Judged by those that "listen with their eyes"?

[codamedia]

Just a word of advice to anyone that plays direct with modelers with great success. 

Your rig always sounds better to a room full of musicians when you place an amp behind you and turn it on so you "look like" you are using it! 

 

Long story short.... at yesterdays weekly gig (filled with a room of musicians) I left my "fake amp" in the trunk due to a Christmas tree stealing the stage space. More than one musician commented that my tone wasn't the same even though I ALWAYS go direct at that gig. 

 

Closed minds drive me crazy! 

[brue58ski]

I've had similar experiences as well.  Enough that I don't consider that those comments have any validity and has convinced me that modeling has reached at the very least, a respectable level. I like what I'm hearing and that's all that matters anyway. The naysayers can say whatever they want. The Helix does and sounds like what I want. If it doesn't to anyone else, my only comment, argument or discussion point is, don't get one. I've given up trying to convince anyone of anything. It's all about the music anyway. No matter how I get there.

[kraftybob]

Cork sniffers will be cork sniffers.  I would have said "joke is on you - the amp that you usually see in the back is never live, yet you liked my tone before."

 

If I get to the point of going straight to FOH then I would not be bringing an amp just to place onstage.  Defeats the purpose of minimizing the load in by going all Helix.

[BBD_123]

Next time, stack up a few washing machines :-)

 

Does wonders for the tonez, that.

 

 

 

[cgar18]

35 minutes ago, BBD_123 said:

Next time, stack up a few washing machines :-)

 

Does wonders for the tonez, that.

 

 

 

He gets a great CLEAN SOUND!!!!!!!!

 

[BBD_123]

You feed 'em the lines...  ;-)

[brue58ski]

53 minutes ago, BBD_123 said:

Next time, stack up a few washing machines :-)

 

Does wonders for the tonez, that.

 

 

 

 

I always loved that he did that. I recall one tour he had a bunch of chicken roasters cooking chickens on stage that I believe, fed the road crew afterwards. 

[BBD_123]

No end to the man's inventiveness...   :-)

 

 

And the beauty of Helix is that it does all that for you... :-0

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, kraftybob said:

I would have said "joke is on you - the amp that you usually see in the back is never live, yet you liked my tone before."

 

Actually... that's pretty much what I told them yesterday. 

 

Truth is... the "fake amp" that often sits behind me is there only if the monitor system is so bad I need to use it for "my own use". The sound it produces never reaches the audience, or even the other members on the stage. It's just a Peavey Bandit with a COAX full range speaker installed.... I run into the power amp input when needed. 

 

So the joke is really on them. Not only do I go direct, but when I do use an amp it's a solid state Peavey (another hint. when using a Peavey, remove the logo so it sounds better as well) 

 

2 hours ago, kraftybob said:

If I get to the point of going straight to FOH then I would not be bringing an amp just to place onstage.  

 

I never take an amp to my regular bands gigs... I trust those monitors. It's just a few smaller fill in gigs I do where I carry the amp... just in case. 

 

1 hour ago, brue58ski said:

I always loved that he did that. I recall one tour he had a bunch of chicken roasters cooking chickens on stage that I believe, fed the road crew afterwards. 

 

Yes... on the chicken roaster tour it was the late night snacks for the crew. 

On the laundry tour it was crew laundry as well as skirting, drop cloths, towels, etc... etc... 

 

Very practical, and wonderfully silly entertainment :) 

[BBD_123]

56 minutes ago, codamedia said:

Yes... on the chicken roaster tour it was the late night snacks for the crew. 

On the laundry tour it was crew laundry as well as skirting, drop cloths, towels, etc... etc... 

 

Off to Ideascale we go :-)

[codamedia]

37 minutes ago, BBD_123 said:

Off to Ideascale we go :-)

 

Good idea... 
A Helix update that can prep me a pound of hot wings for the end of the night :)

[themetallikid]

I for the longest time wanted to get one of those mini half/full stack Marshalls....the ones with like 2 knobs, and they stand maybe 15" tall and run off a battery or two....turn it on, and lay a corded 57 in front of it.  Just so people can see it and ask what I play through, when I pick it up and bring it off stage with one hand it will amaze them I get such great tonal variety out of just a small micro stack and a 57 laying on the floor in front of it. 

[Heavyville]

I try not to let this drive me nuts, whenever I do shows, I show up at the last min and leave right away, to avoid "those people" who just can't keep the cork soaker shut on tone, because of what they saw.     

I usually reply with a "i saw your GF/wife dancing her panties off in front me"...I'd say the tone is working perfectly as intended. 

 

[kraftybob]

20 hours ago, codamedia said:

Actually... that's pretty much what I told them yesterday. 

 

Truth is... the "fake amp" that often sits behind me is there only if the monitor system is so bad I need to use it for "my own use". The sound it produces never reaches the audience, or even the other members on the stage. It's just a Peavey Bandit with a COAX full range speaker installed.... I run into the power amp input when needed. 

 

So the joke is really on them. Not only do I go direct, but when I do use an amp it's a solid state Peavey (another hint. when using a Peavey, remove the logo so it sounds better as well) 

This is great - I love it!  

[gunpointmetal]

I get this often. After we play another guitarist is asking about my gear, telling my my guitar sounded huge, then I tell them its a Line 6 Helix direct to FOH, and then they act like "Oh, it was alright I guess." All these metal dudes with their full stacks are so fragile, lol.

[cruisinon2]

31 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

I get this often. After we play another guitarist is asking about my gear, telling my my guitar sounded huge, then I tell them its a Line 6 Helix direct to FOH, and then they act like "Oh, it was alright I guess." All these metal dudes with their full stacks are so fragile, lol.

 

I used to think it was emotional fragility too... but the older I get, the more I realize that anytime someone's opinion or assessment of your tone flips 180° instantly, based on nothing more than discovering what piece of gear was responsible.... you're not talking to a "fragile" person. You're talking to a simpleton, an a$$hole, or both. ;)

[gunpointmetal]

54 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

 You're talking to a simpleton, an a$$hole, or both. ;)

There's definitely some of that. I also get the feeling of some general disappointment that there wasn't some magic pedal or piece of gear they could just throw in their rig because some people, especially old school metal guitarists, are intimidated by gear with menus, or that hooks up to a computer.  

[vstrattomusic]

Yes, there's lots of idiots and with music everything is subjective so it can be especially frustrating, and a lot of times people just don't know any better, they've always been told modelling will never be as good as a tube amp and that's what they will believe. They will use a lollipop sounding tube amp configuration rather than a modeller with a ton of options just because "it sounds more natural", and you just have to accept it. But then again I'm talking recording at home, not live, but also I'm seeing a lot more people praise modeling and the Helix recently. Like I remember when the Helix was launched, I read many posts saying that it was lollipop and that it had the POD sound or the Line 6 sound, and that it was not that good for high gain. So a couple of years later when I bought the LT I felt like I did a gamble but it turned out to be a very good investment IMO, it's just the reamping thing that pisses me off, as coming from plugins, I didn't have to record every track again if I wanted to change tones.

 

I still don't know about using it live though, I have no problem using SS amps and amp sims, but emulating a speaker or using an IR live, something about that doesn't click with me yet, I'd rather buy a good cab, instrument mics, and my own mixer if needed. Doesn't help that I just can't trust sound techs, a very common complaint from people I know who play in local bands is that the live sound techs do extremely weird things sometimes and the results sounds terrible, I wouldn't want that to happen to my band when playing live.

[gunpointmetal]

26 minutes ago, vstrattomusic said:

Doesn't help that I just can't trust sound techs, a very common complaint from people I know who play in local bands is that the live sound techs do extremely weird things sometimes and the results sounds terrible, I wouldn't want that to happen to my band when playing live.

You playing through a real cab isn't gonna keep a crappy sound tech from making your band sound bad. Crappy engineers are crappy whether they're mic'ing a cab of taking a DI line with the sound of a mic'd cab, and a great guitar sound is usually less than 15% of what most people are listening for in what they consider a "good" live sound. 

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, vstrattomusic said:

I still don't know about using it live though, I have no problem using SS amps and amp sims, but emulating a speaker or using an IR live, something about that doesn't click with me yet, I'd rather buy a good cab, instrument mics, and my own mixer if needed. Doesn't help that I just can't trust sound techs, a very common complaint from people I know who play in local bands is that the live sound techs do extremely weird things sometimes and the results sounds terrible, I wouldn't want that to happen to my band when playing live.

 

I encounter a few crappy techs on the local scene... but I also tour, and if I don't put 100% trust in those guys and work with them I'd be out of work. I love techs.... some of them are great friends and working closely with them has helped me prep my tones so they will work "effortlessly" on any decent FOH system. 

 

IMO... ironically, blasting a guitar tone off the stage into a room with a bad tech most often makes things worse. Sure, you will love your tone on stage, but that doesn't mean it's any good where it matters most - the audience! I'm not saying it can't work (you may have great success with it), I'm just saying I've heard it fail more often than not! 

 

That said... some rooms FOH is VOCAL ONLY, while others carry the entire show. I'm only referring to the latter :) 

[hideout]

That’s been happening to me since I had the Boss GT-5. It wasn’t a stellar modeler by any means but got my sounds out of it and musicians would often remark about how much they liked my tone, only to turn around and find some way to say something negative after they find out I’m not using an amp.  Idiots. 

[litesnsirens]

I have no problem saying “That’s interesting that you say that, I always thought you had a better ear than that”.  One time I got a comment about the electronic drums our drummer uses.  Older seasoned musician friend said “you guys sounded great” then with a bit of a concerned tone said “but there was a bit of a delay to that electronic kick, it was off”. I just said “I was listening to it all night,  I’m not sure what your were hearing, but it was bang on”.  I don’t think it’s any more rude than someone commenting on the tone of the helix or any other modelling type device.  Seriously if I was hearing the same thing, I would concede. I have in the past with other devices.

[cruisinon2]

13 hours ago, litesnsirens said:

I have no problem saying “That’s interesting that you say that, I always thought you had a better ear than that”.  One time I got a comment about the electronic drums our drummer uses.  Older seasoned musician friend said “you guys sounded great” then with a bit of a concerned tone said “but there was a bit of a delay to that electronic kick, it was off”. I just said “I was listening to it all night,  I’m not sure what your were hearing, but it was bang on”.  I don’t think it’s any more rude than someone commenting on the tone of the helix or any other modelling type device.  Seriously if I was hearing the same thing, I would concede. I have in the past with other devices.

 

This really isn't the problem at all. An honest critique is a good thing, and can often be something we can learn from. But the issue here is when someone approaches you to say "That sounded great! What amp are you using?"... and when you tell them "Thanks, but technically there is no amp, I run a modeler direct", they get a sour look on their face and immediately backpedal, effectively retracting the compliment payed just moments before. You were "great" one second, and scoffed at the next. That's the gripe... not somebody giving an honest assessment of what they heard. Whether it's good or bad, honest is honest. But when their opinion turns on a dime, swayed by nothing more than finding out what gear you use, it's not honest... it's comical.

 

And fwiw, yes... it's happened to me several times, and it never fails to amuse, especially when it's a complete stranger. Who behaves like that? Either you liked what you heard, or you didn't...pick one. Now maybe it's me, but as far as I'm concerned anyone who's instantly malleable like that had no idea what they heard in the first place, and they were talking out of their a$$ from the first syllable... they just want to appear like they're "in the know". It's pathetic, and quite frankly, deserving of scorn.

[hideout]

Scorn and thinly disguised ridicule. 

[uptheirons726]

Before I bought my HX Stomp I was using a Zoom Dave Mustain G2.1DM processor. Somehow I managed to get a pretty solid tone out of it. My entire rig was guitar-wah-zoom processor-Laney half stack. People would come up to me after shows and say how great my tone sounded and ask what I was using. I'd show them the Zoom processor and they would literally turn green and get all snobby and what not. Obviously Helix software is miles better, I'm glad I bought my Stomp, but it was fun messing with people who told me they liked my tone only to find out it was a Zoom processor. lol

[litesnsirens]

5 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

This really isn't the problem at all. An honest critique is a good thing, and can often be something we can learn from. But the issue here is when someone approaches you to say "That sounded great! What amp are you using?"... and when you tell them "Thanks, but technically there is no amp, I run a modeler direct", they get a sour look on their face and immediately backpedal, effectively retracting the compliment payed just moments before. You were "great" one second, and scoffed at the next. That's the gripe... not somebody giving an honest assessment of what they heard. Whether it's good or bad, honest is honest. But when their opinion turns on a dime, swayed by nothing more than finding out what gear you use, it's not honest... it's comical.

 

And fwiw, yes... it's happened to me several times, and it never fails to amuse, especially when it's a complete stranger. Who behaves like that? Either you liked what you heard, or you didn't...pick one. Now maybe it's me, but as far as I'm concerned anyone who's instantly malleable like that had no idea what they heard in the first place, and they were talking out of their a$$ from the first syllable... they just want to appear like they're "in the know". It's pathetic, and quite frankly, deserving of scorn.

I agree with you partly, but when there is a biased opinion just because they know you're using a modeler and are just remarking because they have that tone-wood/tube snob attitude, I don't consider it an honest critique. 

[hideout]

One of my favorite responses is, “I bet you couldn’t tell in a blind test.”

[plarkin]

As I get older, I tend to care less and less what people think...especially when it comes to things like which gear I use.  All I care about is 1) it sounds good, 2) it's easy to use and 3) it won't break my back or my bank account.