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kraftybob

IR's vs Real Speaker/Cab

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Has anyone compared their physical speaker/cab to the same IR, and if so, how close does it sound?  I know there are differences between amp in the room vs through a P.A., for example, but all things being as equal as possible, do they sound the same - or close to it?

 

I have a G12M-65 Creamback in my amp (DSL40C) and a G12T-75 in a 1x12 closed back cab and am really happy with this speaker combination.  I'm wondering if I got these two IR's from Celestion if my presets would sound about the same whether I was running into the effects return of my amp and mic'ing it, or going direct to FOH using the IR's?

 

I don't have a specific application at this time - really just curious.

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IRs include the sound of the microphone, preamp, etc. So even if you have the exact same speaker IRs, they're not gonna sound like your amp behind you on stage. They might very well sound like your amp mic'd up through the PA, though. 

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Close enough for me... It's a pain in the butt to mic up amps at my house, and the times I've tried it, I decided it just sounds better to use the Helix.

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Over on TGP there are a number of very informative and utterly baffling threads related to this subject.

Particularly entertaining for the masochists in the audience are the AITR vs near field vs far field IR discussions.

BYOD.

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I have once tried to capture an IR of one of my own cabs, an open back 1x12 DIY thing with a G12H100 (around 30 years old, so pretty well worn in). Didn't turn out as bad as I expected but had zero to do with the cab when I placed a Yamaha DBR12 (that I borrowed back when I did the experiment) next to it and played between both of them alternatively. The main reasons probably being:

- Me being a lousy engineer, not exactly knowing what I did back then.

- The cab being open back (hence an acoustic dipole)

- The mic characteristics being captured as well.

 

There's endless discussions about the subject already, so I don't think it's a good idea to repeat all the stuff, but my personal bottomline would be that I never liked typical guitar speakers too much unless it was under ideal conditions (which is pretty close to "never"), so I don't even want an exact replication, AITR or not.

What I have done instead was to start mixing and tweaking my own IRs. For that, I was still placing some cabs and an FRFR next to each other and just started tweaking in my "IR mixing template" project (running Logic). I quickly stopped trying to exactly mimic the cabs (see above, don't exactly love them anyway) but rather concentrated on making my IRs work as good, without any role models in mind, the real cabs only serving as something to give me an idea of a tried and trusted that I could compare things to by their feel. I ended up with a bunch of IRs that I use ever since (in fact, right now it's just two). They seem to work quite nicely both live and as starting points for recordings (I always record without IRs and only monitor through them) and my live sound feels quite great to me while playing. No idea what else I should be asking for.

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Its going to sound pretty much identical. The perspective is a little different, similar to listening to your guitar live or a recording of your guitar, or looking at an apple or a picture of that same apple, but as far as the actual recreation of the sonics, they'll be extremely similar.

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The IR is not just the cabinet & speaker, it is also the MIC, the MIC Placement, and anything in the chain after the mic (pre-amp, eq, filters, etc... etc...). When you listen to a cabinet, you don't hear those extra's unless you record it, or monitor it the same as you monitor a direct rig. 

 

Therefore.... they sound the same... but only when monitored the same....

  • Record your amp using the same mic/placement used for creating the IR
  • Record your amp using the IR instead of the cabinet/mic
  • Those two recordings will sound the same (if the IR was created accurately)

 

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Thanks for the info everyone.  As I mentioned I didn't have a specific application, rather was more curious how this worked out.  I don't have plans to go tone chasing but good to know in any case.

 

Thanks again.

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