hx stomp HX Stomp Issues with External Drive and Boost Effects

[shokunin]

Hi! This is my first post in the forums and I'm a somewhat new HX Stomp user. I have used the M9 in a similar setup but upgraded to the stomp for added versatility of running direct in live and studio situations. For me, the Stomp is mostly taking care of time-based and modulation effects. My typical setup is tuner > compressor > overdrive > boost > hx stomp. From there, I either run the stomp direct to the PA (being careful to change the output to line level) or into the front of my Deluxe Reverb (with instrument level output impedance). So far, everything sounds great except when I engage my Katana Boost.

 

I typically run boosts after overdrives to give me more volume for leads. When not using the stomp, engaging a boost after an overdrive gives me more volume for solos. When running into the input of the stomp, however, I have found that engaging a boost actually results in more compression and less volume. For context, I do not use any of the HX stomp overdrive models and my input impedance is set for instrument level. I've tried three different overdrive pedals (Nobels ODR-1, Tube Screamer, and Wampler Euphoria) and the boosts I've tried after the drives (all with the same results) are the Keeley Katana, Fulltone 2B boost, and Xotic EP Booster. With each of these, no matter how high I turn the volume (without any extra gain stages after the boost), the resulting sound to the amp or the board is more compressed and lower in volume. I removed my compressor and tuner from the signal chain and tested my patch cables to try to isolate the issue to just my overdrives, boosts, and stomp. No matter the combination of boost after overdrive, the result is the same.

 

To ensure it's not an issue with my amp, I further isolated my boost / overdrive pedals and bypassed the stomp entirely. When I engage the boost after the overdrive directly into the amp, the sound is what I would expect - still overdriven but with more volume. Once the stomp enters the signal chain and I engage the boost pedal after the overdrive, the volume drops. It's as if the stomp is unable to accommodate the additional output from the boost and the overdrive. I would expect this to happen if I were running a boost into an overdrive but it seems odd when running a boost after an overdrive. I should also note that I have tried this same setup with in both analog and DSP bypass. I have also changed the global EQ to have a few dB extra output at the end of the stomp's six blocks with the same results. This also occurs whether or not any of my other blocks on the stomp are engaged.

 

As I said, I am new to the forum. And if there is already a topic on this, please point me in that direction. Any theories / help would be appreciated. 

 

Andrew

[rd2rk]

Can't tell you why it works that way. The solution is to put your Boost pedal AFTER the stomp, or in the FX Loop after the Stomp's amp. Or, just use a Stomp button or Snapshot to boost the Output Block Level.

[guitarboy_02451]

You could go to one of the settings in the Cab model, and setup a snap shot for like a +6 db boost. This would be after the amp model...

[LukeMolk]

It could be the output level on the stomp is too low. You may have to got through Global settings and see what your output lvl is.

 

[cmaness94]

Sorry to reply to an older thread, but I have came across the same problem (or similar anyway)

 

The problem I am having is that no matter what gain pedals  I stack in front of the Stomp, I get the same results. ( more distortion, more compression, less volume)

This creates an issue, because I really enjoy stacking gain pedals to "goose" my amp harder and harder each time. (Rat->Muff->Boost) I can't do this if the signal just gets smashed with each pass. I bypass the Stomp and ran the board into my amp- works as it should. I bypass the amp block in the stomp, then put it in the front end of my amp- works as it should. I have tried changing the amps gain/volume ratios, the input impedance, the Stomp's level. I cannot figure out why this isn't working. Could it be the amp model I am using (OR80) or is this just a "feature". I know plenty of people run external gain and use the Stomp for just the amp/cab sim, and I don't think this would be the case if there wasn't a way around this...... Please help!

[phil_m]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:32 AM, cmaness94 said:

Sorry to reply to an older thread, but I have came across the same problem (or similar anyway)

 

The problem I am having is that no matter what gain pedals  I stack in front of the Stomp, I get the same results. ( more distortion, more compression, less volume)

This creates an issue, because I really enjoy stacking gain pedals to "goose" my amp harder and harder each time. (Rat->Muff->Boost) I can't do this if the signal just gets smashed with each pass. I bypass the Stomp and ran the board into my amp- works as it should. I bypass the amp block in the stomp, then put it in the front end of my amp- works as it should. I have tried changing the amps gain/volume ratios, the input impedance, the Stomp's level. I cannot figure out why this isn't working. Could it be the amp model I am using (OR80) or is this just a "feature". I know plenty of people run external gain and use the Stomp for just the amp/cab sim, and I don't think this would be the case if there wasn't a way around this...... Please help!

Amp models, like real amps, only have so much headroom, so at some point boosting the input level just results in more saturation, and like you said, compression. I’d be surprised if the volume is actually lower, but if it’s highly compressed, it can certainly sound lower. 
 

But just to be clear, you’re talking about running physical pedals in front of the Stomp, right? If you’re really hitting the input hard, you could be clipping it. Have you tried setting the Stomp’s input to line level? Also, it sound like you’re running the Stomp in front of real amp, and running an amp model into an amp isn’t probably the best thing either… You have a lot of cascading gain going on here - kind of compression on compression. So it could be that everything is just being pushed too hard and you’re just squashing everything.

[cmaness94]

@phil_m Thank you for the response! Yes, physical pedals.

 

I only ran the stomp into the amp in this scenario to check if it was my perception being off due to the headphones - it wasn't. I typically will turn off the amp block if I am running into an actual amp- in this scenario the problem no longer persists as stated before. I will try to set the input to line, that is a good idea. 

Is there a way to "see" if the input is clipping? I thought that the input dot on the screen would turn red. Also, if the input was clipping wouldn't this happen whether or not the amp block is engaged or not?

 

I thought about the "amp's" headroom idea. I set the amp block totally clean- dialed back the MV, channel volume, and gain - the same thing still happened.

I will try it with a few other amp models, maybe even some of the pre amp models to, to see if the same thing happens. 

 

Just to be crystal clear. I am not talking about this only happening at high gain settings, this is any gain I throw in front of it. vol. on 1 or 10, no change in perceived volume- in headphones or in front of an amp with the amp block on (again not how I would typically use it).

 

 

 

[phil_m]

On 4/28/2022 at 2:22 PM, cmaness94 said:

@phil_m Thank you for the response! Yes, physical pedals.

 

I only ran the stomp into the amp in this scenario to check if it was my perception being off due to the headphones - it wasn't. I typically will turn off the amp block if I am running into an actual amp- in this scenario the problem no longer persists as stated before. I will try to set the input to line, that is a good idea. 

Is there a way to "see" if the input is clipping? I thought that the input dot on the screen would turn red. Also, if the input was clipping wouldn't this happen whether or not the amp block is engaged or not?

 

I thought about the "amp's" headroom idea. I set the amp block totally clean- dialed back the MV, channel volume, and gain - the same thing still happened.

I will try it with a few other amp models, maybe even some of the pre amp models to, to see if the same thing happens. 

 

Just to be crystal clear. I am not talking about this only happening at high gain settings, this is any gain I throw in front of it. vol. on 1 or 10, no change in perceived volume- in headphones or in front of an amp with the amp block on (again not how I would typically use it).

 

 

 

If you’re clipping the Stomp’s input, yes, the input block would be turning red. So it’s more likely you’re pushing the input of the amp model too hard.

 

I use external drive pedals with my Stomp XL, and it sounds fine. They boost the volume of the amp models in a very natural way. So it might just be the way the Orange model is reacting.

[cmaness94]

@phil_m It must be the way the OR80 sim compresses, I switched to the preamp block instead (same settings) and the issue was resolved. Unfortunately the preamp and amp blocks on this model do not sound very similar- however I was able to achieve an extremely similar sound with the JTM preamp block as the OR80 amp block. Thanks for your suggestions! I also reduced the input impedance, which made it react a little more "naturally"  under my fingers. I am a much happier camper now. 

[djhblues]

I have the same issue, also new to the Stomp- can you clarify the pre-amp block fix? I am running drives before the stomp, and into clean amps. Should I remove the amp models entirely ? Thanks for all the input on this.