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Helix 2.9

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5 hours ago, amsdenj said:

What would work is block links instead of copy. In a patch, you would add a link to a block in another patch, not a copy. Then any changes to the target block would be see in all the blocks that like to it automatically. Helix doesn't support block links yet. Hopefully it will someday.

 

Well, whether you call it "links" or "global blocks" isn't too relevant as long as the result is the same.

 

Quote

In the absence of that, you have to redo the copy paste to propagate changes. That's a pain, but not that difficult with Helix Native and HX Edit open at the same time.

 

See, I'm not talking about patch creation (I'm using HXN as a block stack all the time for that) but about live playing. And in that case, HXN won't help me at all.

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Seeing a lot of cool immediately usable workflow uses with this update. I'm most excited about the Harmonic Antagonizer model. WOW. I also preordered the POD Go for the more-than-often warm up and cover gig stuff including ease of fit in a carryon. Be interesting to see if the product updates coincide. But I'm not bitching. 

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:35 PM, amsdenj said:

What would work is block links instead of copy. In a patch, you would add a link to a block in another patch, not a copy. Then any changes to the target block would be see in all the blocks that like to it automatically. Helix doesn't support block links yet. Hopefully it will someday. 

 

In the absence of that, you have to redo the copy paste to propagate changes. That's a pain, but not that difficult with Helix Native and HX Edit open at the same time.

 

 

Exactly the same approach I would like to see with setlists. Pointers to presets rather than the actual presets themselves. That way the same preset can be used in multiple setlists without having to copy it to multiple locations. If a block in the preset has the option of being designated as "global" as SaschaFranck and others have been advocating then a change to that block can be propagated out to that preset in any setlist that points to it.

 

Vote it up!     https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-Setlists-to-Helix/911976-23508

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5 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Exactly the same approach I would like to see with setlists. Pointers to presets rather than the actual presets themselves. That way the same preset can be used in multiple setlists without having to copy it to multiple locations. If a block in the preset has the option of being designated as "global" as SaschaFranck and others have been advocating then a change to that block can be propagated out to that preset in any setlist that points to it.

 

Yeah, that'd be very useful, too. Along with an option for the entire preset to either be just a reference/alias or a "hard copy".

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Looking forward to the update. I'm especially excited to hear the Revv Purple channel. I want to see if it gets close to the G3 pedal (which is also based on the purple channel).

I am a little surprised, though. I thought the "missed connections" update from July was supposed to make these kinds of updates come more frequently. I love the idea of the level indicators, and would be thrilled if they would add a DSP meter.

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2 minutes ago, tenorkeith said:

Looking forward to the update. I'm especially excited to hear the Revv Purple channel. I want to see if it gets close to the G3 pedal (which is also based on the purple channel).

I am a little surprised, though. I thought the "missed connections" update from July was supposed to make these kinds of updates come more frequently. I love the idea of the level indicators, and would be thrilled if they would add a DSP meter.

I agree with everything here. I definitely thought the "Helix Core" update was gonna give us a slightly more steady stream of amps/FX at least, between major updates. I hope that momentary snapshot feature makes it to POD Go. I'm gonna be salty about no momentary switches on that one for a minute. Hold to assign is nice, momentary controllers are nicer.

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I’m all for the global blocks or block links.  The stomp isn’t that live friendly if you don’t program something right in one or several blocks which is then contained in several presets/patches.

 

i would even take the ability to save my own default settings.  Even better, to save individual block settings.  Even w/the features of Hx Edit/Stomp, it’s not the best librarian.

 

Sean Meredith-Jones

www.seanmeredithjones.com

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I will will order an helix stomp 5 minutes after the 8 block firmware.

 

For my helix floor I’d like to sélect multiple blocks with my mouse and paste the whole selection to another patch. Actualy the way I do it block per block, save back and forth is a pain.

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On 1/18/2020 at 1:44 PM, phil_m said:


In Stomp Mode, yes.

In Snap/Preset mode, wouldn’t this also give you access to the other four unused Snapshots via press and hold?  I do wish they’d included my request for two snapshots per footswitch. That way you don’t have to hold down the footswitch. 

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28 minutes ago, Melissiah said:

For my helix floor I’d like to sélect multiple blocks with my mouse and paste the whole selection to another patch. Actualy the way I do it block per block, save back and forth is a pain.

 

Yes, that'd be just *really* nice. And in case there wasn't sufficient block space and/or CPU juice - well, there's always the good old "Sorry, we can't do that!" message option.

And now imagine being able to save such a mini-chain (say drive, amp, cab) as a "sub preset". Ok, we can dream...

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On 1/18/2020 at 2:23 PM, gunpointmetal said:

Alright! Now everyone can stop blaming their lollipop sound on not having meters! Hmmmm Revv purple...

 

If metering happen only at output levels, not at each block level, then it’s gonna be pretty much useless.

 

Still, nice to see they are taking care of the aspect.

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10 minutes ago, hideout said:

In Snap/Preset mode, wouldn’t this also give you access to the other four unused Snapshots via press and hold?  I do wish they’d included my request for two snapshots per footswitch. That way you don’t have to hold down the footswitch. 

 

In Snapshot or Preset Mode, the commands from the Command Center don't apply to the switches, so no... I do think if you had Preset Mode set to Stomp/Snap, you could assign a dual function Snapshot switch to one of the top row switches and do the press/release thing, though.

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1 minute ago, PierM said:

 

If metering happen only at output levels, not at each block level, then it’s gonna be pretty much useless.

 

 

Why? Do you have meters on your stomp boxes, too?

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5 minutes ago, PierM said:

 

If metering happen only at output levels, not at each block level, then it’s gonna be pretty much useless.

 

Still, nice to see they are taking care of the aspect.

I kinda see this as a test run with the metering, but input and output would be the most crucial part for leveling patches and making sure you're not clipping any hardware. Internally, it still reacts like pedals for the most part. Lots of the stuff you'd do in a normal guitar chain would definitely NOT be maintaining unity gain throughout the signal chain.

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Just now, gunpointmetal said:

I kinda see this as a test run with the metering, but input and output would be the most crucial part for leveling patches and making sure you're not clipping any hardware. Internally, it still reacts like pedals for the most part. Lots of the stuff you'd do in a normal guitar chain would definitely NOT be maintaining unity gain throughout the signal chain.

 

This. Really, once inside the Helix, there's so much headroom - clipping anything will be pretty much impossible. The only relevant things hence being in- and outputs.

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1 hour ago, Smj7 said:

I’m all for the global blocks or block links.  The stomp isn’t that live friendly if you don’t program something right in one or several blocks which is then contained in several presets/patches.

 

Yeah, even with 8 blocks, the Stomp would likely profit the most from something such as global blocks.

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2 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

This. Really, once inside the Helix, there's so much headroom - clipping anything will be pretty much impossible. The only relevant things hence being in- and outputs.

I’ve had the experience a couple of times where I’ve experienced a clipping sound of the digital sort.... the nasty kind.

 

it turned out it was in the delay repeats.  I think i was using the line 6 vintage delay.  I upped the bit rate to 16bits instead of 12... I also lowered the drive pedal block feeding it which seemed to solve it.  I didn’t experiment though whether the lowering of the input level or changing the bit rate affected it.

 

we should be able to theoretically get the best of both worlds though?  If you mute all the blocks and then un-mute them one by one, you should be able to monitor where the excess gain buildup is if you really need to by watching the output metres.

 

Sean Meredith-Jones

www.seanmeredithjones.com

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1 hour ago, Smj7 said:

I think i was using the line 6 vintage delay.  I upped the bit rate to 16bits instead of 12... I also lowered the drive pedal block feeding it which seemed to solve it.  I didn’t experiment though whether the lowering of the input level or changing the bit rate affected it.


It has been mentioned many times that (especially) the vintage delay could induce nasty digital clipping. In fact it was almost regarded as a “feature” of that type of unit. If you experience clipping with this model upping the bit rate helps, but the simple solution is to ramp up the “Headroom” setting on Page 2. That should do it.

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Lol all meters on Helix with the exception of a possible gain reduction meter, are completely useless, and are really nothing more than L6 lip service for all the people needlessly clamouring for meters. Id much rather see L6 focusing on things that matter.

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Well, I think meters are fine for inputs and outputs - but I'd rather have a quicker way to jump to an output block to actually adjust the levels rather than watching them...

Seriously, I have no idea how something as essential as adjusting overall patch volume is handled in such a super-tedious way. Sure, the semi-modular structure, routing to various outs and all that - but I'd take a bet that 90% of all live patches use the bottom right output (ok, maybe the top right, too, for simpler patches) to feed FOH and monitors. So please give me a shortcut to get there quickly instead of having to navigate to it using the joystick.

In the end, it's pretty much wellknown in the Helix crowd that balancing the volumes of multiple patches is just plain bad.

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1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

Well, I think meters are fine for inputs and outputs - but I'd rather have a quicker way to jump to an output block to actually adjust the levels rather than watching them...

Seriously, I have no idea how something as essential as adjusting overall patch volume is handled in such a super-tedious way. Sure, the semi-modular structure, routing to various outs and all that - but I'd take a bet that 90% of all live patches use the bottom right output (ok, maybe the top right, too, for simpler patches) to feed FOH and monitors. So please give me a shortcut to get there quickly instead of having to navigate to it using the joystick.

In the end, it's pretty much wellknown in the Helix crowd that balancing the volumes of multiple patches is just plain bad.

 

 With the option to have rotating the joystick move through the signal chain, it's actually really fast to get to the output block.

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13 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

 With the option to have rotating the joystick move through the signal chain, it's actually really fast to get to the output block.

 

A) Not really. At least other units offer *way* faster access to master patch volume.

B) My main patch layout is the victim of a bug, I can *only* scroll to the lower output block from the upper output block, there's no way to get there whenever I'm in path 2 (already reported this), so while generally possible, in my case it doesn't work.

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8 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Well, I think meters are fine for inputs and outputs - but I'd rather have a quicker way to jump to an output block to actually adjust the levels rather than watching them...

Seriously, I have no idea how something as essential as adjusting overall patch volume is handled in such a super-tedious way. Sure, the semi-modular structure, routing to various outs and all that - but I'd take a bet that 90% of all live patches use the bottom right output (ok, maybe the top right, too, for simpler patches) to feed FOH and monitors. So please give me a shortcut to get there quickly instead of having to navigate to it using the joystick.

In the end, it's pretty much well known in the Helix crowd that balancing the volumes of multiple patches is just plain bad.

no not really....Ive never had a problem with balancing my volumes....dont see how a meter will help.  Different sounds appear at different volumes yet look the same on a meter.  Its best to use your ears....just like you would on a pedal board.  I do all my patch leveling in the amp block.....after I ensure thart each block is not adding volume compared tp the bypass state.(Obviously Ill run a drive harder to push an amp input)
I will use the meter to set the best gain structure tho!

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1 hour ago, lawrence_Arps said:

no not really....Ive never had a problem with balancing my volumes....dont see how a meter will help. 

 

Well, the problem with balancing volumes in fact hasn't got anything to do with meters but all with the actual output volume parameter requiring a comparatively huge effort to get you there.

Personally, I only "need" meters to watch out for potential clipping on the master output(s), which can easily become a critical thing in case your patches are leveled rather hot and then you're feeding, say, your sequencer out into the Helix via USB additionally.

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How funny ....

Now that meters are announced: Why is there any reason to debate about them?
Some want to use them - and now they can.

Other don't want to use them - and still aren't forced to.

 

How is that discussion still a thing?

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10 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Well, I think meters are fine for inputs and outputs - but I'd rather have a quicker way to jump to an output block to actually adjust the levels rather than watching them...

Seriously, I have no idea how something as essential as adjusting overall patch volume is handled in such a super-tedious way. Sure, the semi-modular structure, routing to various outs and all that - but I'd take a bet that 90% of all live patches use the bottom right output (ok, maybe the top right, too, for simpler patches) to feed FOH and monitors. So please give me a shortcut to get there quickly instead of having to navigate to it using the joystick.

In the end, it's pretty much wellknown in the Helix crowd that balancing the volumes of multiple patches is just plain bad.

Without the use of an external device,  i just dont see how youd change your input volume anyway.....other than the pad, which isnt going to be the difference between clipping and a clean signal...nor why youd want to, since the inputs are optimized for an instrument level signal. 

 

Gain reduction meters i can understand since mild compression and crossing over threshold points can be tough to hear. Sometimes you choose to compress the peaks only which would make GR vital in this case.

 

Output meters simply for the purpose of patch leveling isnt going to be very accurate. For instance a sound with lots of bass can show greater value than a sound that is actually louder. I look at meters as more of an indication of sound energy more so than any volume indication.

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17 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

How funny ....

Now that meters are announced: Why is there any reason to debate about them?
Some want to use them - and now they can.

Other don't want to use them - and still aren't forced to.

 

How is that discussion still a thing?

Because some would rather not see L6 wasting time on pointless endeavours just to quiet the masses. That and its a public discussion forum.....would be just as easy to say "if the thread is such a bother, why read it?"

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8 minutes ago, willjrock said:

Output meters simply for the purpose of patch leveling isnt going to be very accurate.

 

I would never do that. I'd only use them to check for clipping.

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58 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

How funny ....

Now that meters are announced: Why is there any reason to debate about them?
Some want to use them - and now they can.

Other don't want to use them - and still aren't forced to.

 

How is that discussion still a thing?

 

Because folks will argue over the color of $hite around here...;)

 

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15 minutes ago, willjrock said:

Because some would rather not see L6 wasting time on pointless endeavours just to quiet the masses. ...

:-D :-D :-D

 

Must be the  Illuminati behind this 'meter conspiracy'  -  just to keep '...some..' from getting that one crucial feature that '...they...' cannot live without ....

 

 

BTW if it's really '....the masses...' that wanted this - what's wrong with it?

Better keep the majority unsatisfied and add some exotic features for some few? (and how do you know that '....some...' are one of them?)

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15 hours ago, willjrock said:

Lol all meters on Helix with the exception of a possible gain reduction meter, are completely useless, and are really nothing more than L6 lip service for all the people needlessly clamouring for meters. Id much rather see L6 focusing on things that matter.

 

How foolish of L6 to deliver the Helix's most requested feature! I'm sure it'll prove useless to the thousands of people that requested it over the years.

 

The metering is pretty much the only thing that interests me in this update so I'll take it.

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3 hours ago, willjrock said:

Output meters simply for the purpose of patch leveling isnt going to be very accurate. For instance a sound with lots of bass can show greater value than a sound that is actually louder. I look at meters as more of an indication of sound energy more so than any volume indication.

 

In regards to output meters, we don't know how the meters will be calibrated so it's impossible to agree or disagree with your statement.

  • Peak or RMS
  • Slow or Fast
  • Weighted or Not Weighted (this takes "bass energy" into account)
  • Which meter system was used? 

I think it is best to wait and see how they have been implemented/calibrated before we write them off as useless :) 

 

Anybody familiar with meters knows how to compensate volumes for various tones/signals using those same meters. The more you do it, the better/faster you get at it. EG: I KNOW where I wan't my lead tone compared to my driven tone, clean tone, acoustic, baritone, wah, banjo, pedal steel, etc...etc... etc... 

 

Once I am familiar with the meter I am working with, I can make these adjustments with a 95% - 100% success rate every time. FOR ME, that process is WAY FASTER than the proverbial "use your ears". PLEASE NOTE: I did say 95% - 100% of the time. There are certainly times when a final adjustment is done "by ear" but only when in context... such as in a rehearsal or on a stage with the full band.... not isolated. 

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Wanna check in and see if anyone knows if it's even possible for the Helix system to potentiallly update to include polyphonic pitch shifting?!  It has been mentioned soooo much here and many places on ideascale, if it can't be done just tell us. 

If it can.... please, it would bring so much 

~cheers

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7 minutes ago, JaH337 said:

Wanna check in and see if anyone knows if it's even possible for the Helix system to potentiallly update to include polyphonic pitch shifting?!  It has been mentioned soooo much here and many places on ideascale, if it can't be done just tell us. 

If it can.... please, it would bring so much 

~cheers

 

Yes, it's possible, and it's going to happen eventually.

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I agree with everyone here who advises to use your ears but the more visual feedback the better IMHO. One of the advantages of digital modeling is that it has the capability to display additional information on a nice sized color screen, info that you don't get on analog pedals. I am happy to see meters coming. Would love to see other visual feedback as well. A visual on when the compressors cross the threshold and kick in would be great. Modifying the screen for the parametric EQ so that it is depicted visually and shows the frequency curve in the same fashion that Helix's Global EQ already provides would also be very useful. A RTA would also be a fine addition for dialing in the EQ. Makes sense to leverage the screen anywhere it adds value and doesn't cost too much DSP.

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/RTA-Real-Time-Analyzer-screen-for-the-Helix/805922-23508

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-graphical-representation-of-Parametric-EQ-curve-to-Editor/831163-23508

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22 minutes ago, JaH337 said:

Wanna check in and see if anyone knows if it's even possible for the Helix system to potentiallly update to include polyphonic pitch shifting?!  It has been mentioned soooo much here and many places on ideascale, if it can't be done just tell us. 

If it can.... please, it would bring so much 

~cheers

 

Agree, vote it up.   https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Polyphonic-Everything/960087-23508

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17 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

Yes, it's possible, and it's going to happen eventually.

 

May I ask if a MIDI tempo sync gonna happen with the looper (with specifying the number of bars to record)? And/Or a multichannel looper? Just to know if I have to buy a new gear next month, but I will understand if you prefer not to mention that information :)

 

To come back to the main topic, I agree with HonestOpinion, the more the screen is used in a smart way, the more I will be happy too. Thanks guys for bringing another great update to this machine.

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20 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

I am happy to see meters coming. Would love to see other visual feedback as well. A visual on when the compressors cross the threshold and kick in would be great.

 

Aside from clipping indicators and output meters, 2.9 says it will also include "gain reduction meters"....

Unless implemented in some very odd way, what you are suggesting is usually what those are for. 

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3 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

Aside from input clipping and output meters, 2.9 says it will also include "gain reduction meters"....

Unless implemented in some very odd way, I assumed those are exactly what you are describing. 

 

Hope you are correct, sure sounds that way. That would be awesome!

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