Helix - Potential New User Needs Advice

[Johnny_Chicago]

My apologies if answers to my questions are contained within the forum already.  I am new to the forum.

 

I play guitar in a cover band.  We primarily play 70's and 80's songs (Led Zep, AC/DC, Rush, U2, SRV, Van Halen etc.).  My rig is a PRS Custom 24 into a number of pedals (Line 6 DL4, MM4, Dude O/D, compression, wah etc.) into a Dr. Z Maz 38.  I love the sound I get.  The Dr. Z needs to be run fairly loud to optimize tone.  Our typical venues are smaller bars.  Vocals always go into some type of PA.  More than half the time my amp is not mic'd, thus no guitar coming through the PA.

 

I am very interested in the Line 6 Helix.  I would love to have access to unlimited amp and pedal sounds. It seems like I could have the optimum tones set up for each song that we are playing.  Hit a button - move on to the next tones for the song.  This could make all the tweaking of pedals and amp in-between songs obsolete.  Also I love the idea of getting a great tone at all different volume levels.  I am in a constant battle with bar owners/sound guy/lead singer over my volume level.  I would like to be able to get a great tone at a lower volume level.  This is impossible with my current analog rig.

 

Before buying I want to make sure Helix is the right fit for me.

 

I do not have a home studio.  I do not record.  I do not utilize any programs like Pro Tools etc.  I would strictly be using the Helix for my primary gigging, rehearsal and home practice rig.  I would like to think I am better than average with computers.  I utilize desktop and laptop computers in my work and home lives.  I have watched many YouTube videos showing how to operate and create tones with Helix.  It seems fairly intuitive.  But, it is also seems like you could get lost with the tremendous number of settings and tweaks you can make to an equally tremendous number of parameters.

1. Will I get lost in all this capability?
2. Is this overkill for my intended use?
3. How long will it take me for basic programming of the Helix for a full night of songs (40 "ish")?

 

As noted above, much of the time I will not be running direct into a PA.  I will need to also buy a FRFR powered speaker.  I have watched way too many YouTube videos on this.  Some people say that these speakers work great for gigging.  Others say they don't.  If I go this route my instincts tell me that buying a Line 6 product makes the most sense since it should be fully compatible with the Helix.  I like the idea of the Powercab 212.  Having a stereo capability is appealing.  I also like the idea that the same FRFR speaker can be used for rehearsal and home practice - at various volume levels

1. Will a quality FRFR powered speaker work well for my type of gigging?
2. Is a Powercab 212 a good option for my application?
3. Why does the Powercab have different IRs when the Helix also has IRs (maybe this question will expose my lack of understanding)?
4. Some of the YouTube videos say there is a fair amount of hiss that comes through a FRFR powered speaker - is this a problem?
5. Are there other quality FRFR speakers I should consider (I am a tone snob - I've seen some pretty consistent bad reviews on some of the cheaper products out there)?

 

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and comments!

 

 

[JLondon]

Oh my goodness!  A single answer to your last questions is that If both the Powercab 212 and the Helix are in your budget - buy and don't look back.  The only other FRFR option I would even consider (if budget friendly) is the Mission Engineering Gemini line.  Still favor Powercab and it's "cab in the room" sound without even counting the fact that it also communicates with Helix via L6 LINK and cable. There will be a learning curve so I wouldn't sell my analog equipment until you're more comfortable with the new tech.  But once you get over the learning hump, you'll be flabbergasted at how cheap the new equipment really is compared to the money you've spent in the past.  The only exception to this comment would maybe be if you played a lot of really heavy/chunky metal that pretty much requires a 4X12 cab.  You also still have to consider (just like with your existing equip.) the difference between how things sound at home or studio and different size venues.  That doesn't change.  Question 1) - Yes you absolutely can get lost but only if you choose to allow it.  Hopefully you're not A.D.D.  The Helix Floor (which is what I think you should consider) is a Swiss Army Knife but it's also the simplest tech user interface out there of its kind.  Make it easy on yourself, forget about routing a bunch of your 'hard to part with' pedals through it (with the exception of an extra expression pedal).  Also, I would recommend ignoring the millions of IR's out there unless you're already familiar and have a favorite.  But basically, just attempt to recreate the system you already use along with what you've wished for in the past but didn't have room on the board.  Question 2) -  Absolutely not but you obviously will have room to grow for future needs.  Question 3) -  Completely depends upon how well you take my advice to question 1 and how disciplined you are and how focused you remain.  Start by simply sticking with recreating your current setup.  Create a template preset resembling your current board.  Then make 40 presets based on your song list order by copy and pasting the template and adjusting as needed.  Each song preset can have its own "snapshots for going back and forth between gain and mod settings as needed (intro/verse/chorus/mods/etc).  Once you've watched a couple YouTube vids and learned basic user interface  it shouldn't take long at all.  Most everybody has done this and already has a pretty good concept of the basics before even purchasing.  Only after I achieved your initial goal would I start goofing around with the other possibilities the Helix/Powercab offers.  Good Luck to you!

 

[cruisinon2]

 

On 2/2/2020 at 12:06 PM, Johnny_Chicago said:

 

1. Will I get lost in all this capability?

If you suffer from galloping OCD,  then it's a distinct possibility, yes. ;)

 

There are a million things to adjust... experiment and find out what settings tend to work for you, but don't fixate on tweaking every available parameter or you'll end up doing nothing else.

1. Is this overkill for my intended use?

 

No... I'd say a significant percentage of Helix-ers are using it exactly as you describe.

1. How long will it take me for basic programming of the Helix for a full night of songs (40 "ish")?

There's no way to answer this one, as there are numerous contributing factors... how tech savvy you are, how long it takes you to wrap your head around how modelers work, specifically what they are (AND aren't) designed to do, etc etc.

 

Expect a learning curve, though... possibly a lengthy one, especially if you're new to modeling. It's not an amp, and expecting it to behave the same way your analog gear does WILL result in disappointment. You have to approach it as if you were in a recording studio, listening through studio monitors in the control room to a mic-ed amp next door.. modelers produce recorded tones, NOT the "amp in the room" sound that you're used to. This is a deal breaker for some.

 

 

Quote

 

I have watched way too many YouTube videos on this.  Some people say that these speakers work great for gigging.  Others say they don't.

 

Yup... and those opposing views will endure forever. Some guys can't live without the aforementioned "amp in the room" thing, and they pronounce modeling to be worthless as a result. In the end it's all personal preference, and modeling isn't for everybody. You'll have to be the judge.

 

Quote

1. Will a quality FRFR powered speaker work well for my type of gigging?

 

Will it work? Yes. But whether or not you'll like the results is the question that really needs answering, and there is but one way to figure that out. Be prepared to experiment for a while, and DON'T expect instant gratification... it doesn't happen for most. And fwiw, this is not peculiar to Helix. Any modeler you choose will present the same challenges, as you're moving to a very different kind of rig than what you're used to.

 

Why does the Powercab have different IRs when the Helix also has IRs (maybe this question will expose my lack of understanding)?

 

IR's are a their own unique and bottomless rabbit hole. I'd ignore them at the outset, and get used to the onboard cab and mic sims first... then you can take 6 month sabbatical and start experimenting with IR's. It tends to get overwhelming for seasoned modeling vets... for a novice, it'll just give you a migraine and likely buyer's remorse.

1. Some of the YouTube videos say there is a fair amount of hiss that comes through a FRFR powered speaker - is this a problem?

There's always a noise floor, no matter what you're playing through... but that's what noise gates are for. Don't worry about it.

 

1. Are there other quality FRFR speakers I should consider (I am a tone snob - I've seen some pretty consistent bad reviews on some of the cheaper products out there)?

I can find you a $hitty review of anything. Hell, I've seen lousy reviews of the Sistine Chapel, but it impressed me...

 

Decide on a budget, and look at what's available in your price range. Ultimately you'll just have to pick something and then get to work. But as I said earlier, expect a learning curve... if you think that you'll pick up your shiny new toys on Tuesday, and be ready to gig with them on Friday night, you are sorely mistaken...and it's a very real possibility that it would be the worst gig of your life, and you'd be returning everything Saturday morning, thoroughly convinced that it's useless crap... and that would be a shame. I spent a solid 2 months with the Helix before I felt comfortable enough to get on stage with it, and I had already been using modelers live for years at that point. What you're getting involved with is entirely different than just plugging in an amp and cranking it to 11. There are some excellent Helix tutorials on YouTube (particularly Jason Sadites' channel) that are worth watching. It's a good place to start.

 

 

[silverhead]

It's already been mentioned but I will reiterate. Modelers in general, including Helix, are designed to produce the sound/tone that a producer or recording engineer in the control room hears after placing a mic in front of an amp that's generally located in another room. The producer/recording engineer is not hearing the sound that the guitar player is hearing. If you move to modeling and FRFR on stage you will not hear the sound that you are used to hearing.

 

Is the sound/tone you currently have and love based primarily on the fact that you have your unmic'd amp on stage at loud volume? If so, you may be in for tough transition to modeling. I would recommend you answer this question for yourself before investing in modeling past the point of no return. Rent a Helix and an FRFR speaker for at least a month, with an option to buy or return.

 

If you can learn to love the modeled tones the flexibility and convenience of modeling is a great advantage. Your battles with bar owners/sound guy/lead singer over your volume can disappear if you also run the Helix output into the mixer/PA and let the audience hear a properly mixed guitar level in the house. Your stage monitor will only be for your benefit - it will no longer have to be loud enough to fill the entire room (while simultaneously overpowering everything else). But again - if the stage volume and the pumping amp/cab and speaker are the reasons you currently love your tone you might not get that feeling from Helix and FRFR.

[Johnny_Chicago]

Wow - thank you everyone for your very insightful comments!  This is exactly what I needed to hear.  Looking forward to getting my hands on a Helix and Powercab 212!  I greatly appreciate all your perspectives!

[Floydea]

On 2/3/2020 at 11:57 AM, silverhead said:

Your battles with bar owners/sound guy/lead singer over your volume can disappear if you also run the Helix output into the mixer/PA and let the audience hear a properly mixed guitar level in the house. Your stage monitor will only be for your benefit - it will no longer have to be loud enough to fill the entire room (while simultaneously overpowering everything else).

^^^This x100

 

Myself and the other guitarist in my band run our Helix's straight into our QSC mixer (been doing this for years).  Our L6 FRFR's are used as floor monitors only.