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Serious Helix 2.82 bug (Christmas research)[Updated]

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[Update: It lookes like this bug can be isolated to the Cali Texas Ch 2 amp. It's said that they (Cali Texas Ch 1 and Ch 2) suffer the volume loss when the bass eq on the amp is set to 0.0. In my case the volume problem went away at bass = 0.1. It is said that this was confirmed by Line 6 as a bug at a much earlier stage. So then I question Line 6' management of their own bug-information. Could it be better? Or do they simply keep quiet about known bugs? For the implications, look below. What about having a "sticky" post saying: "Before we are able to fix this or that, be aware of this or that."? It would for sure be a time saver both for the ones having trouble, and for the ones involving themselves. By the way, thanks for the positive responses!]

 

Hi everybody, and Mary Christmas!

 

I've found a serious bug in Helix 2.82 (Helix Floor AND Helix Native). It's a "sneaky" form of volume loss, that gradually silence the patch to zero output. (It happened when updating to version 2.80, but was not corrected in version 2.82.). It happens when a certain patch is tweaked in the "right way". A bug of great concern, I would say.

 

I share the instructions on how to set up the patch with the jpg-files below, so you can experience the bug yourself and be warned. [On request I also added the actual patch-file. Then you can choose how to test it. At first I left it out to dismiss thoughts about a corrupted patch-file. But you still have the jpg-files to build it from scratch if you want to, so it's fine. You have to be logged on to this forum to download the file.]

 

Today I built the patch in Helix Native from the bottom up (I use it within Windows 10 and Cubase 9.5). And what do you think happened? The bug is showing up there as well. Within three hours (it varies) the sound is gone. The earliest onset I've noticed so far is 30 minutes, so I believe it can happen anytime. When it starts, it fades out slowly, so you won't notice it before the sound gets bad. It sounds like turning down the volume on your guitar. Then you have to change the patch and go back again to have the sound back. (In Helix Native I still see the input db-signal, but the output is silent. Go out of the patch and into it again, and the sound/output is back.)

 

More details later in the text. First a few words on the "service" I've got from Line 6 technical support.

 

I've been talking to the Line 6 technical support since early September this year (with one or several anonymous persons). In many of their replies it seems that they don't even read my messages. At a point in time I actually thought I was talking to a computer, because their replies were so strange. But at least they assured me that they were looking into the problem, and they confirmed the loss of volume when using the patch I sent to them. They re-built the patch and reported that the problem was solved. I got the patch that Line 6 technical support had rebuilt, tweaked it to my liking, and the problem was still there (loss of volume and then total silence - within 30 minutes to three hours). I reported this back to Line 6 technical support, and asked them if they would like the jpg-files I share with you now (to set the patch up like I do). They did not want it, and told me that my unit needed to be sent for repair. IT TOOK THEM THREE MONTHS (and lots of e-mails), AND THE CONCLUSION IS BOTH STRANGE AND WRONG! Why did it take them so long? I just ask ;-)

 

What's with the Line 6 technical support? Why would they tell me to service my Helix Floor unit (for probably a few weeks)? I just ask again ;-) So much for the trust I had in this company in the first place. I will stick to my old amp until I see a serious update (with some serious and trustworthy information), and probably testing it on rehearsals for a few weeks after that, and then never update the unit ever again... Or just throw it away if nothing happens. When it happens in this patch, in my understanding, it might happen in any patch (when tweaked the "right" way). Obviously it's not a problem that shows up often, but if or when it does, it's really a bad thing. I wouldn't take the risk.

 

Please set up the patch exactly as on my added jpg-files [if you build it from scratch]. Usually I play with it with Deranged Master engaged, but I do believe the bug shows up non the less. But to be sure, keep the Deranged Master on. (The first eq is used in combination with the Deez One Vintage to shape the tone.) You don't have to play for three hours. Just keep the unit on (with deranged master, amp, cab, second eq, reverb and volume control at 100 % engaged, and place it in Snapshot 2 to be aaaaabsolutely sure :-), and check it once in a while. Then you don't have to think that this is a Christmas joke. Even though I wish you AT LEAST THREE hours of guitar-time during your Christmas holiday!!! :-) If you for some reason don't experience the bug, then hopefully you have a nice patch to use with a Stratocaster-type guitar - especially nice on the neck pickup. But be warned! For me it never goes beyond three hours before the volume loss happens, but who knows. I have the problem BOTH on Helix Floor and Helix Native.

 

Please report back to Line 6 Technical support if you experience the volume loss. If somebody tweaks the patch to investigate if volume loss happens at different settings, it would be interesting to read about it. I did one thing, and that was to change the amp. Then the problem went away. (But probably the bug is due to a combination of things. Maybe an unstable core... Mamma mia! :-)

 

Thank you very much!

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Texas Nachos.hlx

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The preset is not attached. I'd like to see for myself, but no way I have the time to study a bunch of screenshots and build it from scratch.

Please attach the preset.

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34 minutes ago, havkayak said:

I choose to share the patch with you here, 

 

Then please share the preset, not images. 

I will load it up to try it once you actually share it.

 

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13 hours ago, havkayak said:

Good idea, actually. Then one can choose.

Texas Nachos.hlx

 

EDIT TO ADD: I have a question now that I loaded this up. The majority of the effects are off on this preset you shared. Will the preset you shared FAIL in the state that you shared it... or do we have to turn certain effects on to make it fail?

-------------------------

Thanks... I will load this up into Native and check in on it throughout the day. 

 

Pure speculation.... but when I saw this type of thing in Sonar several years ago it was narrowed down to a memory leak in one of the plug ins. I think this problem will turn out to be nothing more than one misbehaved effect.... that when left on for 3 hours at a time rears it's ugly head. Since most of us change presets more often than every 3 hours, we don't encounter that :) 

 

I will say that if it takes 3 hours to show up & returning to the preset solves the problem then I don't understand why you consider it "serious". I consider that type of bug an annoyance at worst. I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be fixed... but it sure would't ruin my day if I encountered it. 

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41 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

EDIT TO ADD: I have a question now that I loaded this up. The majority of the effects are off on this preset you shared. Will the preset you shared FAIL in the state that you shared it... or do we have to turn certain effects on to make it fail?

Yes, it is in this state I experience it, but I do believe it can happen all together. It can also happen after 30 minutes, but not longer than 3 hours. As you say, it is not a big problem (at home or while recording). But if I did not find this bug before a gig, it would be a BIG problem. The gain would gradually fade, and I would have an ugly sounding guitar before I or somebody else noticed. The other concern is in which of my other patches can it happen, and when does it happen. Though not comparable, I would not go for a flight on an airplane with this bug in its flight controls :-) I also easily spend playing the guitar three hours straight, so if my Helix could not handle the "heat" (which it does well in other patches), it would be out of my life allready :-)

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11 minutes ago, havkayak said:

It can also happen after 30 minutes, but not longer than 3 hours.

 

You never said that at first... The devil is in the details... :) 

For the record... I am at 35 - 40 minutes now with no signs of problems. I know that doesn't mean anything, I'm just providing an update. 

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17 minutes ago, havkayak said:

Though not comparable, I would not go for a flight on an airplane with this bug in its flight controls :-)

 

Your right, not comparable. It is completely unreasonable to suggest Line 6 be held to the same standard as Boeing or Air Bus.

I also find it is in poor taste all considering...

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42 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

You never said that at first... The devil is in the details... :) 

For the record... I am at 35 - 40 minutes now with no signs of problems. I know that doesn't mean anything, I'm just providing an update. 

 

37 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

Your right, not comparable. It is completely unreasonable to suggest Line 6 be held to the same standard as Boeing or Air Bus.

I also find it is in poor taste all considering...

 

Yes, as I said, within three hours. Sorry if I put you off with my metaphor. If you suddenly are "flying" in front of the audience (it sometimes happens :-), I can make a huge bet on this: That's when the devil shows up :-) That's why this is a bug that should be fixed in the Helix Core. That's why I will not use the unit on a gig before the bug is fixed. Nice of you to check it out on your equipment! Thanks!

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If it is a memory leak it would seem to me that simply switching to a new preset then back would eliminate the held memory since that re-initializes all of the blocks.

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It's probably not a bug that the vast majority of users would ever experience if it only shows up after having the same preset loaded for three hours... Not saying it isn't a bug, but not sure I'd consider it that serious, all things considered. Just switch to a different preset and back before your show, and you should be good to go.

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2 hours ago, phil_m said:

It's probably not a bug that the vast majority of users would ever experience if it only shows up after having the same preset loaded for three hours... Not saying it isn't a bug, but not sure I'd consider it that serious, all things considered. Just switch to a different preset and back before your show, and you should be good to go.

 

It sometimes happens much sooner than three hours. I would of course not use this patch. But I would not use any patch, since I don't know what causes the problem. What about a similar patch? What if I turn on or off this or that effect? What if I tweak a similar, or just another patch? I think you are right about the frequency of the problem. This will not happen often. But latent problems have a nasty habit of showing up when you least want them - like at a gig. And when the doubt creeps in, it affect performance. I would be listening for drop in gain constantly :-) So for me it will be anolog times for a while, or forever after. We will see :-) A petty though, because the unit is otherwise extremely capable. It suited my needs perfectly.

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2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

If it is a memory leak it would seem to me that simply switching to a new preset then back would eliminate the held memory since that re-initializes all of the blocks.

 

I assume you are talking about the software? Or can a memory leak also be due to hardware failure? In the last case I'm pretty sure this is software failure, because the bug shows up both in Helix Floor and in Helix Native. It would actually be interesting to hear if Helix LT users, and Stomp users (using the engaged blocks - tweaked the same way) had the same problem. Especially Stomp users, because I have a hunch that this is due to the combination of blocks (and/or the way they are tweaked). As I've said, Line 6 gave me a rebuilt patch that they said worked for them. I tweaked it, and the problem showed up again.

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2 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 

I assume you are talking about the software? Or can a memory leak also be due to hardware failure? In the last case I'm pretty sure this is software failure, because the bug shows up both in Helix Floor and in Helix Native. It would actually be interesting to hear if Helix LT users, and Stomp users (using the engaged blocks - tweaked the same way) had the same problem. Especially Stomp users, because I have a hunch that this is due to the combination of blocks (and/or the way they are tweaked). As I've said, Line 6 gave me a rebuilt patch that they said worked for them. I tweaked it, and the problem showed up again.

 

What's the difference between the L6 patch that works and the tweaks you made that broke it? Seems like that would be the place to start looking for the problem.

And yes, your preset did exactly what you said when I imported it into my Helix, somewhere between 1-2 hours, so it's not specifically YOUR hardware.

That said, I have no such problems on any of my custom presets, at least not that I've noticed.

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Been gigging with the Helix since the beginning of 2016 and have never had a hiccup, so i doubt this would be a performance stopper for anyone unless they really wanted to use this specific patch for some reason. If you want to trouble shoot the issue, just start removing one component at a time until it stops happening, 

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1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

What's the difference between the L6 patch that works and the tweaks you made that broke it? Seems like that would be the place to start looking for the problem.

And yes, your preset did exactly what you said when I imported it into my Helix, somewhere between 1-2 hours, so it's not specifically YOUR hardware.

That said, I have no such problems on any of my custom presets, at least not that I've noticed.

 

Thank you for confirming this! I was pretty sure after finding it in Native as well, but this makes me more confident. What platform did you use?

As I said, you are using the Line 6 rebuilt version of my patch. But I tweaked it to my liking. So I've tweaked nearly all the blocks. So it would be hard to tell where it happens. Another difference was that Line 6 was using a "Split Y" to 1B (A and B balance to center), where I use the "Split A/B" with B 100. I guess that might disguise the problem if it has something to do with the 1B path. But I haven't done a "deep research" (and I of course would never be able to do that). I would only be sitting left with assumptions, whatever I do. My main problem is that I don't trust the unit anymore. Latent problems have a tendency to show up at inconvenient moments.

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1 hour ago, havkayak said:

 

Thank you for confirming this! I was pretty sure after finding it in Native as well, but this makes me more confident. What platform did you use?

As I said, you are using the Line 6 rebuilt version of my patch. But I tweaked it to my liking. So I've tweaked nearly all the blocks. So it would be hard to tell where it happens. Another difference was that Line 6 was using a "Split Y" to 1B (A and B balance to center), where I use the "Split A/B" with B 100. I guess that might disguise the problem if it has something to do with the 1B path. But I haven't done a "deep research" (and I of course would never be able to do that). I would only be sitting left with assumptions, whatever I do. My main problem is that I don't trust the unit anymore. Latent problems have a tendency to show up at inconvenient moments.

 

wouldn't the easiest approach be to make a single tweak.....test....pass = additional tweak....pass......repeat until you get the failure.  When you get the failure...repeat the process starting with the 2nd block you tweaked and so on....until you rule out blocks that aren't causing it?

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1 hour ago, havkayak said:

My main problem is that I don't trust the unit anymore. Latent problems have a tendency to show up at inconvenient moments.

 

It should be obvious to you from the replies you've received that this is a problem specific to the way you've configured this preset, and that it is mainly of concern to you. Time to either:

 

Do the troubleshooting required to pin down the specific cause of the problem. This is a complex preset with hundreds of possible parameter interactions. I doubt that anyone is going to have the time/energy to troubleshoot it for you.

 

OR

 

Sell the unit and move on. Many thousands of people use Helix (and Native) everyday to make music. But if you feel that you can't trust it, you won't have any trouble selling it. Let it go!.

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56 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

 

wouldn't the easiest approach be to make a single tweak.....test....pass = additional tweak....pass......repeat until you get the failure.  When you get the failure...repeat the process starting with the 2nd block you tweaked and so on....until you rule out blocks that aren't causing it?

 

Considering that the "TEST" part would take up to 3 hours per tweak, I would consider that a daunting task. Even adding/deleting one BLOCK at a time would take longer than I'd have the patience for. Hope I never have this problem! REALLY glad I'm not the programmer that's going to have to figure it out if it becomes more commonplace!

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UPDATE FROM MY END....

 

At 1.5 hours it was still working. At that point I had to go out and didn't get back for another 5-6 hours. It had dies somewhere in that time. 

I am running another test right now... it is currently at 1.5 hours and still going. I did make a change, but don't want to announce that until my test is complete. 

 

3 hours ago, havkayak said:

I assume you are talking about the software? Or can a memory leak also be due to hardware failure?

 

Memory leaks are SOFTWARE, not hardware. Since this problem occurs on both HARDWARE and NATIVE, that automatically rules out hardware as the issue. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, havkayak said:

Nice of you to check it out on your equipment! Thanks!

 

Another update .....

 

The lower path of Path A was failing regardless of whether any effects in that lower path were on, or what splits were being used. As soon as I moved those effects to a different location, or deleted them (either option eliminated the path) the signal came back to full strength. Even when I simply tried using the split to re-route to the top path it would not bring the track to life... that lower path had to be eliminated. Of course, reloading the preset always brought it to life, but I was trying to avoid that for troubleshooting the dead preset. 

 

In all three tests I did it took more than 3 hours for this to happen. I also checked every resource I could on my system, and memory was NOT an issue, so I don't believe this is a memory leak. CPU usage also remained consistent when the problem occurred so that eliminates resources. 

 

My next test.

I run a mega serial path for my live presets which utilize Path A in a similar way your preset was setup... except mine has even more added. I just loaded that up in Native to see if this problem happens with my preset. It will take several hours before I know. 

 

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It's worthy to report a bug - so thanks for doing that. But I haftoo say this is a very complex patch that not every user is likely to endeavor. 

 

All this tech is the cutting edge. Every tech on the Line 6 help desk can't be intimately familiar w every line of code from every product they've ever supported. I know because I'm a field tech for a HW/SW company with a similar array of products - Help desk techs haven't all been there for 20 years nor do they stay that long. Long story short I think you are expecting too much from them. If they can solve 90% of the most common problems, well, that's pretty damn good.

 

I spoke w the Line 6 (Yamaha) help desk a few times recently and was pleased with the service. Compared to my own company (highly rated multibillion dollar), they kick lollipop.

 

And I recently dabbled w Avid ProTools. I bought and downloaded their SW, it wouldn't install, their help desk was not available, they sent me a message in technobabble that said they might get back to me in two to three business days .... ok, they got fired immediately and I'll go right back to Studio One.

 

Yamaha as a company has always impressed me. Keyboards and motorcycles - now line 6.

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22 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

Do the troubleshooting required to pin down the specific cause of the problem. This is a complex preset with hundreds of possible parameter interactions. I doubt that anyone is going to have the time/energy to troubleshoot it for you.

 

 

No, that would be to much to ask, but I really appreciate your interest. Even though Line 6 say it's not a problem, I truly hope THEY (Line 6) have the knowledge and the resources to fix this bug (because I find it hard to believe that they see no problem in this - even though they say so). But of course, it is allways (in these times) the economists that runs the show. If it is an undetected flaw in the software structure, anything can happen. Now, or during later software updates. But if the economists find that the "crossover" (maximum economic gain) is below a stable platform, I guess we're all stuck with that. One see this happen in most cases when entusiast companies are taken over by "the big ones". 

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34 minutes ago, colek98 said:

 

All this tech is the cutting edge. Every tech on the Line 6 help desk can't be intimately familiar w every line of code from every product they've ever supported.

 

 

If I ever have said anything that make people think that i accuse the service person(s), I'm truly sorry! I know the show: Money! The tech people even confirmed the bug in the beginning. "Economists" deside to bull***t me (and others not worthy to "bribe"), and intructs (hard working and desent people in the service centre) to run a "show" that gives them the best possible image, and the most amount of money to the owners. It's as simple as that :-) Sadly enough, that's the way it goes all over the line.

 

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4 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I ever have said anything that make people think that i accuse the service person(s), I'm truly sorry! I know the show: Money! The tech people even confirmed the bug in the beginning. "Economists" deside to bull***t me (and others not worthy to "bribe"), and intructs (hard working and desent people in the service centre) to run a "show" that gives them the best possible image, and the most amount of money to the owners. It's as simple as that :-) Sadly enough, that's the way it goes all over the line.

 

 

I understand your frustration, and you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. My opinion of the above statement is that it's bull***t from someone who hasn't got a clue and really should just list his Helix on Craigslist and move on. We've tried to help you, as I'm SURE (based on my experience of L6 support) the support techs did. Now you're just being rude.

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5 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

My next test.

I run a mega serial path for my live presets which utilize Path A in a similar way your preset was setup... except mine has even more added. I just loaded that up in Native to see if this problem happens with my preset. It will take several hours before I know. 

 

 

I will not invest more of my time in this, but it will for sure be interesting to read about your findings. Thanks for sharing!

 

 

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48 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 

No, that would be to much to ask, but I really appreciate your interest. Even though Line 6 say it's not a problem, I truly hope THEY (Line 6) have the knowledge and the resources to fix this bug (because I find it hard to believe that they see no problem in this - even though they say so). But of course, it is allways (in these times) the economists that runs the show. If it is an undetected flaw in the software structure, anything can happen. Now, or during later software updates. But if the economists find that the "crossover" (maximum economic gain) is below a stable platform, I guess we're all stuck with that. One see this happen in most cases when entusiast companies are taken over by "the big ones". 

 

I don’t think Line 6 would say any bug is “not a problem”. I think it’s a matter of doing triage-type assessments as to which things are the most important and where they should focus. Sometimes it seems users uncover deep bugs that are hard to replicate, and I think those are always the most frustrating things for development teams. So the best thing to do is simply what you’re doing - try to give the service guys as much information as possible so they can pass it to the developers. Hopefully they’ll be able to get to the bottom of it.

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5 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

I understand your frustration, and you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. My opinion of the above statement is that it's bull***t from someone who hasn't got a clue and really should just list his Helix on Craigslist and move on. We've tried to help you, as I'm SURE (based on my experience of L6 support) the support techs did. Now you're just being rude.

 

I appreciate everything I've got in this forum. To be fooled to communicate with a tech center for three months is a thing to mention. And I know it's not the tech peoples fault. And I'm 100 % sure that the bosses in Yamaha/Line 6 are not offended at all :-) Sorry if I offended you.

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1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

I don’t think Line 6 would say any bug is “not a problem”. I think it’s a matter of doing triage-type assessments as to which things are the most important and where they should focus. Sometimes it seems users uncover deep bugs that are hard to replicate, and I think those are always the most frustrating things for development teams. So the best thing to do is simply what you’re doing - try to give the service guys as much information as possible so they can pass it to the developers. Hopefully they’ll be able to get to the bottom of it.

 

Yes, I agree with you. That's why they shoult treat the users that takes initiativ in a good way. They confirmed the bug in the beginning. That shuld be the end of the story. Thank you - we'll deal with it! Not make it into a three months story where i eventually are adviced to service my unit. And again, that has nothing to do with desent workers. Thats "image" and "strategy" (NOTHING WRONG HERE!). (Not having a stable version by 2.82 - third try - is bad for the image. Much better then to low-pay someone to "help you" to fix the unfixable.) And I truly hope Line 6 fix it, hopefully also their strategies :-). It's an extraordinary piece of gear, made by highly creative and competent people.

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One final update from my tests over the past couple days....

 

My own patch... which is more complex yet built in a similar manner to yours did not fail after 11 hours of operation. 

 

I then built your patch from the images you posted.... I didn't tweak every single setting exact, but I was careful to insert every single block in it's correct place with the correct effect/amp/split, and with the correct orientation (mono, stereo, legacy). Then  made sure all effects were on that were on in the preset you shared. 

 

After 10 hours, that preset is still operation fine! 

 

At this point... I am suspecting a corrupt preset. although It's mild if it is just losing volume in a three hour window rather than freezing the unit like some corrupt presets can do.

 

16 hours ago, havkayak said:

Not having a stable version by 2.82 - third try - is bad for the image.

 

That's not a fair statement. There are thousands of these units on stages and in studios. Just a couple examples... they are on the Vegas Strip with Shania Twain, arena's and concert halls with the Doobie Brothers and in studio sessions from LA to New York including stops in Nashville. Do you really think these players would use it if it wasn't stable? 

 

It's a computer! They way you use it seems to be triggering something unforeseen. There is no question you have found a bug... whether it's in the software itself - or in a method of turning a preset corrupt. However - This is not a widespread problem, and when it happens it is extremely easy to remedy (reload the preset). It's an annoyance, just like Pro Tools is (or any other DAW) when it decides to crap the bed in the middle of a session, just like an amp is when it decides to go "poof" mid song, just like your smart phone is when it decides to drop a call or lose wifi, etc... etc... etc...

 

Complex gear has glitches... IMO, if you can't learn to live with the small ones then maybe complex gear is not for you! 

 

 

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17 hours ago, havkayak said:

I will not invest more of my time in this, but it will for sure be interesting to read about your findings. Thanks for sharing!

 

I had some down hours with my gear... and although I consider this minor, I do think it's a bug. Some day this bug might effect me and others! Therefore I try to lend a hand in helping to isolate the problem. That's how this community works and I am very sorry to hear that you want to give up! 

 

Let me keep trying! 

 

How were your editing your preset that Line 6 sent you? 

  • On the unit
  • In Helix Native
  • Through HX Edit

IME: Whenever I encounter odd behavior with presets/snaps/settings it is when I edit with HX Edit. However, I am well aware that HX Edit is nothing more than an interface for the unit, and it is dependent on a solid USB connection and subject to communications errors. Whenever I do my editing in Native... or on the unit itself - I have never had an issue. 

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5 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

I had some down hours with my gear... and although I consider this minor, I do think it's a bug. Some day this bug might effect me and others! Therefore I try to lend a hand in helping to isolate the problem. That's how this community works and I am very sorry to hear that you want to give up! 

 

Let me keep trying! 

 

How were your editing your preset that Line 6 sent you? 

  • On the unit
  • In Helix Native
  • Through HX Edit

IME: Whenever I encounter odd behavior with presets/snaps/settings it is when I edit with HX Edit. However, I am well aware that HX Edit is nothing more than an interface for the unit, and it is dependent on a solid USB connection and subject to communications errors. Whenever I do my editing in Native... or on the unit itself - I have never had an issue. 

 

If the OP did use HX edit, 'this' could be the culprit.  Inviting something damaging to the preset somewhere inside the 1's and 0's.  I have just recently had an issue where hX edit would not copy/paste something for me, restarted the Helix, tried again...same result using HX Edit....restarted the Helix, did the same action on the Helix itself....worked fine.   Even with fresh installs of HX Edit

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6 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

I had some down hours with my gear... and although I consider this minor, I do think it's a bug. Some day this bug might effect me and others! Therefore I try to lend a hand in helping to isolate the problem. That's how this community works and I am very sorry to hear that you want to give up! 

 

Let me keep trying! 

 

How were your editing your preset that Line 6 sent you? 

  • On the unit
  • In Helix Native
  • Through HX Edit

IME: Whenever I encounter odd behavior with presets/snaps/settings it is when I edit with HX Edit. However, I am well aware that HX Edit is nothing more than an interface for the unit, and it is dependent on a solid USB connection and subject to communications errors. Whenever I do my editing in Native... or on the unit itself - I have never had an issue. 

 

Really a good thing that you look into this. Maybe Line 6 want to look into your findings, and then it will be a good thing.

 

I allways do my main edits on HX Edit. Small tweaks are usually done on Helix Floor itself. The patch in Native was edited there, of course.

 

When I talk about stability, of course I know I'm not an expert. But I base my statement on the reports (many of them) on different odd behaviour on both Helix Floor, Helix LT and Stomp in version 2.82. Yes, if it was a Windows program, then yes, I would agree because of all the different hardware structures. But it is not. Unless I'm corrected on this, it happens on the exact same hardware (if we isolate it to the Helix Floor). If you can't tweak the settings in this program, without having problems, the platform can't be stable. But it is not terrible unstable, because then more musicians would have problems. My guess is that the vast majority have no problems. But my concern is that the same majority can have problems in a given (and unlucky) situation. That's why I will keep it off stage, even when not using this patch.

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On 12/26/2019 at 5:14 PM, havkayak said:

Today I built the patch in Helix Native from the bottom up (I use it within Windows 10 and Cubase 9.5).

 

10 minutes ago, havkayak said:

Yes, if it was a Windows machine, then yes, I would agree because of all the different hardware structures.

 

??????????

 

Sounds like you're confusing hardware and software.

As others have asked, have you tried building the preset from scratch ON THE HELIX ITSELF? 

WITHOUT HXEDIT, thus eliminating the possibility of this being a problem with HXEDIT and/or your computer?

Be a shame to not use an expensive piece of hardware because of a glitch in the SW Editor or the way the editor interacts with your computer, which won't be on stage.....

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1 hour ago, themetallikid said:

 

If the OP did use HX edit, 'this' could be the culprit.  Inviting something damaging to the preset somewhere inside the 1's and 0's.  I have just recently had an issue where hX edit would not copy/paste something for me, restarted the Helix, tried again...same result using HX Edit....restarted the Helix, did the same action on the Helix itself....worked fine.   Even with fresh installs of HX Edit

 

38 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

 

??????????

 

Sounds like you're confusing hardware and software.

As others have asked, have you tried building the preset from scratch ON THE HELIX ITSELF? 

WITHOUT HXEDIT, thus eliminating the possibility of this being a problem with HXEDIT and/or your computer?

 

How nice of you to correct me on the syntax, rd2rk. Though i guess the majority was able to figure out what I meant. It's now corrected :-)

 

The first patch was edited in HX Edit.

 

The second patch was (again) edited from ground up on HX Edit. That was the patch I sent to Line 6. So I guess that Line 6 have the expertice to spot an error in the file structure. I heard nothing about that. They confirmed the volume loss.

 

The third patch was rebuilt by Line 6 (I don't know how) and sent it to me. Line 6 said the problem was gone. I tweaked it (including the different split from 1a to 1b - look abowe) and the volume loss was still there. I told Line 6 about this (still volume loss on Helix Floor), and offered them these jpg-files, but they did not want them. They adviced me instead to service my Helix Floor.

 

The fourth patch was built from ground up in Helix Native, and tweaked to the same settings based on the jpg-files in this post. The problem is still present.

 

And when I say I stop here, I mean that I have offered Line 6 more than enough to look into this. Whatever I find will just give me assumptions. The only persons able to deal with this is the engineers at Line 6. But of course I share what I'm able to with you good fokes here. And I do believe efforts by the community can give them good clues (if they want it).

 

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55 minutes ago, havkayak said:

But my concern is that the same majority can have problems in a given (and unlucky) situation. That's why I will keep it off stage, even when not using this patch.

 

I find that ludicrous... I'm sorry! As I stated earlier... thousands of these machines are used every day on stages and in studio's around the world.... that would not be the case if they were as unstable as you seem to think they are. 

 

YOUR PROBLEM rears it's head over a long period of time.... up to three hours. The solution is to reload the patch that takes 1 second at most. If you can't work around that, then I suspect you will not get along with any piece of computerized gear...

 

6 minutes ago, havkayak said:

The fourth patch was built from ground up in Helix Native, and tweaked to the same settings based on the jpg-files in this post. The problem is still present.

 

Using those presets from scratch it is running 100% in my Helix native without an issue - about 6 hours and counting now. The patch you shared failed after 3 hours consistently.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

I find that ludicrous... I'm sorry! As I stated earlier... thousands of these machines are used every day on stages and in studio's around the world.... that would not be the case if they were as unstable as you seem to think they are. 

 

YOUR PROBLEM rears it's head over a long period of time.... up to three hours. The solution is to reload the patch that takes 1 second at most. If you can't work around that, then I suspect you will not get along with any piece of computerized gear...

 

 

Using those presets from scratch it is running 100% in my Helix native without an issue - about 6 hours and counting now. The patch you shared failed after 3 hours consistently.

 

 

 

By all means. I just share this. It gives me concern. I'm not asking you or anybody else to have concern. I just reported what I found, and how Line 6 chose to meet me on this. Then it is up to each and one of us to make up our minds. But of course, if you meet a problem first hand (like me and others) we will probably carry a greater concern than the ones that didn't. That's just how things are. My experence tells me not to use it on stage untill reports of odd things decline. If they don't I will do an informed sale of the unit. I'm just fine with that. 

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19 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 

By all means. I just share this. It gives me concern. I'm not asking you or anybody else to have concern. I just reported what I found, and how Line 6 chose to meet me on this. Then it is up to each and one of us to make up our minds. But of course, if you meet a problem first hand (like me and others) we will probably carry a greater concern than the ones that didn't. That's just how things are. My experence tells me not to use it on stage untill reports of odd things decline. If they don't I will do an informed sale of the unit. I'm just fine with that. 


The thing is that there are over 50,000 Helix/HX units in the wild currently, and many of those are being used on stages all the time... Some for real-deal world tours in arenas and such. Personally, I wouldn’t let this one bug dictate whether or not it’s worth using it or not, but it’s up to you...

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What you're doing is insisting that there's a problem with Helix, while ignoring what I and others are saying. You have NOT built the preset from the ground up ON THE HELIX ITSELF!

You're using software running on a computer. Take the last step, the one you're avoiding. BUILD THE PRESET ON THE HARDWARE!

If, AFTER building it on the hardware, you still have the problem, THEN you can argue that the platform is defective.

If you're not willing to do that then by all means dump the unit. It's not like we have any investment in your success or failure, but most of us got no problems like you've got, which indicates to us that the problem is not Helix, but MAY be a problem with HX Edit.

 

Try it. It's the only thing you HAVEN'T tried. What have you got to lose?

 

BUT....if you're truly done wasting your valuable time on this defective platform from a heartless uncaring manufacturer, I'll be happy to open the bidding on your POS Helix.

$100! Do I hear $125?

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43 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

[...] which indicates to us that the problem is not Helix, but MAY be a problem with HX Edit.

 

Try it. It's the only thing you HAVEN'T tried. What have you got to lose?

 

BUT....if you're truly done wasting your valuable time on this defective platform from a heartless uncaring manufacturer, I'll be happy to open the bidding on your POS Helix.

$100! Do I hear $125?

 

The reason is my first hand experience, and what I read of other users first hand experience. When Line 6 was not able to do it, when I was not able to do it BOTH in HX Edit and Native, then I'm done. Let's say it worked. I would still know that something was wrong. When will it show up again, and what else can happen? I had NO concerns before it happened, just like you.

 

You imply something that is totally wrong. I've never said these things about Line 6. It's about having two thoughts in the head at the same time. I do believe that Line 6 is full of nice, competent and creative people. The way I was met, I believe, is not about that. For me it's just a sign on how business are run today - that both customers and serious craftsmen (loving their craft) are affected by. Efficiancy, image and gain. The people responsible for this is not the designers or the tech people at Line 6. It is the people in suits. I'm truly sorry if I made you angry.

 

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