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Using Helix to change channels via MIDI on SYN 2

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I apologize up front for my MIDI ignorance. I have a SYN2 preamp and want to use my Helix to change channels in snapshots and I am totally lost. I have been told that it is simple once you get it but I have yet to get it. The SYN 2 is simple to program using presets....I go to a preset, set the preamp channel I want, hold down a button until it flashes and it is done. It does not work like this in snapshots. I was told that I have to " change the midi command preset number with each snapshot ." I don't have a clue how to do this. If someone could PM me and lay out a step by step "Helix for a complete MIDIot" set of instructions. I would appreciate it. I don't want to take up space on this forum and bore anybody. I have viewed a lot of videos on this to no avail....

thanks in advance!

rick

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In Global Settings>MIDI/Tap Tempo, set "MIDI PC Send" to OFF. This prevents Helix from sending it's default PC at Preset Load, allowing you to control the PC# sent using Snapshots.

Make sure that the BASE CHANNEL is set to the same one as the SYN2. Default is Channel 1. If the SYN2 is set to OMNI, set it to 1. Not essential, but Best Practice.

Load a Helix Preset that you want to use for this purpose. Make sure you're in the Snapshot you want loaded when the Preset loads.

Open Command Center. See the little lightning bolts? Those are Instant Commands (IC), sent at Preset Load and on Snapshot Change.

Select the first one (IC1). Set COMMAND to "Bank/Program". MIDI CH defaults to BASE. Ignore Bank CC00/32. Set "Program" to the PC# of the SYN2 Preset you want to call

Save The Helix Preset.

Repeat for each Snapshot. If you fail to set a Snapshot, when that Snapshot is selected no message will be sent, leaving you on the last SYN2 Preset called. Not necessarily a good thing. Set ALL Snapshots, saving the preset each time. Whether or not saving each time is necessary depends on the setting of Global Settings>Preferences SNAPSHOT RECALL. Getting in the habit of saving each time you change a Snapshot is another Best Practices thing.

 

That's it!

 

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Thanks for the help, but I am still kind of lost. 

1) Do you have a SYN2? It has this fool proof MIDI system built in that works with the Helix and Helix presets. It also worked well with my old Digitech GSP 1101.

Set up a preset, find the SYN2 preamp I want, hold a button in until it flashes, and then repeat for the next preset. Go back to the old preset and it automatically switches back to the amp that I assigned it. It works this way for Helix or the Digitech

2) I tried setting up a new preset with snapshots. I am finding if you are in snapshot mode, it kind of alters the old presets and then the old foolproof system does not work. So I guess I will have to forget about the old presets unless I go back to preset mode?

3) So once I am in snapshot mode, I am in snapshot mode? Not that it is a bad thing, it just seems to change a lot of stuff. I will have to get used to some new things here.

You make it sound so simple and I think it is. I am just missing something really basic and may need to go back a few steps.

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On 2/2/2020 at 10:24 PM, rd2rk said:

In Global Settings>MIDI/Tap Tempo, set "MIDI PC Send" to OFF. This prevents Helix from sending it's default PC at Preset Load, allowing you to control the PC# sent using Snapshots.

 

When this is set to ON, Helix automatically sends a Program Change (PC) ON PRESET LOAD relative the the PC# of the Helix Preset. I'm assuming that you have a Helix Floor unit. Preset 01A = PC#000; Preset # 01B = PC# 001; etc.. Setting "MIDI PC  SEND" to OFF disables this function, so that when you assign a PC# to an IC in Command Center, that's ALL that gets sent.

 

I had a quick look at the Syn2 manual. There's no indicator for what preset is selected, so you need to figure out how to keep a record of what Syn2 Preset you want to use with each Helix Preset (default Syn2 preset called by Snapshot 1 when the Helix Preset loads), and which Syn2 presets are called by all the other Snapshots in a given Helix Preset.

With 1024 Helix Presets, each having 8 Snapshots, each of which can call any of 128 Syn2 Presets, you NEED a system. 

 

If all you want to do is change channels on the Syn2 it's a LOT easier.

In the IC Command dialog, select "Control Change". Set the CC# as follows.:

 

Channel 1A = 56

Channel 1B = 57

Channel 2A = 58

Channel 2B = 59

CC#60 = BYPASS

CC#64 = MUTE

 

I've attached a sample preset. When it loads it sends (on Snapshot 1) PC# 0.

The Syn2 manual is not clear on whether it numbers it's presets 0-127 or 1-128. In either case it'll call Preset 1.

 

Snapshot 2 sends PC# 1

Snapshot 3 sends PC # 2

Snapshot 4 sends PC#3

Snapshot 5 sends CC#56

Snapshot 6 sends CC#57

Snapshot 7 sends CC#58

Snapshot 8 sends CC#69

 

The value sent with the CC#s is 127, per the Syn2 Manual.

If you use a MIDI Monitor, you'll see that The Program Changes send on the BASE Channel (default 1), but Snapshot 1 (or whatever Snapshot you set to load FIRST) also sends CC#0 Value 0, but it sends on Channel 16. Only the first Snapshot loaded does this.

That's necessary because of the peculiar way that Command Center processes Instant Commands. Don't worry about it unless you have another MIDI device listening on Channel 16.

 

Yes, it's complicated, at first, until you learn the rules.

Study the way that I've set up Command Center and hopefully it will make sense.

Feel free to ask if it doesn't.

 

Good Night!

 

 

Syn2 - A.hlx

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16 hours ago, rd2rk said:

When this is set to ON, Helix automatically sends a Program Change (PC) ON PRESET LOAD relative the the PC# of the Helix Preset. I'm assuming that you have a Helix Floor unit.

 

Ah....SO when this is off it changes my patches ability to move between preamps. That makes sense. I don't have a Helix Floor model. I have the rack. I have not really found any differences in the two. I will be trying our the stuff you sent me in the next week.

One other dumb question (among the many I have asked....)

Once I change to some form of snapshot setting on the footswitches, I am stuck there, right? It would be cool to be able to have a preset one way and then one that has snapshopt for the next. However, seeing that the change is in global settings, that kind of says it all.....

 

I really really appreciate your time and patience and hope that I can pay it forward to someone.

 

thanks,

rick

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1 hour ago, rwinking said:

 

Ah....SO when this is off it changes my patches ability to move between preamps. That makes sense. I don't have a Helix Floor model. I have the rack. I have not really found any differences in the two. I will be trying our the stuff you sent me in the next week.

One other dumb question (among the many I have asked....)

Once I change to some form of snapshot setting on the footswitches, I am stuck there, right? It would be cool to be able to have a preset one way and then one that has snapshopt for the next. However, seeing that the change is in global settings, that kind of says it all.....

 

I really really appreciate your time and patience and hope that I can pay it forward to someone.

 

thanks,

rick

 

You're still not getting it.

 

The Global Setting doesn't put you into some sort of Snapshot Only Mode, nor does it prevent you from using Helix preamps vs the Syn2 Preamps.

In fact, it EXPANDS your options. All the Global Settings change does is prevent Helix from sending a Program Change of it's OWN CHOOSING by DEFAULT.

It puts the power IN YOUR HANDS! You can use ANY Helix Preset with ANY Syn2 Preset!

 

Your Syn2 Preset determines which Syn2 Preamp you're using. If you want to use a Helix Preamp instead, just set up a snapshot that sends the Syn2 BYPASS message and at the same time turns ON the Helix Preamp!

 

"It would be cool to be able to have a preset one way and then one that has snapshot for the next. However, seeing that the change is in global settings, that kind of says it all....."

 

While the footswitch configuration in Global Settings is the same for all presets as far as which switches you see on the Floor/Controller, you can get to any other configuration using the MODE switch, or by pressing the Up/and Down buttons simultaneously.

 

Or maybe you're talking about something else entirely. I'm confused as to the conclusions you're coming to - both what those conclusions are and how you're getting there!

 

At this point I'm going to make that awful suggestion that everybody hates to hear - RTM! Not only will it answer some of your questions, it will teach you the correct terminology to use when ASKING questions, to avoid confusion on the part of those trying to help!

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I think you over complicated the process and my questions. I had a friend come  over and read your post and he looked at the helix and said 'It doesn't have to be that complicated." I just went to the Command Center, change Command to Bank/Prog and then dial the preamp number (eg 56) hit save and it was done.

Another guy on the Synergy forum said the same thing.

Anyway, I do appreciate your time on this and if anyone else is having a problem, PM me. If I can do this, anyone can.

It is basically a twp step process.

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25 minutes ago, rwinking said:

I think you over complicated the process and my questions. I had a friend come  over and read your post and he looked at the helix and said 'It doesn't have to be that complicated." I just went to the Command Center, change Command to Bank/Prog and then dial the preamp number (eg 56) hit save and it was done.

Another guy on the Synergy forum said the same thing.

Anyway, I do appreciate your time on this and if anyone else is having a problem, PM me. If I can do this, anyone can.

It is basically a twp step process.

 

Give a man a fish.....

 

Bank/Prog sends Program Change messages, PC#s.

The "Preamp # 56" as described in the SYN2 manual, is a Control Change message, CC#.

While you can certainly use PC# 56 to call a Preset #56 on your device that simply changes channels, there's more to using Snapshots with your device than what you just did..

But, hey, if that's all you need, and your friend has no problem coming over and programming your device for you when you need more, and you're OK with that, Rock On!

My over-complication was about teaching you how to do it yourself.

 

Like learning to fish.

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Again, you seem to be missing something. My friend did not come over and do it for me. He showed me how to do it and taught me how to understand it in a non complicated manner. I see now exactly what is going on.  

If I am in a band with someone and they want to know how to make a d min 7 flat five chord I can explain it fairly easily to them without going into my old four semesters of music theory and Bach four voice writing that I was required to do. Usually they say :That was easier than I thought.”

I also know people who can really complicate it and then blame the misunderstanding on the student.

There is an art to teaching my friend.

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