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havkayak

Serious Helix 2.82 bug (Christmas research)[Updated]

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I've kind of monitored this from the sidelines and I have to say it's been rather amusing...

From what I can tell, this bug may very well be some sort of memory leak that if left alone over a long period of time (looks like around 3 hours) may eventually break down the integrity of the signal chain in some way, but I still go back to what I first said.  If it is a memory leak, the quick fix for it is to simply unload the preset then load it back as that would rebuild all memory being used by the preset.

But what's absolutely amusing to me is using this bug for the excuse not to use it live.  That's kind of like saying if my turn signal breaks in my car I won't drive it.  Three hours is a very long time in term of stage performance.  Heck, I'm changing presets about every 4 or 5 minutes during a show.  I've had some long shows over the last 50 years of playing, but none that was three hours long with no break or no changes in presets.  Of course if the workaround for the bug is to simply reload the preset, that takes about 2 seconds at best.  I'm pretty sure in three hours one could find time to do such a thing.  In fact, a typical break or intermission in a show is more than enough time to reboot the whole unit multiple times.

All that aside, I'm not sure what the OP is looking for here.  Let's assume Line 6 tells him that yes it's a bug.  Does he think Line 6 will interrupt the development cycle and create a special release for him to put out a fix for it?  If it is recognized as a bug (which it probably has been), it will be added to the items that need to be fixed in the next formal release as it would for any other company in the world.  That's a potentially long time to have a piece of expensive gear sitting around doing nothing.

Quite frankly, I don't know what the OP's real problem is, but I think it's safe to say it certainly isn't this "bug" that's keeping him from playing......

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37 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

I've kind of monitored this from the sidelines and I have to say it's been rather amusing...

From what I can tell, this bug may very well be some sort of memory leak that if left alone over a long period of time (looks like around 3 hours) may eventually break down the integrity of the signal chain in some way, but I still go back to what I first said.  If it is a memory leak, the quick fix for it is to simply unload the preset then load it back as that would rebuild all memory being used by the preset.

But what's absolutely amusing to me is using this bug for the excuse not to use it live.  That's kind of like saying if my turn signal breaks in my car I won't drive it.  Three hours is a very long time in term of stage performance.  Heck, I'm changing presets about every 4 or 5 minutes during a show.  I've had some long shows over the last 50 years of playing, but none that was three hours long with no break or no changes in presets.  Of course if the workaround for the bug is to simply reload the preset, that takes about 2 seconds at best.  I'm pretty sure in three hours one could find time to do such a thing.  In fact, a typical break or intermission in a show is more than enough time to reboot the whole unit multiple times.

All that aside, I'm not sure what the OP is looking for here.  Let's assume Line 6 tells him that yes it's a bug.  Does he think Line 6 will interrupt the development cycle and create a special release for him to put out a fix for it?  If it is recognized as a bug (which it probably has been), it will be added to the items that need to be fixed in the next formal release as it would for any other company in the world.  That's a potentially long time to have a piece of expensive gear sitting around doing nothing.

Quite frankly, I don't know what the OP's real problem is, but I think it's safe to say it certainly isn't this "bug" that's keeping him from playing......

 

Well, I can tell you. No, I allways play on ONE preset. I don't need anymore. What scares me off is that the volume loss is gradual. It takes time before you notice it. And it do sometimes happen after 30 minutes. And since it varies, I would not know when it happens. If it happens after 30 minutes, 3 hours, or anything in between, it can happen after 30 seconds. The rest of your post speaks for itself. It's easy to ridicule someone from behind a keyboard.

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21 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 

Well, I can tell you. No, I allways play on ONE preset. I don't need anymore. What scares me off is that the volume loss is gradual. It takes time before you notice it. And it do sometimes happen after 30 minutes. And since it varies, I would not know when it happens. If it happens after 30 minutes, 3 hours, or anything in between, it can happen after 30 seconds. The rest of your post speaks for itself. It's easy to ridicule someone from behind a keyboard.

Are the songs your playing longer than the minimum time that this issue shows up?  If its shown up as early as 30 minutes, do you play 30+ minute jams (Freebird anyone?)

 

If not, why can't you simply duplicate the preset into a 2nd (or even 3rd) preset (simply copy and paste) and then when your song is done or even during the song when it wont be as audibly noticeable, switch to the duplicate preset.  If it is a form of memory leak like suggested...or some other issue, that would reset whatever timing is causing the breakdown.  

 

I agree this is like not driving your car cause the blinker doesn't work.  Whatever the desired end result is/was of this thread/issue seems to have been lost....as there are multiple ways suggested it seems to work around the issue, until it is acknowledged/solved as a bug.  

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1 hour ago, havkayak said:

The reason is my first hand experience, and what I read of other users first hand experience. When Line 6 was not able to do it, when I was not able to do it BOTH in HX Edit and Native, then I'm done. Let's say it worked. I would still know that something was wrong. When will it show up again, and what else can happen? I had NO concerns before it happened, just like you.

 

You're still ignoring the fact that the Helix Hardware is not necessarily the same as the software. You claim knowledge of other users' first hand experience, yet in this very thread users have reported things that fail in HX Edit, yet work when performed on the device itself. You haven't tried that. "The SW doesn't work right, therefore the HW must be defective". That is not even logical.

 

1 hour ago, havkayak said:

For me it's just a sign on how business are run today - that both customers and serious craftsmen (loving their craft) are affected by. Efficiancy, image and gain. The people responsible for this is not the designers or the tech people at Line 6. It is the people in suits. 

 

"I'm only following orders" hasn't been a valid defense for a long time. In a small, highly competitive market, it would be foolish for Yamaha to behave in the way you imply.

 

I'm not angry. Being angry about someone else's paranoid delusions is a waste of time. I'm trying to help you figure out the problem (HW, SW, or both?) so that you can get the benefit of the fine piece of gear that is the Helix.

 

But if you don't really WANT to know, my opening bid of $100 still stands.....

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3 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

Are the songs your playing longer than the minimum time that this issue shows up?  If its shown up as early as 30 minutes, do you play 30+ minute jams (Freebird anyone?)

 

If not, why can't you simply duplicate the preset into a 2nd (or even 3rd) preset (simply copy and paste) and then when your song is done or even during the song when it wont be as audibly noticeable, switch to the duplicate preset.  If it is a form of memory leak like suggested...or some other issue, that would reset whatever timing is causing the breakdown.  

 

I agree this is like not driving your car cause the blinker doesn't work.  Whatever the desired end result is/was of this thread/issue seems to have been lost....as there are multiple ways suggested it seems to work around the issue, until it is acknowledged/solved as a bug.  

 

Thank you for your reply. No, the longest song is around 6 minutes, give or take, depending on our mood :-) In some projekt-playing it can be longer, but then I'm usually not continously playing. And I would not worry on a jam :-) Yes, I've thought about this as well. But when doubt have crept in, I find it hard to trust. I think the problem can show up still, or in another form. I've decided to use it for practice, untill I get some reassurance that (whatever it is) is gone.

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31 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

You're still ignoring the fact that the Helix Hardware is not necessarily the same as the software. You claim knowledge of other users' first hand experience, yet in this very thread users have reported things that fail in HX Edit,

 

I will clerify. What I meant was that my first hand experience, together with other first hand experieces (other strange bugs), have given ME doubts about using the unit in critical situations.

 

37 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

I'm not angry. Being angry about someone else's paranoid delusions is a waste of time.

 

Ok. I was just trying to reassure myself that everything was fine. Thats good :-)

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30 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 

Thank you for your reply. No, the longest song is around 6 minutes, give or take, depending on our mood :-) In some projekt-playing it can be longer, but then I'm usually not continously playing. And I would not worry on a jam :-) Yes, I've thought about this as well. But when doubt have crept in, I find it hard to trust. I think the problem can show up still, or in another form. I've decided to use it for practice, untill I get some reassurance that (whatever it is) is gone.

no piece of gear is flawless, nor is bug free.  I had the original AXE FX Ultra when it came out and as greatly revered as that piece of gear was when it was released and the years after, it had its flaws as well.  There were limitations that I ran into, a few things that didnt work as 'I' thought they should, but it never wavered my ability to use it, and if it did there were simple work arounds that I had to incorporate.  

 

That seems prevalent in a lot of life scenarios in general.  I get where your coming from...in the subject of product confidence.  However, this seems to be a highly focused scenario, that has had several options offered as solutions/workarounds....including somewhat of an acknowledgement from L6 regarding your experience.  Its a minor (very) inconveninence to have to swap presets 1>2>1 or whatever pattern you would choose and literally done in under a second. 

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35 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

no piece of gear is flawless, nor is bug free.  I had the original AXE FX Ultra when it came out and as greatly revered as that piece of gear was when it was released and the years after, it had its flaws as well.  There were limitations that I ran into, a few things that didnt work as 'I' thought they should, but it never wavered my ability to use it, and if it did there were simple work arounds that I had to incorporate.  

 

That seems prevalent in a lot of life scenarios in general.  I get where your coming from...in the subject of product confidence.  However, this seems to be a highly focused scenario, that has had several options offered as solutions/workarounds....including somewhat of an acknowledgement from L6 regarding your experience.  Its a minor (very) inconveninence to have to swap presets 1>2>1 or whatever pattern you would choose and literally done in under a second. 

 

Yes, you're right. Nothing is bulletproof. Most likely, your workaround would do that I never encountered the problem ever again. I've also made a patch with the Litigator (same structure). Never seen the problem there. But I think (read worry) "yet", because I have no clue what's causing the problem. A valve can also break, of course. I've experienced it once. But non the less, I don't worry about that. For some reason, strange things going on in software makes me more uncomfortable. And I guess it all boils down to who we are - what feels like a risk for me, will not be the same for you.

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41 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 And I guess it all boils down to who we are - what feels like a risk for me, will not be the same for you.

 

Yup. And any one of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow, too. We'd better all stay home...

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2 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

 

Yup. And any one of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow, too. We'd better all stay home...

 

I guess I'll go with my old Budda and take my chance... ;-)

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3 hours ago, havkayak said:

 

Yes, you're right. Nothing is bulletproof. Most likely, your workaround would do that I never encountered the problem ever again. I've also made a patch with the Litigator (same structure). Never seen the problem there. But I think (read worry) "yet", because I have no clue what's causing the problem. A valve can also break, of course. I've experienced it once. But non the less, I don't worry about that. For some reason, strange things going on in software makes me more uncomfortable. And I guess it all boils down to who we are - what feels like a risk for me, will not be the same for you.

I agree with your thought process.  I worry too.  Thankfully I dont get so far away from home that I couldnt run and get my GT100 as a backup within a decent amount of time.  

 

But I get your stance.

 

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18 hours ago, havkayak said:

If it happens after 30 minutes, 3 hours, or anything in between, it can happen after 30 seconds. 

 

I can see what Line 6 support has given up on you! The goal posts have once again moved in this thread.

 

It started with 3 hours, it was altered to "30 minutes - 3 hours" and now it's 30 seconds? I am beginning to find this very unbelievable. Please post the configuration (effects on/off & snapshot settings) that can make this happen in 30 seconds? That would be a lot easier to troubleshoot than the 3 hours manifestation I have ALWAYS seen with your preset. 

 

18 hours ago, havkayak said:

No, I allways play on ONE preset. I don't need anymore.

 

There is an easy solution/workaround to your problem that I KNOW would work 100% based on all the tests/time I have spent with your preset over the past 2-3 days. 

Save your preset into a 2nd location (or more) and seamlessly switch between them every couple of songs. 

 

The problem is... I'm beginning to think you don't want a solution/workaround.

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49 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

I can see what Line 6 support has given up on you! The goal posts have once again moved in this thread.

 

It started with 3 hours, it was altered to "30 minutes - 3 hours" and now it's 30 seconds? I am beginning to find this very unbelievable. Please post the configuration (effects on/off & snapshot settings) that can make this happen in 30 seconds? That would be a lot easier to troubleshoot than the 3 hours manifestation I have ALWAYS seen with your preset. 

 

 

There is an easy solution/workaround to your problem that I KNOW would work 100% based on all the tests/time I have spent with your preset over the past 3 days. 

Save your preset into a 2nd location (or more) and seamlessly switch between them every couple of songs. 

 

The problem is... I'm beginning to think you don't want a solution. 

 

Yes, you are right. I edited the text to clerify. Several people read "within three hours" as "three hours". The text was obviously not clear enough, so then it is a good thing to correct it. It's called intelligent communication. And I'm sure most people in Line 6 are happy with that :-)

 

Yes of course I would like a solution. But only Line 6 can offer me that. My problem is not that the patch is not working. My problem is that I own software that obviously have issues. I can't live with that, because then I know that something MIGHT happen. If other people see it as irrelevant, then I'm perfectly ok with that. I report what I find, and then it is up to others to conclude, just like you have done.

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2 hours ago, havkayak said:

My problem is not that the patch is not working. My problem is that I own software that obviously have issues. I can't live with that, because then I know that something MIGHT happen.

 

Then I guess you don't use your PC or MAC or ANDROID or iPHONE, or "insert computerized device here" either? If you are using any of those then you DO know how to work around things that "might happen" at any given moment :) 

 

If you have lost faith, so be it! When I lose faith in something I sell it off and move on. When I am pleased with the next item - I know it is ONLY because I don't come across a bug that effects me, not because it doesn't have bugs that could occur at any time. 

 

2 hours ago, havkayak said:

Several people read "within three hours" as "three hours".

 

Let's be clear.... your preset ALWAYS takes 3 hours to begin it's deterioration on my machine! It has NEVER taken less time! I think 3 hours is closer to the truth than anything else you are posting! 

 

2 hours ago, havkayak said:

Yes of course I would like a solution. But only Line 6 can offer me that.


Why are you on the user forums if you have no intent of accepting our assistance? Why did you ASK US TO HELP! 

Your agenda is clearly to shame Line 6 support.... I wish you had made that agenda clear from the beginning so I could have ignored this thread, you, and your problem.

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18 minutes ago, codamedia said:

Then I guess you don't use your PC or MAC or ANDROID or iPHONE, or "insert computerized device here" either? If you are using any of those then you do know how to work around things that "might happen" at any given moment :) 

 

I'm not dependent on on my computer or my phone. On stage I am 100 % dependent on whatever I play. The people hiring us or me are, my fellow musicians are, and the audience is. Anyone experiencing a breakdown of equipment during a show, like I have, know what I'm talking about. You avoid it by all means. Then I do not play on a unit I need to "button massage" and pray for. That's why I hope Line 6 puts a huge effort in getting the software stable, to a DEGREE where I (and probably others) can trust it like a standard amp and stomp boxes.

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1 minute ago, havkayak said:

 

I'm not dependent on on my computer or my phone. On stage I am 100 % dependent on whatever I play. The people hiring us or me are, my fellow musicians are, and the audience is. Anyone experiencing a breakdown of equipment during a show, like I have, know what I'm talking about. You avoid it by all means. Then I do not play on a unit I need to "button massage" and pray for. That's why I hope Line 6 puts a huge effort in getting the software stable, to a DEGREE where I (and probably others) can trust it like a standard amp and stomp boxes.

 

I think what others are saying here is that the firmware is pretty much stable to this degree already. Yes, there's always a chance that something will pop up, and I'm sure Line 6 wants to get to the bottom of it. Sometimes there are some pesky bugs that don't want to be caught..

 

Just to be clear, is it only in this one preset where you've experienced this issue, or is in it multiple presets?

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58 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 I'm not dependent on on my computer or my phone. On stage I am 100 % dependent on whatever I play. The people hiring us or me are, my fellow musicians are, and the audience is. Anyone experiencing a breakdown of equipment during a show, like I have, know what I'm talking about. You avoid it by all means. Then I do not play on a unit I need to "button massage" and pray for.  That's why I hope Line 6 puts a huge effort in getting the software stable, to a DEGREE where I (and probably others) can trust it like a standard amp and stomp boxes.

 

There is no shortage of pro's using the Helix in Studio's and Live around this world on any given day! I don't know who you are, but I suspect their gigs are every bit as important as yours. Are you suggesting the likes of John McFee, Cory Churko, Billy Sheehan, Richie Castellano, Steve Howe, (and hundreds of others)... don't care about reliability? I highly doubt that! 

 

Your comment about amps and pedals misses reality. Most guitarists I know carry a spare amp... just in case. I always carried two amps... and nowadays with a modeling setup I carry a spare modeler. Nothing has changed in how I approach things, just the style of gear has changed. 

 

As several people have asked already.... have you built your preset from scratch, on the Helix itself, without being connected to HX Edit? Until you do that, your computer and/or HX Edit could be the fault and the reason Line 6 or others can't reproduce it from scratch. 

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I'm still reading that you're not using the HW because the SW doesn't work right (for you).

You still haven't rebuilt the preset ON THE HW, which would be the best way to prove that it's the SW, NOT the HW, that is at fault, OR, that the entire platform, HW AND SW, that is defective.

 

Do you want to know or not?

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58 minutes ago, havkayak said:

 

I'm not dependent on on my computer or my phone. On stage I am 100 % dependent on whatever I play. The people hiring us or me are, my fellow musicians are, and the audience is. Anyone experiencing a breakdown of equipment during a show, like I have, know what I'm talking about. You avoid it by all means. Then I do not play on a unit I need to "button massage" and pray for. That's why I hope Line 6 puts a huge effort in getting the software stable, to a DEGREE where I (and probably others) can trust it like a standard amp and stomp boxes.

 

Here is my take on reliability.  When I had my AXE FX Ultra, I had a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro as my foot controller, and 2 Ernie Ball Expression/Volume Pedals as I like the extra travel they have and the grippy surface on them. 

 

Have you ever looked inside an Ernie Ball Pedal?  Its literally a piece of string attached to the heel/toe of the pedal that is wound around the potentiometer.  There are known issues with that string getting worn and breaking and everything else.  People still use the pedal for the reasons they like, knowing its an issue they will/might have to deal with.  The tradeoffs are justified in their heads.

 

In my situation, mine didn't break, but the string was not gripping the pot inside as it should and thus not rotating it properly....Imagine my displeasure when I got to the show and figured that out.  At the time I used the Expression pedal to turn on my lead effect/sounds heel down = lead, toe down = rhythm.  I had over 60+ presets designed this way...that now I had no access or control over rhythm/lead changes....granted this was before a big 4th of July summer bash in front of almost 1000 people.  I had no choice but to do my solo's on my rhythm sound and deal with it.  

 

Come the next day I had two choice, buy another pedal and potentially have the same issue, or move on to a different pedal that maybe didn't 'feel' or react the same way I'd prefer.  Ultimately I moved on cause the way I design my presets (at the time) could not allow for that situation again.  

 

In your case, you have 128 presets per setlist available, and 8 setlists (?) that's a lot of extra space to confine yourself into a physical jail of a single preset, and then complain about a very specific 'bug' when there is an easy workaround of copying/pasting that same preset into the slot next to it and every song just clearing the memory or whatever else is being done to prevent it from happening.  

 

The error you have is not a catastrophic error.  It happens gradually, and when it happens you can easily change presets, on rhythm to the song and no one but yourself will know what happened.  And if done correctly, you can make a super Rockstar pose/motion while you do so you look extra cool to the millions (and millions) of people listening to you.  To me a catastrophic error worthy of your worry would be mid jam session/song it starts emitting a 60 cycle hum or some other buzzing that overpowers your guitar signal.....or, the helix just restarting on its own without anything triggering it, or effects being bypassed or turned on randomly when something else is supposed to be happening.....but these are not happening.....

 

you have a minimal/slow volume decay...that can be easily remedied at the first sign of 'trouble' with a little pre-planning (copy/paste) and a simple foot stomp.  

 

I'm trying not to be harsh, but this thread seems to be about 25 responses longer than it needs to be.  

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36 minutes ago, phil_m said:

I think what others are saying here is that the firmware is pretty much stable to this degree already. Yes, there's always a chance that something will pop up, and I'm sure Line 6 wants to get to the bottom of it. Sometimes there are some pesky bugs that don't want to be caught..

 

 Just to be clear, is it only in this one preset where you've experienced this issue, or is in it multiple presets?

 

Yes, as I've said, I also believe the majority of users have no problem. But the problem is that when I meet a weird bug first hand, that for me points to a deeper problem, together with reports from others encountering weird behaviour (that didn't worry me before), then I back off for now. I'm fine with that. Probably like winning in the lottery if my Litigator patch (same structure) broke down during a show. But I don't play the lottery when I play the guitar for others. And that is how I feel when I encounter strange softwarebehaviour (in the Helix Floor). I would rather play on a smoking amp :-) Yes, for now (no prediction, just how I feel) I've only seen it in one patch (re-built several times, also by Line 6).

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42 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

 

Here is my take on reliability.  When I had my AXE FX Ultra, I had a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro as my foot controller, and 2 Ernie Ball Expression/Volume Pedals as I like the extra travel they have and the grippy surface on them. 

 

Have you ever looked inside an Ernie Ball Pedal?  Its literally a piece of string attached to the heel/toe of the pedal that is wound around the potentiometer.  There are known issues with that string getting worn and breaking and everything else.  People still use the pedal for the reasons they like, knowing its an issue they will/might have to deal with.  The tradeoffs are justified in their heads.

 

In my situation, mine didn't break, but the string was not gripping the pot inside as it should and thus not rotating it properly....Imagine my displeasure when I got to the show and figured that out.  At the time I used the Expression pedal to turn on my lead effect/sounds heel down = lead, toe down = rhythm.  I had over 60+ presets designed this way...that now I had no access or control over rhythm/lead changes....granted this was before a big 4th of July summer bash in front of almost 1000 people.  I had no choice but to do my solo's on my rhythm sound and deal with it.  

 

Come the next day I had two choice, buy another pedal and potentially have the same issue, or move on to a different pedal that maybe didn't 'feel' or react the same way I'd prefer.  Ultimately I moved on cause the way I design my presets (at the time) could not allow for that situation again.  

 

In your case, you have 128 presets per setlist available, and 8 setlists (?) that's a lot of extra space to confine yourself into a physical jail of a single preset, and then complain about a very specific 'bug' when there is an easy workaround of copying/pasting that same preset into the slot next to it and every song just clearing the memory or whatever else is being done to prevent it from happening.  

 

The error you have is not a catastrophic error.  It happens gradually, and when it happens you can easily change presets, on rhythm to the song and no one but yourself will know what happened.  And if done correctly, you can make a super Rockstar pose/motion while you do so you look extra cool to the millions (and millions) of people listening to you.  To me a catastrophic error worthy of your worry would be mid jam session/song it starts emitting a 60 cycle hum or some other buzzing that overpowers your guitar signal.....or, the helix just restarting on its own without anything triggering it, or effects being bypassed or turned on randomly when something else is supposed to be happening.....but these are not happening.....

 

you have a minimal/slow volume decay...that can be easily remedied at the first sign of 'trouble' with a little pre-planning (copy/paste) and a simple foot stomp.  

 

I'm trying not to be harsh, but this thread seems to be about 25 responses longer than it needs to be.  

 

It's hard to imagine many failures in a typical rock show where the word "catastrophic" can legitimately be applied... The stage collapsing, rigging failing, pyrotechnics burning down the joint - that's catastrophic. A loss of signal from the guitar, well, that's just an annoyance. ;-)

 

I saw U2 a number of years ago, and it was pouring down rain most of the show (an outdoor show). They were troopers and played right through it. During one part, the Edge just started walking over one of the catwalks right as he was starting a big solo. His wireless pack completely cut out (shorted out, I imagine), and his guitar went completely silent... This was in front of 50,000 or so people. No one panicked. He just walked back to the stage, a tech brought him another guitar - and they went back and played that part over. This stuff happens. It's not that big of a deal.

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All this melodrama over ONE patch? One. Patch. Did you buy it a ring and exchange vows? Ditch it and build a new one that isn't weird. Use a different amp model, dirt box, IR, whatever... it's not all that hard to get two different amp models sounding nearly identical. There are 1000 ways to build a patch. Watch some YouTube tutorials (Jason Sadites) and try a different approach. Chances are whatever is triggering the behavior won't repeat itself. Patches get corrupted...on a long enough timeline, it happens to everybody.

 

Or you can wait around for L6 to dump a solution in your lap... but here's the ugly truth: You're one guy, with ONE PATCH that has an ultra-specific glitch. They're not gonna be calling any emergency meetings on your behalf, so it might be a really long wait. When you're the only one with a disease, don't expect a telethon.

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32 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

I'm trying not to be harsh, but this thread seems to be about 25 responses longer than it needs to be.  

 

No, you are absolutely right :-) I think it is we have several subjects going. For me it's so simple that I'm not able to think of a patch in a software like a component in an amp. I worry that this and other weird bug reports (and there are quite a few) points to a deeper problems. To sudenly discover that you play with a thin, ugly tone, is one thing. I also worry that that it will freeze, or other things I have read about.

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29 minutes ago, havkayak said:

I worry that this and other weird bug reports (and there are quite a few) points to a deeper problems. To sudenly discover that you play with a thin, ugly tone, is one thing. I also worry that that it will freeze or whatever I now have read about others experiences.

 

If this is the kind of thing that keeps you up at night, then modeling is not for you. They're computers... and computers get weird and fail. No device or manufacturer is immune.... but for the most part, those failures hit a small minority of users. You can scour the internet for the rest of your life and find people b1tching about failures of every modeler ever created, but that doesn't mean that they're all worthless, unstable pieces of crap. Know why? Because it's only the ones with a problem who go online to whine about it. The other 99.97% who have no issues are busy playing...

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22 minutes ago, phil_m said:

his guitar went completely silent... This was in front of 50,000 or so people. No on panicked. He just walked back to the stage, a tech brought him another guitar - and they went back and played that part over. This stuff happens. It's not that big of a deal.

 

Yep.... 

Brian May has 6 VOX AC30's on a Queen stage. He uses two at a time.... when one of the first pair dies the crews slides in the 2nd pair.... if one of those dies the 3rd pair is rolled up. According to Brian, they reach the 3rd pair regularly in an evening. 

 

Brian May does not stop using AC30's because they are unreliable.... he knows what to expect from his amps and he has learned how to work around it. 

 

The OP's problem is much easier to work around, he just refuses to do it. Even if I don't understand that choice... it is his to make. 

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My car broke down. Now I don't drive.

But that's OK. I read that there are criminals on the streets. Sometimes they break into people's houses.

I sit at home with a shotgun in my lap.

I'm worried that if the monsters come, I'll run out of bullets.

Then I'll have to drive my car to get to the gun shop.

What if someone steals my car while I'm in the gun shop buying bullets?

I'll have to call an Uber to get home.

What if the Uber driver is a serial killer?

 

My shrink tells me I worry too much. I'm pretty sure my shrink is a Dalek...... 

 

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33 minutes ago, havkayak said:

I worry that this and other weird bug reports (and there are quite a few) points to a deeper problems. To sudenly discover that you play with a thin, ugly tone, is one thing. I also worry that that it will freeze, or other things I have read about.

 

In short, you have read enough negative comments about the Helix to convince yourself that your one little "niggle" is just the start of worse things to happen. I suspect the vast majority of stuff you have read has already been resolved... but that won't matter.  The damage has already been done to your perception. 

 

IMO.... you are seriously depriving yourself from a fantastic piece of gear over fear of fear. That's too bad! 

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4 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

In short, you have read enough negative comments about the Helix to convince yourself that your one little "niggle" is just the start of worse things to happen.

 

My big toe hurts...I must have a brain tumor.

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15 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

My car broke down. Now I don't drive.

But that's OK. I read that there are criminals on the streets. Sometimes they break into people's houses.

I sit at home with a shotgun in my lap.

I'm worried that if the monsters come, I'll run out of bullets.

Then I'll have to drive my car to get to the gun shop.

What if someone steals my car while I'm in the gun shop buying bullets?

I'll have to call an Uber to get home.

What if the Uber driver is a serial killer?

 

My shrink tells me I worry too much. I'm pretty sure my shrink is a Dalek...... 

 

 

I occasionally read a sports blog from the college I graduated from. This reminds me of some of the hand-wringing I see in the comments there. The other day I saw a guy say something like, "if the other team would have scored touchdowns instead kicking all of those field goals, they would have won by 20!" as if it were some sort of indictment on the team's coaching ("our" team won, btw). It just cracks me up. Some people will dig very hard to find unhappiness...

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There are a lot of posts here I would like to "react" to, but the forum tells me I am "out of reactions" for the day. 

That's censorship! Unacceptable! Why would Line 6 do this to me? Anyone want to buy a Helix? 

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2 minutes ago, codamedia said:

There are a lot of posts here I would like to "react" to, but the forum tells me I am "out of reactions" for the day. 

That's censorship! Unacceptable! Anyone want to buy a Helix? 

 

 The forum only wants what's best for you... Line 6 cares about your mental health. :-D

 

I honestly never knew this was something that was limited... I think it might be in response to some of the troll-y type people that come occasionally and start downvoting everything in site.

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16 hours ago, phil_m said:

 The forum only wants what's best for you... Line 6 cares about your mental health. :-D

 

Nice feature when you think about it :) 

 

16 hours ago, phil_m said:

I honestly never knew this was something that was limited...

 

Seems to be, looks like this....

 reactions.jpg.9fe0bf2cde07fa8e39980043c0c203a3.jpg

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Off topic......Saw Jethro Tull with Martin Barr at an outdoor concert about 15 years ago. His two Matchless amps were both on Anvil crates. About 1/2 way through, the amps fell over because someone hadn't seated the Anvile's lids properly. He just calmly went over and with the crew that was there, put the amps back up and kept playing. That wasn't the only thing that happened either. As frustrated as I know they were, it in no way affected their performance other than doing what they had to do to fix the immediate problem. I kept looklig for two cheap Matchless amps on Ebay but no luck. (was Ebay even around then?)

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6 hours ago, phil_m said:

Line 6 cares about your mental health. :-D

 

6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

My big toe hurts...I must have a brain tumor.

 

6 hours ago, rd2rk said:

My shrink tells me I worry too much. I'm pretty sure my shrink is a Dalek...... 

 

6 hours ago, codamedia said:

There are a lot of posts here I would like to "react" to, but the forum tells me I am "out of reactions" for the day. 

That's censorship! Unacceptable! Why would Line 6 do this to me? Anyone want to buy a Helix? 

 

Your performance suited me and others well. The four of you were brilliant. Not by your statements, but it kept the post up for a long time, so that people interested could read the main score.

 

Thank you! I'll hire you in next time as well, kids! ;-)

 

[Added I just noticed, phil_m. You are titeled as a Line 6 expert. I guess you are an adult, then. I'm sorry!]

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@havkayak

 

I will try, one last time to help you! 

 

The patch that I created from the images in your OP works fine. It does not go silent after 10 hours let alone 3, let alone 30 minutes, let alone 30 seconds.

 

You need to ELIMINATE YOUR COMPUTER from any processes you are doing by building your preset on the Helix. Don't even connect the Helix via USB during the procedure. This is the only way we can eliminate your computer and/or HX Edit from causing the problem! 

 

This advice has been given to you several times during this thread. You appear to completely ignore it... and never acknowledge it. That is really, really frustrating to some of us! 

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20 hours ago, codamedia said:

Your comment about amps and pedals misses reality. Most guitarists I know carry a spare amp... just in case. I always carried two amps... and nowadays with a modeling setup I carry a spare modeler. Nothing has changed in how I approach things, just the style of gear has changed. 

If you have a job that relies on technology (digital/analog/modeling/tube), you absolutely have to be prepared for a catastrophic failure. I feel like if a person can't be bothered to prepare for the possibility of equipment failure, the "job" probably isn't that important. 

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3 hours ago, codamedia said:

@havkayak

 

I will try, one last time to help you! 

 

The patch that I created from the images in your OP works fine. It does not go silent after 10 hours let alone 3, let alone 30 minutes, let alone 30 seconds.

 

You need to ELIMINATE YOUR COMPUTER from any processes you are doing by building your preset on the Helix. Don't even connect the Helix via USB during the procedure. This is the only way we can eliminate your computer and/or HX Edit from causing the problem! 

 

This advice has been given to you several times during this thread. You appear to completely ignore it... and never acknowledge it. That is really, really frustrating to some of us! 

 

That's nice of you. But if you read my post, I never asked for anybody's help. That's a very important clue to look for (if you want to help someone). Maybe that can explain your frustration? It can be a good thing to to take on in life.

 

But if you want, I can clerify what my goal with the post was. I know that the ONLY people that are able to investgate and correct faults in the Helix is the staff at Line 6. But valuable clues are given to them by the amount of people reporting back to them. What you say, and what I say, doesn't mean anything in itself. I wanted to notice other users so they can have it in mind. If that gives more reports to Line 6 about this problem, or things that are similar, then Line 6 have a clue to follow. That is one one of the good things about a forum. It is also a good thing to have a forum to ask ""what do I do now?" But as I said, then I will ask for it.

 

The loudest speaking people in this forum gives me the impression that this is a "fan-club" more than an technical forum. In a fan-club you should expect to be ridiculed when having diverting thoughts. In a technical forum like this, divirting thoughts should be welcome. If those voices are silenced, then it will be a loss. But when I see Line 6 staff joining in on the spitting in this post, it gives me concerns. (That makes me think of my second part of my post, where I talk about Line 6' handeling of my report. It could be something like "Thank you! Yes, we confirm. We'll take it with us. Good bye!)  But in this case (in this forum), as I've said, it was actually a benefit. But in the long run, I think not. But obviously I overrated this platform. But I believe a lot of nice and interested people read my post. What they think and do about it doesn't concern me at all. I just gave voice to my experience.

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1 minute ago, havkayak said:

The loudest speaking people in this forum gives me the impression that this is a "fan-club" more than an technical forum. In a fan-club you should expect to be ridiculed when having diverting thoughts. In a technical forum like this, divirting thoughts should be welcome. If those voices are silenced, then it will be a loss. But when I see Line 6 staff joining in on the spitting in this post, it gives me concerns. (That makes me think of my second part of my post, where I talk about Line 6' handeling of my report.)  But in this case, as I've said, it was actually a benefit. But in the long run, I think not. But obviously I overrated this platform. But I believe a lot of nice and interested people read my post. What they think and do about it doesn't concern me at all. I just gave voice to my experience.

This isn't a technical forum, its a user support forum, meaning users provide support to each other. Of course people who use this device literally weekly with no issues are going to find an issue with a statement that this supremely minor firmware bug would make the device unusable live because it can't be trusted (however, a tube amp that's just as likely to fail at any given time can be?). There has been no Line 6 staff responding in this thread. "Experts" are determined by how often they've been marked as providing accurate help to other people on the forum by the people asking for help and are not paid employees of the company. I hope you find the answers you're looking for, but for future reference, Line 6 barely monitors this forum, so the only way to really alert them to an issue is to start a suppor ticket. Maybe I missed the part in the OP where you were specifically looking for people to recreate your issue and then report it to Line 6, but it sure seemed like you found a bug, support couldn't immediately help you, so you were looking here for "support". Then you were provided multiple ways to circumvent the issue, as well as at least one user that built your patch and does not have the issue and has made a suggestion as to how to eliminate it that seemed to work for them. Good luck.

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5 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

This isn't a technical forum, its a user support forum, meaning users provide support to each other.

 

My support was that someone MIGHT find something, or give focus to something similar or crossing. If there is, and it is reported to Line 6 tech support, it can be a benefit for the whole community. In many cases you don't notice a problem before the light shines on it. In this case it might be, or it might not. It's pure and simple logic. So I disagree with you. This is a technical (support) forum, where such posts also should be found.

 

And thank you for clearifying the somewhat odd titles given in this forum. If you are right, it's actually a relief.

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I can see losing a little confidence in something that has a (minor) flaw. However, extrapolating that minor and easily rectified flaw to a larger or more frequent and higher probability failure leaving you silent at a gig doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, it tends to indicate that you are not prepared to deal with any issue, like a bad cable or similar. No product is perfect, stuff happens. And you can extrapolate that statement to all aspects of life.

 

Move on to another product if you must. I don't see a fan club here, I see people confirming the flaw and offering work-arounds so you can navigate it. If you do move on, be prepared to deal with different flaws from the different products or rigs you go to next, or you'll be jumping from modeler to modeler and spending a lot of time and money unnecessarily.

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