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Switching snapshots making loud noise

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Hey guys,

 

So i've been trying to prepare my HX stomp for gigging use the last week and i'm pretty happy where i'm at tone-wise. I've made a preset with a JC120 for clean, a Soldano for Dirty tones, and an IR for the cab simulation. This coupled with a stomp-able delay,reverb and a Klon in front of the amps can get me 90% of the tones i'm gonna use live, spread throughout 3 snapshots.

 

The problem is whenever i switch from the JC120 to the Soldano (JC120 is snap 1, Soldano is snaps 2+3) i get some milliseconds of loud sound that will absolutely be a problem to send to a PA even for such a short time. Why is that? Hope it can be fixed somehow because this seems like a serious problem. Presets are not an option for my basic rig because of the gap in sound+no spill.

 

(There is no issue going from soldano to JC though)

 

Please give me any tips/workaround on this and tell me if there's any info by line-6 looking to fix this.

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I couldn't duplicate the problem until I tried various ODs before the amps. Using the Deranged Master there was a definite "click". Using the Compulsive drive there was noise, but it was continuous, and varied with Gain and Level settings.

 

Please attach your preset and I'll have a look at it.

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I also attached the IR i'm using (can be downloaded free online). In the preset i'm attaching i actually tried a different approach, having both amps on on split paths and using snapshots to control the route of the signal on the paths. Same problem with having them on the same path and turning on/off... Please give it a listen when you can!

Soldano_JC120 BK.hlx

040-Uber V30 121 C_24bit.wav

 

(BTW, it is most audible going from snap1 to snap3, and reverse, while playing any note)

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I actually found the problem. My Soldano Drive, although not audible, on snap1 had a drive setting of 0,1 for some reason. So the jump to Snap3-that had a drive of 7-caused the pop.

 

Everything working properly ATM, two different amps on split paths, never bypassed. Signal routed through one at a time using the split path though.

 

In case anyone runs into this type of problem try these solutions too!

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After one weekend with my new HX stomp and a very positive experience I thought our relationship was about to end, dialing and tweaking sounds with especially the Badonk preset, which has amazingly good both clean and distorted sound, I thought I had found a perfect setting when I realised about the very loud switching noise between snapshots of clean and distorted aswell. I tried to solve it but could not find any way to do it inside the preset.

 

The solution for me is to use only a great sounding clean amp, and insert the "heavy dist" legacy distortion before the amp and use it for the heavy sounds combined with the amp+cab block, REALLY nice sound and no loud noises when switching between clean/heavy snapshot turning the dist block on/off and tweak everything to taste.

 

It's really sad that all the nice amps ranging from good clean to good heavy distortion(2204 mod, Badonk, archetype lead for some examples) are basically rendered useless due to this snapshot switching noise if you intend to use clean and distorted in the same preset, not that it matters too much now that I found a solution but please line 6 do something about it.

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Maybe you should attach an example preset so we can figure out what's going on.

 

Just to test, I put two Badonk amps in a preset. With SS1 set clean (drive at 1, master at 10, Channel Vol at 10) and SS2 set dirty (drive at 10 master at 10, channel volume at 10).

Set that way, with the amp up LOUD, I could hear a tiny click when changing snapshots, totally inaudible when playing.

Not NEARLY as loud as switching channels with rad settings on my tube amp.

 

Could be something else in the signal chain?

Attach an example preset and I'll have a look.

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Further to my previous post:

 

When I performed the same test using a SINGLE Badonk amp, there was NO click at all.

 

Attached preset has three snapshots, clean, mid gain, full gain:

 

 

Bad Snaps.hlx

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hx stomp test.mp3This is the sound I get from switcing snapshot with one having more drive/less master than the other (except from the delay and verb and so on). I included the preset aswell if you are interested in seeing if I have done something strange.

 

Thanks for the help! Really love the sound from the unit.

 

 

Badonk noise problems.hlx

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6 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Further to my previous post:

 

When I performed the same test using a SINGLE Badonk amp, there was NO click at all.

 

Attached preset has three snapshots, clean, mid gain, full gain:

 

 

Bad Snaps.hlx 4.83 kB · 0 downloads

I can hear the same sound in your preset aswell, just not as loud as in mine, due to me using less gain in the "clean" and more gain in the "dirty" it has a more pronounced effect(and also the compressor pushes it up a little). This is totally gone when using similar distorted sound but from a stompbox instead of the gain structure of the amp, like in this preset

 

I don't have nearly the same loud popping sounds when swapping channels of my 6505

Dist+clean working.hlx

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I'm hearing two distinct sounds. The sound of an amp going from ultra-clean to max distortion, and a barely audible "click" which, when alternating snapshots repeatedly, doesn't always occur.

 

In neither case am I hearing a loud "pop", although I would describe it as "jarring" and, as you said, the compressor makes it more apparent. It may also be that you're just more sensitive to this than I am. I rarely use as much distortion as you're using.

 

If this makes the unit unusable, then your first course of action is obvious.

 

But, if you'd like to bring it to the attention of L6 support, then create two presets. One with JUST the amp and snapshots designed to emphasize the problem, and one with the amp and stomp/distortion to show the difference. Make them simple so as to save support the time I spent messing with the rest of the signal chain looking for other possible problems. Open a support ticket and send them the presets. Try to avoid the angry user stuff, as it's not helpful - "Just the facts, ma'am"  :-)

 

If they get back to you, please post their reply here.

 

 

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13 hours ago, rd2rk said:

I'm hearing two distinct sounds. The sound of an amp going from ultra-clean to max distortion, and a barely audible "click" which, when alternating snapshots repeatedly, doesn't always occur.

 

In neither case am I hearing a loud "pop", although I would describe it as "jarring" and, as you said, the compressor makes it more apparent. It may also be that you're just more sensitive to this than I am. I rarely use as much distortion as you're using.

 

If this makes the unit unusable, then your first course of action is obvious.

 

But, if you'd like to bring it to the attention of L6 support, then create two presets. One with JUST the amp and snapshots designed to emphasize the problem, and one with the amp and stomp/distortion to show the difference. Make them simple so as to save support the time I spent messing with the rest of the signal chain looking for other possible problems. Open a support ticket and send them the presets. Try to avoid the angry user stuff, as it's not helpful - "Just the facts, ma'am"  :-)

 

If they get back to you, please post their reply here.

 

 

Sorry for the messy presets I did send to you, I should have made them much more convenient. I might be wrong about the intended use of these amps, maybe they are not made to work for the fast switching of gain structure to begin with. It made me frustrated as I really like the tone and I thought it might not work in the end due to that. I'm gonna use double set-ups with amp/cab blocks and use the clean on one and dist on one and instead of changing gain structure I'll switch amp/cab block, which sound as it should with the drawback takes up two blocks instead of one.

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8 hours ago, ossianott said:

Sorry for the messy presets I did send to you, I should have made them much more convenient. I might be wrong about the intended use of these amps, maybe they are not made to work for the fast switching of gain structure to begin with. It made me frustrated as I really like the tone and I thought it might not work in the end due to that. I'm gonna use double set-ups with amp/cab blocks and use the clean on one and dist on one and instead of changing gain structure I'll switch amp/cab block, which sound as it should with the drawback takes up two blocks instead of one.

 

IRL, distortion boxes were first used for this. Later, 2 channel amps were developed.. Helix models amp channels separately, so you may be correct in that AMPS, not just the modeled amps in Helix, but high-gain amps IRL, aren't made for fast changes in gain structure without nasty noise. Using 2 amps (or even 3) with the full size Helix products is NBD. Unfortunately, if you're using HXS, dedicating 2 blocks to amps is a big use of DSP.

 

I'd like to get my hands on one of the programmable H&K amps. It's possible to create a preset with those that would go from clean to mean in the analog realm without changing channels. I wonder, would it behave the same way as Helix?

 

Goes on my "when I win the lottery" list.....

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I havent looked at the various patches posted but I have a thought.

Any snapshot change that includes a compressor could cause a pop or othet sound as the gain change hits the compressor and the attach time kicks in.  Even with no playing the hiss/hum from the high gain could be enough to cause this.

Not a fault, just the reality of such chages and the way compressors work.

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1 hour ago, lawrence_Arps said:

I havent looked at the various patches posted but I have a thought.

Any snapshot change that includes a compressor could cause a pop or othet sound as the gain change hits the compressor and the attach time kicks in.  Even with no playing the hiss/hum from the high gain could be enough to cause this.

Not a fault, just the reality of such chages and the way compressors work.

The sound is very apparent even with the compressor taken out of the equation, but sure it adds to the effect (and the effect even without the comp sounds almost like a compressor letting the initial snap through, working hard to push down what's behind it). A sudden change in gain structure is maybe gonna do something similar with an analog amp so it could very well be me who spoke to soon. What I also want to show people in the same situation(like me when I found this thread) is that there is a workaround and it works great.

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2 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

IRL, distortion boxes were first used for this. Later, 2 channel amps were developed.. Helix models amp channels separately, so you may be correct in that AMPS, not just the modeled amps in Helix, but high-gain amps IRL, aren't made for fast changes in gain structure without nasty noise. Using 2 amps (or even 3) with the full size Helix products is NBD. Unfortunately, if you're using HXS, dedicating 2 blocks to amps is a big use of DSP.

 

I'd like to get my hands on one of the programmable H&K amps. It's possible to create a preset with those that would go from clean to mean in the analog realm without changing channels. I wonder, would it behave the same way as Helix?

 

Goes on my "when I win the lottery" list.....

For me working with two blocks of amps is not a big problem, when using my essential 5 blocks including two amps only a few things are greyed out for the last 6th block so it's very well laid out! And I think I won't need a separate IR block as I find the cabs has the possibility for a very good sound.

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