HX Stomp into FX return-..meh..

[steveb1019]

Plugged my HX stomp into the effects rtn of my Boogie MK IV  (I only use same custom IR as my real cab-(MESA os V30 4 x 12)..(od curse tun off IR when doing this)...Sounds are not even close, really difficult to dial in tightness, dial out mushiness (Hi gain)..Direct (with IR on) it sound GREAT!! , but for live with a band, (IM not doing the FRFR..hate it...) where I need to push some air, it's not happening.. I'm actually getting better sounds into the front (Clean channel, EQflat on amp), but just a little better..whicjh is weird..  Not to knock the brand here (I think all are great), but the Axe FX AX-8 was CRUSHING thru the effects loop, stellar beyond my expectations (Hate the interface on the screen..bad eyes.>) So I got  aKemper Power Head...that had no issues, but $$ was, so I sod and got the HX Stomp) ... Any thoughts on this?Is there some secret trick or button Im not using?  I'm pretty up to speed with being able to adjust all the settings/AMp combos, etc...Spent a lot of time with it..Just trying to get  an inspiring useful tone (Again, no p.a., nor FRFR) as I get dierct with the HX. Maybe my expectaiions are too high? Regardless, I think the HX Stomp is pretty amazing for all that it does..

 

[phil_m]

Are you using the full amp model or the preamp model when going into the Mesa's effects return? The preamp might give you a tighter response.

[codamedia]

The only portion of the Boogie you are not using is the pre-amp....

Therefore, you should be using the "pre-amp" models in the Stomp. The full amp models include power amp simulation as well, but your Boogie is already doing that. 

 

In the end... do whatever you need/want to in order to get a good tone. I'm just suggesting you use the Stomp modeling ONLY to replace what you have effectively removed from your Boogie.

[steveb1019]

3 hours ago, phil_m said:

Are you using the full amp model or the preamp model when going into the Mesa's effects return? The preamp might give you a tighter response.

I tried both...(only on a few..)..I couldn't tell any difference.. I will keep trying all of the different pre-amps.. Thanks!

[steveb1019]

Still not having the greatest of luck...Long story short, the magic that I get from HX stomp direct for recording ...just awesome responsive tight focussed high -gain (Natural and inspiring!!)..I cannot replicate this through a tube amp (via the front or fx  return..) Even tried pre-amp vs full amp, etc... That's ok...I didn't purchase it for this reason (Although now may be a deal breaker)..

[phil_m]

31 minutes ago, steveb1019 said:

Still not having the greatest of luck...Long story short, the magic that I get from HX stomp direct for recording ...just awesome responsive tight focussed high -gain (Natural and inspiring!!)..I cannot replicate this through a tube amp (via the front or fx  return..) Even tried pre-amp vs full amp, etc... That's ok...I didn't purchase it for this reason (Although now may be a deal breaker)..

 

This may be a dumb question, but are you using the Mark IV model here? Have you tried adjusting the sag setting in the model? And rather than A/B-ing against the sound you're hearing from your monitors, it seems to me that you should be A/B-ing against the real preamp and the real cab. By far, the number of people having the opposite issue as you are is way more common (people like the sound of going into an actual power amp and cab but have more trouble with a direct setup). So I guess I'm just finding the whole thing a little puzzling.

[steveb1019]

31 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

This may be a dumb question, but are you using the Mark IV model here? Have you tried adjusting the sag setting in the model? And rather than A/B-ing against the sound you're hearing from your monitors, it seems to me that you should be A/B-ing against the real preamp and the real cab. By far, the number of people having the opposite issue as you are is way more common (people like the sound of going into an actual power amp and cab but have more trouble with a direct setup). So I guess I'm just finding the whole thing a little puzzling.

I'm working my way through different models (there's a lot..) ..  I was just taking my favorite presets (all custom bla bla..Some Choptones, some my own..A few different amps, none being the MKIV..) and taking off the cab sim/IR, and tweak from there.. I'm  now going to start fresh and just AB my real amp and go from there..Thanks for the fresh perspective.. BTW..I would have to say this is unique to that super high-gain tight dropped tone (Think Periphery..Light the Torch..)...All the other tones (which I don't use, but have fun playing thru) are great! (Fender clean.fender pushed, plexi, ..)  I'll report back...

[steveb1019]

Update. OK..So I tried out from scratch..(as opposed tweaking an existing preset that I use for recording).. Actually liked the head vs the preamp  (Cali MK IV Lead) for some reason..Definitely have to use your ears vs your eyes to dial things in... I also had to use a boost in the front (Tina or other..still trying different ones..) to get the "chewi-ness" of the real amp.. I will say that it is getting closer soundwise, CERTAINLY a useable inspiring sound...The "feel" is still up for debate, but that's is subjective...It's got a bit of that solid state feel, but is expected... the tube power section of my Boogie makes up for it...I'm sure it's only going to get better. Thanks Phil_M..  Super impressed.  

[ColonelForbin]

I would say also consider; the size of HX stomp makes it very excellent as an fx only unit in your tube amp fx loop; using your amp "normally" (guitar > pedals > amp front input).

 

It also allows some multi amp routing if you want to mess with stereo and/or wet dry.

 

The noise gate at the input stage placed in the amps fx loop does wonders for cleaning up subtle noises.

 

You can split the paths and send path B out to the HX fx send; to split fx between multiple amps.

 

(Warning: doing this might make you want to buy MORE tube amps and MORE cabs to go with HX tech... I have a Helix and HX stomp; and since have acquired four tube amps, two 4x12 cabs and two 1x12 cabs... I use HX stomp as described in fx loop of amp in way more than 4 cables method. with regular pedals in front. HX splits out to return of main amp via path B to HX fx send; and path A runs stereo reverbs and delays out the main L and R outs to two other tube amp fx loop returns into a stereo 4x12 cab. And I have an AB/Y at the front of the whole rig; as in guitar > ABY> rig + path B to another amp into another 4x12......)

 

I will say; HZ stomp has elicited a level of creativity; in terms of how to make it work with less.

 

Helix gives you a lot of extra controls; with Stomp you have to be economical.

 

I use a little Midi DMC micro to give me preset up/down and use the expression jack on the DMC to control the path A volume. There is an analog volume pedal on my board after the HX stomp fx send; before the main amps fx loop return.

 

Being able to independently control the two primary amp volumes on the fly like that is key. The 'dry' amp runs fairly dirty; so I tend to just toggle it in or out with the AB/Y up front.

 

I run another tiny 2 button trs switch into the HX exp input to control FS4 and FS5.

 

I also have recently come to appreciate the one button looper!

 

 

[belyakov_e]

I have exact same problem as steveb1019 with my HX Stomp. I plug it into FX return of my DT50 combo and it sounds just awful with preamp only model (I use Dual Rectifier model btw). When using full model with preamp/poweramp/cab sim it sounds very nice which doesn't make any sense for me since there's already a tube amp and cab in my combo.

Line 6 Pod HD500 that I used previously had this output setting letting you choose where you will route your signal. Whether it's amp front, amp return or studio direct. With this setting set properly to amp return it sounded amazing into the same amp with preamp only model. But apparently hx stomp doesn't have this kind of setting and it always sounds like pod hd500 in "amp front" mode. Maybe I'm missing some magic item in settings?

[gunpointmetal]

How loud are you guys running your tube amps when you're going into the FX return. If you're not pushing them hard enough to get the output tubes hot, the preamp models aren't going to sound right, like a lot of tube amps when they are run at low output volume. I can't imagine carrying anything over 30# with me anywhere since its all ITB and sounds great, but you do you!