peolold Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Hey guys :) I recently noticed that I´ve got different volume levels of the D.I. signal going through USB channel 5 straight into my DAW. My guitar goes mono straight into the input of the HX Stomp. The device is connected to my PC in order to function as the interface. While recording I´m trying to track the main signal as well as the D.I. signal simultaneously for potential re-amping later. According to the users manual USB input 5 and 6 pick up the D.I-signal right behind the input jack so I can´t figure out why there is a volume difference of ~20dB between different patches when the same guitar is connected straight into the HX with the same cable. Is there any global or local setting in the HX Stomp affecting the volume on USB channel 5/6? You´ll find two different patches the problem occurs in attached to this post. I´m happy about any help I can get :) Best regards, Leopold RecRedFeathMain.hlx Synth Blink.hlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I'm not at a place where I can look at the presets you attached, but if you are using an FX Loop block in those presets, that can affect what is being sent to USB 5/6. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 The USB 5 signal is unprocessed, and at UNITY gain - the Output is = to the Input. The Processed signal is NOT at Unity gain - the Output is > the Input. Do this. Load a New Preset. Record the New Preset from USB 1 (processed), and from USB 5 (UN-processed). The signals should be equal (approx -18db hard bar chord strumming). I just tried this, so if it doesn't work that way for you, there's something else going on. The reason that the DI signal is at Unity is to allow headroom for re-amping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, rd2rk said: The USB 5 signal is unprocessed, and at UNITY gain - the Output is = to the Input. The Processed signal is NOT at Unity gain - the Output is > the Input. Do this. Load a New Preset. Record the New Preset from USB 1 (processed), and from USB 5 (UN-processed). The signals should be equal (approx -18db hard bar chord strumming). I just tried this, so if it doesn't work that way for you, there's something else going on. The reason that the DI signal is at Unity is to allow headroom for re-amping. I interpreted his post as saying the level from USB5 is changing based on the preset he's using... Which, if that's the case, is a little weird, but it looks like the Stomp sums the signal from the returns along with the 1/4" in for the dry signal if there's an effects loop block in use in the preset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 34 minutes ago, phil_m said: I interpreted his post as saying the level from USB5 is changing based on the preset he's using... Which, if that's the case, is a little weird, but it looks like the Stomp sums the signal from the returns along with the 1/4" in for the dry signal if there's an effects loop block in use in the preset. OP left much room for interpretation. There's no loops involved. I tried both presets. The recording from USB 5 is louder on the RedFeather preset than on the SynthBlink preset. The only real difference I could find in the presets was that the Output Block Level on Synth Blink was +2.1. When I set the Output Block Level to 0.0, it made no difference in the recording, which is as it should be. I took two of my own presets, with different output levels (simple volume, not Output Block, both of those at 0.0). There was no difference in the recorded USB 5 levels. Conclusion: I have no clue what's going on with those presets. Using Reaper FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier, but this is probably the result of the Input Z setting. Even if it's set to Auto in both presets, if one of the presets has a block with a lower input impedance associated with it as the first block in the preset, that could be setting the Input Z at a lower impedance. That could be enough to cause a difference in level. The variable impedance stuff is in the analog realm, prior to the converters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 OP starts the signal chain with an Industrial Fuzz (1M?) in parallel with a Pitch Shifter, using a split crossover at 650. There's all sorts of level shenanigans going on. I pulled the Pitch Shifter up to Path A before the Industrial Fuzz, eliminating the split crossover and that solved the problem. So, something about the way the split crossover/parallel effects levels are set up is where the problem lies. What, exactly, I dunno, not going there! EDIT: AND this only woked with the Pitch Shifter BEFORE the Industrial Fuzz and BOTH enabled. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, rd2rk said: OP starts the signal chain with an Industrial Fuzz (1M?) in parallel with a Pitch Shifter, using a split crossover at 650. There's all sorts of level shenanigans going on. I pulled the Pitch Shifter up to Path A before the Industrial Fuzz, eliminating the split crossover and that solved the problem. So, something about the way the split crossover/parallel effects levels are set up is where the problem lies. What, exactly, I dunno, not going there! I believe the Industrial Fuzz may lower the input impedance to 10 or 20 kOhm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 According to the attached Excel SS from Tito83 (THE expert on input impedance matters! :-) ), the Industrial Fuzz should be 1M. At any rate, I tried with the Industrial Fuzz bypassed and that alone didn't fix the problem. I THINK (I tried a lot of things) that even with EVERYTHING bypassed it didn't solve the problem. I thought that was REALLY strange! Only solution I found was as I described above. OP may have hit the weirdness lottery on this! Helix Effect Impedance Chart.xlsx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peolold Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 Alright guys - thank you so much for putting your effort into figuring out the problems plus all of the things I forgot to mention in the original post! Took me a while to get behind all the knowledge you dropped in this thread but it seems like it´s really just a bad coincidence. The D.I. volume is actually all good in all of my presets except that SynthBlink one with the mentioned split and the Industrial Fuzz. I started messing around with the gate and the In-Z settings in the input block as I was suspecting this to operate before the signal is send to USB channel 5. I just wasn`t persistant enough and took the easy way by posting a forum thread ^^ I learned a lot from your short discussion and the Excel chart - big thanks for that! :) However, it´s still not a hundred percent clear how to fix this Preset without working a way around the split and the fuzz which does, of course, unwantedly affect the sound. It´s not like super important - there will probably be no need to re-amp that synth/guitar type of sound anyway. But just in case someone is able to reveal the 'magic' behind it - I would be interested :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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