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AnEscapeKey

I need help ... Many questions!!

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Hi!

 

Sorry about the length of this post... :-/


I bought an HX Stomp a couple weeks ago, and I've been playing around with it, and think it shows great possibilities. I have a midi-controlled board with a few analog pedals that I could discard with a Stomp that I have programmed the right way. However, I'm having a hard time to figure out how to have it do what I need. It may not entirely be possible. If not, you could suggest other possible avenues.

 

So... I do not currently have any FRFR cab. I have done a couple of band practices, with the stomp only for a PREAMP block. My signal chain would be :

 

Tuner --> WHAMMY DT --> Mobius --> Drive pedals --> compressor --> clean boost -->  into the STOMP (for the PREAMP) --> Out of the stomp --> Delay --> Reverb --> Power amp IN of my fender amp. 

 

When I do it this way, it works. It is simple, so it's obviously working! haha. And, I know I could have used an FX loop kind of cabling method, but I am afraid of running out of blocks on the stomp. And just before you ask, I want to keep my delay and reverb pedals separate, again to save blocks on the Stomp. They are also great pedals and they can be controlled via midi (which I do with the SA Soleman midi-controller). 

 

So, what I WANT to do is...

 

I want to be able to practice at home with my headphones. When I have a preset with only a PREAMP block (and not a amp+cab, IR or just a cab block), it sounds thin, because of the poweramp section missing). So, for this problem, what are my alternatives? If I buy a poweramp pedal like the EHX Magnum 44, would have solve my problem? Probably not, as I am plugging in the headphones jack of the stomp.... But, if I use it after my reverb pedal, and connect it through some kind of simple mixer and then connect my headphones through that? Would that work?

 

Also, my other question is... Let's say that I do this signal path:

 

351263661_ScreenShot2019-11-18at12_04_32PM.thumb.png.7f31473189c5b6d29329b24afc5164c6.png

 

where the Main L/R goes to my amp's poweramp in for the amp on-stage sound, and the SEND L/R to the FOH console. Keep in mind that I put my delay and reverb pedals between the preamp and the poweramp, like in a typical FX loop fashion. But if I want to be able to do it with this way, what kind of loop/wiring would I have to have to be able to send my reverb and delay tones to both the amp and the FOH? 

And, when connecting headphones, when having a signal path like this one, which one will I hear? The one that ends with the Main L/R o the Send L/R?

 

Thanks so much, and please forgive my ignorance. I am new to this whole digital thing, but I am very close to what I want to do.

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Some thoughts...

 

When you use an AMP Block, you're getting the modeled interaction between the PREAMP and the POWERAMP of that model, as well as the sound of that pre/power amp combination. When you use only the PREAMP, there is NO interaction between the PREAMP and whatever external poweramp you use. If, for instance, you use a Fender Amp model through a real world Fender amp, you may or may not like the sound, but you have the interaction. If you use the PREAMP only, it may or may not sound better, but you lose the interaction. That interaction may or may not matter to you. May or may not are not weasel words, they mean that only YOUR ears can decide.

 

When you use a SS amp like the EHX you mentioned (I have one), it's a more or less uncolored sound. It sounds AWFUL with Preamp only, much better with a full amp model which, as mentioned, adds the interaction factor. The choice of whether or not to use a Cab or IR will depend on the speaker(s) in your real world cabinet. Like the way they sound? If not, there's no set in stone rule that says you can't use a cab or IR. It is, after all, just a form of EQ when you get right down to it. You may like the sound. Or, you could just put an EQ after the amp block.

 

Your headphones always carry the Main L/R signal. The EHX is NOT a headphone solution unless you add a loadbox, which is pointless for your needs. Just use the full amp, amp+cab or amp plus IR. You may need to duplicate a preamp only preset with a full amp/amp+cab/IR for headphone only use.

 

To get your external pedals to both the onstage amp and FOH in the pictured configuration you'll need to put them before the Stomp, or in a stomp FX loop, which requires a block.

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12 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Some thoughts...

 

When you use an AMP Block, you're getting the modeled interaction between the PREAMP and the POWERAMP of that model, as well as the sound of that pre/power amp combination. When you use only the PREAMP, there is NO interaction between the PREAMP and whatever external poweramp you use. If, for instance, you use a Fender Amp model through a real world Fender amp, you may or may not like the sound, but you have the interaction. If you use the PREAMP only, it may or may not sound better, but you lose the interaction. That interaction may or may not matter to you. May or may not are not weasel words, they mean that only YOUR ears can decide.

 

When you use a SS amp like the EHX you mentioned (I have one), it's a more or less uncolored sound. It sounds AWFUL with Preamp only, much better with a full amp model which, as mentioned, adds the interaction factor. The choice of whether or not to use a Cab or IR will depend on the speaker(s) in your real world cabinet. Like the way they sound? If not, there's no set in stone rule that says you can't use a cab or IR. It is, after all, just a form of EQ when you get right down to it. You may like the sound. Or, you could just put an EQ after the amp block.

 

Your headphones always carry the Main L/R signal. The EHX is NOT a headphone solution unless you add a loadbox, which is pointless for your needs. Just use the full amp, amp+cab or amp plus IR. You may need to duplicate a preamp only preset with a full amp/amp+cab/IR for headphone only use.

 

To get your external pedals to both the onstage amp and FOH in the pictured configuration you'll need to put them before the Stomp, or in a stomp FX loop, which requires a block.

 

But using an AMP block (that combiens preamp + poweramp) going into my actual fender amp's poweramp in jack, doesn't that mean it'll have two poweramp stages? I thought that using the preamp of the stomp with the poweramp of my tube amp was the way to go for this kind of situation? 

 

And if I wanted to use the Reverb and Delay in one of the loops, how would you wire it up and which loop do I have to take? The FX loop one? This has been very very confusing....

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4 minutes ago, AnEscapeKey said:

But using an AMP block (that combiens preamp + poweramp) going into my actual fender amp's poweramp in jack, doesn't that mean it'll have two poweramp stages? I thought that using the preamp of the stomp with the poweramp of my tube amp was the way to go for this kind of situation? 

 

Like I said, try it both ways. It's virtual. Not real. It can't blow up! The preamp poweramp interaction I speak of has a lot to do with how it FEELS to play the amp model.

Can you FEEL IT?

Does it sound good?

Nobody can give you definitive answers on this stuff. You're going to have to try it for yourself.

 

5 minutes ago, AnEscapeKey said:

And if I wanted to use the Reverb and Delay in one of the loops, how would you wire it up and which loop do I have to take? The FX loop one? This has been very very confusing....

 

FX loop Block. FX Send. Reverb/delay Input. Reverb/delay output. FX Return (LEFT MONO for mono or both for stereo).

 

RTM.

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Thanks. I just tried the amp+cab with the FX loop block right after it, and it sounded really good. But again, I might have to sacrifice 3 blocks to do the foh/amp dual output combination thing. I'll have to think about it...! Thanks for the help though!

 

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This is just my take on it, but in my opinion, when practicing through a Stomp on headphones, it was better to create headphones presets that closely, but not identically, matched the 

22 hours ago, AnEscapeKey said:

 

And if I wanted to use the Reverb and Delay in one of the loops, how would you wire it up and which loop do I have to take? The FX loop one? This has been very very confusing....

 

22 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Just use the full amp, amp+cab or amp plus IR. You may need to duplicate a preamp only preset with a full amp/amp+cab/IR for headphone only use.

 

 

Just to weigh in, I found it was way more useful with the Stomp to separate performance/live presets from headphone practicing presets. I would try to make my headphone presets mimic the more complex live one as close as possible so that the practicing was useful for the real performance, but it was just easier and more enjoyable to keep them separate as rd2rk suggested. 

 

In that case, I'd personally switch to the amp/cab block (you preserve a block - granted if you are an IR fan you have to split them out) and then use an FX block to stick your delay and reverb pedals in. In fact, you can even split up the loops and put one on path A and one on path B which can sound pretty glorious at times and is worth playing around with. 

 

 

 

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