Helix Sounds Different home in my Studio Monitors and when i'm playing though a PA

[Mattsson7]

Hi! Im having trouble that all my tones sound really good at home in my studio monitors (yamaha HS8) but as soon as i plug it in to a PA at school all my tones sounds harsh! Somebody who knows why?

[cruisinon2]

You're problem is two-fold:

1) You're changing speakers... and speakers are half your tone, if not more. Anytime you change what you're monitoring through you can expect the tone to change... sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, depending on how different the speakers in question are.

 

2) Volume. Tones that you dial in at comfy bedroom volume will sound drastically different at stage volume... even when using the exact same speakers. The perceived loudness of different frequency ranges changes dramatically with volume. At lower levels mid-range frequencies are prominent, and at higher volumes both the lows and highs will be perceived as louder, and the mids drop out. It's called the Fletcher-Munson curve, and it's just how our brains operate... there's nothing you can do about it.

 

The only solution is to EQ your patches at or very close to the volume at which you intend to use them, preferably through the same speakers, or at least through ones that are as similar as possible. A pair of small near-field studio monitors are quite different than a full stage PA system designed to throw sound around a large room at high volume...toggling back and forth between the two, with a big volume difference thrown in, is a recipe for disaster.

[DunedinDragon]

As cruisinon2 says, they are very different speakers designed to do very different things.  That being said, many people are able to adjust and accommodate the differences.

First understand that studio monitors are designed to provide an accurate representation in the fairly intimate environment of a room using walls and bass reflex designs to help fill in the sound.  They also are designed in such a way that there is an optimal position for the listener to be positioned between the speakers, and being off-axis from that position will have an effect on the sound you hear.  Live powered speakers are designed to provide a consistent sound across a very large space regardless of where any audience member is positioned.

I have both a live powered speaker (Yamaha DXR12) that I use for dialing in my patches and studio speakers (Yamaha HS7) for working with my DAW.  Over time I've come to understand the differences such that a preset I dial in with my DXR12 will sound reasonably decent on my HS7.  It's not the same sound on each, but it will work well for each.  The thing is, a live speaker will always sound more harsh than a studio monitor, especially up close.  If you try and dial in a tone similar to what you would shoot for in a studio monitor you'll find that tone will likely get lost in the mix with other instruments in the band, and it will certainly be swallowed up in a recording using studio monitors.  The fact is the very first frequencies to drop out in a large environment are the higher frequencies as they don't project as far as lower frequencies.  If you were to stand close to any PA speaker you'd probably think it was too harsh, until you back away far enough so that the highs blend in with the rest of the sound.  But if you stand back from the speaker a few feet and/or are off-axis from the speaker, and/or have your back turned to it, it will sound great.  What happens when you try and cut too much of the highs you lose articulation and clarity in a live environment.

When I dial in my tones at home using my DXR12 I play it at normal performance levels and I check my tone from different areas of the room and standing off axis in order to get a good feel for what it will REALLY sound like in a live performance.  I would even go so far as to say many people might consider my highs to be a little harsh if they were in the room where I dial in my tones, but that's not a very big room and it has wood floors and a wood ceiling.  But when I get the patch with the band the sound is perfect and mixes very well (with an eight person band).  I'm also able to take that same patch, often with no modifications, directly into my DAW and it works quite well in the recording and is very easy to mix and not lose any of it's texture.  Quite frankly the two things we hear people complain about is their patches sound too harsh through a powered PA speaker so the cut the HECK out of the highs, and then they complain their guitar gets lost in the live mix.  Maybe they're related???

The reality I've come to understand is that Fletcher-Munson is only ONE of the factors to take into account, but the difference in design of the speakers is just as much a factor so you have to account for both if you want to get something that works well in both situations.  It's very important when you listen to your tones through the PA that you listen from where the audience will be listening and with the rest of the band to get an accurate representation of what the guitar sounds like in the mix.

[SaschaFranck]

Try the global EQ.

Yes, it's the best idea to tweak your patches at gig volumes and it's an even better idea to tweak them on a system as close as the PA/monitoring system you'll be using. But we all know that quite often that just isn't possible. That's the very moment to become good friends with the global EQ.

Personally, I usually only use it for my own monitor and leave it to the FOH folks to adjust the sound properly for their needs, but in case that's not a viable solution, it's time to take matters into your own hands.

The easiest way IMO would be to only use a broad (low Q factor) mid band and raise it. Mine sits there waiting to be used at something between 300 (or 305 as the Helix doesn't allow dialing in 300) and 700, usually I go for a rather low center frequency. In case that's not enough, add a high cut to taste, it's very easy to adjust.

 

That's precisely what global EQs are for, so don't shy away from giving it a try.

[codamedia]

I use studio monitors similar to the HS8's to craft my tones at home.... live is always through a Monitor and FOH and the tones translate very well. I may have to tweak a NEW tone just a little on the stage, but rarely - and never much. 

 

Here's what I suggest....

• It is always best to start with setting those HS-8's are set FLAT! "0 room Correction" and "0 High Trim". Ignore this IF you have taken time to fine tune your room and know what you are doing. If you just set those settings to "sound good" it is most likely inaccurate. 
• Create your tones at 80db or higher. This reduces/eliminates Fletcher-Munson. FWIW I create mine closer to 90db.

I would trust the HS8's... those are very nice monitors and they can move a lot of air (volume). What I don't know is the quality of the PA at the school. Good is good, junk is junk.... then their is everything in between :)