.

 

Thanks a lot?

[HonestOpinion]

6 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

One of his better rants. He's the personification of a most unfortunate cultural trend - lots of people like the angry rant thing, are impressed by copious use of the f-word, and will watch those kind of videos even when they are neither funny nor relevant. His t-shirt says it all. And in this case, he's absolutely correct in his premise. I must be an outlier, because I wouldn't watch either of his example videos, and most of his angry rants just make me want to punch him in the face until he shuts up. Which, of course, demonstrates his premise. He's controversial, therefore gets lots of views, and even though I don't like him, once again I got sucked into watching one of his videos. Which made me laugh.

 

Thanks a lot?

 

To me this video just sums up a couple of well known premises. The first as any Madison Ave. advertising exec can tell you is that "sex sells". The second is that with the advent of MTV and music videos and then the internet, the music biz was converted from a partially visual medium to a substantially visual medium. Even back in the day though the better or more outrageous looking your band was, the more energetic or controversial your show, the better your chance of making it. The difference was a good song on the radio would still sell albums even if fans were disappointed when they saw the band live. That still somewhat applies although not as much. As he pointed out, most people are now getting their music delivered on a television, or now that MTV is essentially a 24/7 reality show, their computer monitor, Youtube, and the internet rather than hearing it on the radio or going to a club where the firsthand sheer energy and charisma of the band might overcome any visual shortcomings.

 

As he points out, without sex/visual appeal your band or you may need to get a bit more creative. Not profound or maybe even fair and not always true but fairly common. Occasionally sheer overwhelming talent does still win out, particularly if well and competently promoted. To some extent this appears to be a well intended effort to encourage talented artists who are not getting their due to consider their presentation. Regarding the somewhat bombastic style of his video, he is simply employing a shall we say "dynamic" presentation to get more views, in some respects proving his own point and exploiting as you say the internet's tendency to gravitate to more extreme modes of expression although I find this video relatively mild compared to some of what is out there.

[mjc009]

On 11/19/2019 at 2:31 PM, Laroosey said:

Any advice on buying a Helix unit used? Avoid it? Do it if the price is right? Any issues I will run into trying to register a used unit?

 

I got my LT as a B-Stock from Sweetwater, which was just a touch more than what they were going for used. Maybe keep an eye out for one of those.

 

Honestly, best decision I've ever made. I spend the majority of play time running thru some older Bose passive headphones. When I go out, a small FRFR speaker gets the job done with room to spare. Now, if I were playing in a band that gigged fairly often. I'd probably opt for the Line 6 Powercab or go with 2 decent FRFR cabs.

 

[DunedinDragon]

3 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

To me this video just sums up a couple of well known premises. The first as any Madison Ave. advertising exec can tell you is that "sex sells". The second is that with the advent of MTV and music videos and then the internet, the music biz was converted from a partially visual medium to a substantially visual medium. Even back in the day though the better or more outrageous looking your band was, the more energetic or controversial your show, the better your chance of making it. The difference was a good song on the radio would still sell albums even if fans were disappointed when they saw the band live. That still somewhat applies although not as much. As he pointed out, most people are now getting their music delivered on a television, or now that MTV is essentially a 24/7 reality show, their monitor, Youtube, and the internet rather than hearing it on the radio or going to a club where the firsthand sheer energy and charisma of the band might overcome any visual shortcomings.

 

As he points out, without sex/visual appeal your band or you may need to get a bit more creative. Not profound or maybe even fair and not always true but fairly common. Occasionally sheer overwhelming talent does still win out, particularly if well and competently promoted. To some extent this appears to be a well intended effort to encourage talented artists who are not getting their due to consider their presentation. Regarding the somewhat bombastic style of his video, he is simply employing a shall we say "dynamic" presentation to get more views, in some respects proving his own point and exploiting as you say the internet's tendency to gravitate to more extreme modes of expression although I find this video relatively mild compared to some of what is out there.

 

In short, are you saying we now live in the age of flash over substance???  THAT I can heartily agree with!!!!

[rd2rk]

14 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

In short, are you saying we now live in the age of flash over substance???  THAT I can heartily agree with!!!!

 

I think it may have started with Abstract Art in the mid 19th century.

 

[HonestOpinion]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

I think it may have started with Abstract Art in the mid 19th century.

 

 

Or maybe the 20th century with Pop art, Andy Warhol and the Factory :-)

[SaschaFranck]

Fwiw, I think the HX Stomp would be absolutely sufficient. In case I wasn't mainly a live player, I possibly would've gotten it myself, too.

Ok, it obviously depends on what you're trying to do. If you want huge, dual amp patches with massive FX, then the Stomp will be underpowered. But in case you just want some solid guitar tones, it would pretty much check all boxes. When you listen to certain "typical" or even "iconic" guitar sounds, there's not much the Stomp wouldn't be able to do - apart from some things that the larger units wouldn't be able to do, either.

It might even have a few advances. I mean, both the LT and Floor are large and heavy units, whereas the Stomp fits in a gigbag, so you can move it around in your house with ease and take it with you on travels, etc. I'm sure I'll buy a Stomp in addition one day, just for those reasons.

 

When it comes to monitoring, as you plan to use it in bedroom scenarios, I would not advise to get a single, powerful FRFR monitor, as nice as these might be. Most of them can't exactly display their (undoubted) strengths at livingroom levels, IMO it'd be a waste of money - money that you should probably better invest into a pair of neat, small-ish monitor speakers. Which would also be suitable to listen to music to (in stereo, something a single monitor wouldn't supply). You might want to have a look at IK Multimedias iLoud monitors. They have a pretty good track record, are pretty small and IMO sound incredibly great for monitors of that size. In addition they come with Bluetooth, so you could easily route your smartphone audio into it as well. They're very decently priced, too - and it should be pretty easy to find a suitable space for them as their main intention is to serve as desktop, nearfield monitors. And believe me, they're far away from being toys.

I would recommend getting a decent pair of headphones, too. In case you're on a budget, Superlux makes some very decent, affordable models (just got me some in addition to the other pairs I already own).

[colek98]

On 11/20/2019 at 12:18 PM, rd2rk said:

 

One of his better rants. He's the personification of a most unfortunate cultural trend - lots of people like the angry rant thing, are impressed by copious use of the f-word, and will watch those kind of videos even when they are neither funny nor relevant. His t-shirt says it all. And in this case, he's absolutely correct in his premise. I must be an outlier, because I wouldn't watch either of his example videos, and most of his angry rants just make me want to punch him in the face until he shuts up. Which, of course, demonstrates his premise. He's controversial, therefore gets lots of views, and even though I don't like him, once again I got sucked into watching one of his videos. Which made me laugh.

 

Thanks a lot?

I'm not much on big dissing either, but his point about music is not a meritocracy was so true as the Jess Greenberg  vs blind japanese guy example starkly illustrated. Brutal facts, brutal world. What can ya do?! 

[colek98]

On 11/20/2019 at 6:55 PM, HonestOpinion said:

 

Or maybe the 20th century with Pop art, Andy Warhol and the Factory :-)

Actually I think started w the cavemen. One was painting cave art on the wall an everyone was oooin and ahhin then a cute little cave girl showed up shook her nice round little cave muffins and everyone forgot about the paintings.

[Laroosey]

For anyone who comes upon this thread in the same predicament I was in, here’s a little update. Ended up going with the Helix LT just before this past Christmas, so have been rolling with it for a few months. The stomp probably would have been fine, but the extra blocks and more options on the customtone page made it worth it. Paired it with a headrush 108 and that has been great so far to my ears. It’s also been great with just headphones for practicing at night, and bought an adapter to plug my iPad into the USB to play lessons and jam tracks overtop. 
 

This thing has been worth every penny already, and I have only scratched the surface of its functions. So many amps and pedals allow for experimentation and also learning how effect loops and signal chains work. The customtone presets are awesome too. A lot of people who are more experienced than me have already made the tones you’re looking for. I just moved to a place for work with insane cost of living and had to downsize to an apartment. This thing is an apartment players dream. Only negative is sometimes you end up experimenting so much with all the effects and different peoples patches, you lose practice time lol, so be aware of going down that rabbit hole. 
 

Again, this is coming from someone relatively new to guitar gear and who is a home noodler with no gigging aspirations. I just play for my own sanity and enjoyment, so you can take my opinion with that in mind. 
 

Thanks for everyone’s advice on this thread 

 

 

[Cragronald85]

This thread has been so useful as I'm in this exact predicament if being naive to the world of modelling effects and amps. Which headphones did you end up getting? I'm thinking that the helix stomp might be for ne as I did think the helix lt may be overkill and just lead to paralysis in playing

[Laroosey]

I have a pair of inexpensive audio technica headphones. I want to say the mx20’s. They are like 50 bucks. Obviously there are going to be better options, but these sound great for my uses of practicing/noodling not actual studio stuff. I do suggest getting studio headphones. I tried using my regular consumer style Sony’s. Which are really nice headphones for listening to music movies, but it sounded weird out of the helix, and I think someone mentioned this before adds too much bass. 

[rd2rk]

Best starter kit - 

POD GO

AKG K240 or if absolute no sound leakage is required (noodling on the couch while the wife reads a book), a closed back equivalent.

If you catch a sale or have a GC/MF discount coupon, you can get both for <>$500.

[Laroosey]

Yeah the POD Go came out a couple months after I bought the helix. Would have definitely considered it if it would have been out before. 

[bypassvalve]

On 11/18/2019 at 9:22 AM, Laroosey said:

Is the Stomp too limiting with 6 blocks?

 

not at all, you can either run 1 amp and a full pedal board of stuff, 3+ blocks in front for wah dirt phaser whatever, 2 blocks post for reverb/delays.... or you can also run 2 amps and 2 cabs at once, plus a few select effects at the same time. They've got it set up pretty thoughtfully where if you do lay down 2 amps and you go to see what you can still add, there is a lot greyed out but there is always at least one or two of what you're looking for to do the job. The great thing about it is that for a little box the size of a VHS tape, it contains every single thing that's in the helix, and the same modeling and sound, you just get to pick and choose what to run at one time. The form factor is so tiny and the UI is so thoughtful that it's like greased lightning to audition things and swap stuff around, it's so much fun. I've had it for two weeks and I'm still laughing out loud everytime i plug it back in, it sounds and feels ridiculous, and i've got it running off a myvolts 9v ripcord USB power cable. The cleanest power you can get, because it's coming out of a battery 

[tmingle]

I recently eliminated my Scarlett 6i6 & started using the Helix as my main interface.  I have Kali LP-6 monitors, a DSL40C & a Headrush FRFR-108.  YMMV but, I cannot recommend the Headrush speaker.  It just seems harsh & abrasive.  I split the signal & send the amp with no IR to the 40c & add an IR to the other path.  I also mic the amp(USB 8) & record the dry guitar signal(USB 7).  The flexibility is insane.  If your not going to gig, I recommend saving for the Helix rack unit.