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sumit_helix

My Clean& overdrive tones are very thin

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Hi Everyone,

 

I have been in search of a juicy, thick clean and overdrive tone, something which i can see Boss GT1000 and Fractal FX are phenomenally capable of, whereas, I have not been able to get there.

 

When I say thick clean & overdrive tone, i mean the high notes are ringing with lots of juice, whether clean or in overdrive/distortion.

Here are some examples -

 

For overdrive/distortion -

 

 

Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

 

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What guitar are you using (looks like a Strat in your avatar, but can't really tell), what are you monitoring through and please post the patch(es) you are using. Otherwise very difficult to know what is going on... :-)

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There’s probably lots of little adjustments you can make rather than anything big .. cleanish boost in front of amp (kinky boost?) Use a ribbon mic, hi/lo cuts, studio compressor near end of chain (maybe at around 50% mix works better for me) Pickup height adjustment on guitar ?  

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Did not gel with that LW cover... :-(

 

But on a positive note, you could try this patch to get you in the zone. Neck pickup may work best, and ride the guitar volume pot for clean - > OD.

 

 

Fender glassy.hlx

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For me,  the EQ functions are the most powerful way to get to the tone I am seeking. In the Helix world I prefer the Simple EQ .  Bass, treble, and sweep-able mid. The secret is the mid. To thicken it up I set the mid gain up and sweep the frequency  to find the one I'm looking for. Then adjust it down as needed. Depending on the pickup I'm using on my Tele this can be in the range of 300 to 1200HZ. 1000HZ is a good starting point. To thin it out do the opposite. Then I adjust the bass and treble. To me, a "clean" tone still requires some harmonic distortion to fill it out and add sustain.  If  using an amp model I set the gain up to thicken it. Or add a "transparent"  overdrive like the KWB or TeeMa. I have found that another way to thicken up a clean tone is to put an overdrive on path B and blend it in as needed. Trying to get that "edge of breakup"  tone.  Compressors can add sustain and many like to use them but I personally don't like them at least playing live. I would rather get the sustain and natural compression by driving the gain on the amp  or overdrive. For more add gain. Sometimes just the right overdrive will get you there. Virtually any overdrive will add midrange as well but especially the Tube Screamer variations.

 

The tone in the example sound to me really thinned out in the midrange     And probably a Strat and not my Tele. I would use the  EQ to get me there. And this is where I may use the compressor for sustain. If I were playing that live I would still push the gain to fatten it up.

 

This is just my approach and probably stuff you already know.  I would certainly like to know how others do it.

 

 

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i see no reason not to use the exact appoach you would with the actual devices being modelled...

I listened to the example in the videos and heard nothing particularly "lush"...just a pretty normal clean tone with a few fx shoved on - nothing special or difficult to get with Helix. Same with the distorted tones.  very generic (not bad - I quite like them  - but nothing hard to achieve with any of the mid gain amps and an overdive pedal...).  I reckon I could copy those tones without even switching the monitors on.

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You may want to mention what unit you are using, what you are monitoring your tones through (FRFR, "real amp" etc...), instruments you are playing, etc...

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I would like to thank you all immensely for your replies and suggestions.

 

I essentially use the following - 

1. Mexican strat ( as shown in my Avatar) for my cleans.

2. Ibanez SA32 EX with EMG 81/85 for my overdrive/distortions.

Helix Floor version -  2.80.

Output device -  JBL 306P studio Monitors connected to helix directly via XLR cables.

 

Attached is an example patch I created recently for an Indian song.

 

A little background about me :

I had a Boss GT100 before this and several multi effects even before that,  as buying Amps and pedals in India is not really affordable . I was happy with GT100 for cleans but GT100 is not capable of producing any decent crunchy/lead/distortion tones. So I sold it off and after lot of review bought Helix. I have been extremely satisfied with Helix since the first day. No complain about the unit. I have always got awesome crunchy/distortion/lead tones (until recently when i started searching in youtube and found Fractal units producing the kind of tones that made me stop at) from helix, but cleans I have never been that happy. And I know it is my fault and not of Helix. Therefore looking forward to get suggestions.

 

Therefore what I am precisely looking for is the below - 

1. Based on the example videos of my first post, what combination of Amps + stock cabs/IRs + pedals that i should use to achieve my desired tones (cleans and dirty). Though it is subjective i agree, but from the example videos you can understand what I am trying to achieve.

2. How us EQ to add an optimum thickness (to the highs without colouring the cleans (i do not usually prefer too much of chorus/flanger to thicken the tone, however, i end up using them since I never found a better way to do it without using them)

3. Usage of compressor pedal (at the beginning of the chain or before delay or right in the end), though i usually use it at the beginning but never felt completely happy with its use.

4. Any other thing that you would like to suggest.

 

Thanks everyone

 

Regards

Sumit Mazumdar

 

Sundori Komola.hlx

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On 3/1/2020 at 10:31 PM, BBD_123 said:

What guitar are you using (looks like a Strat in your avatar, but can't really tell), what are you monitoring through and please post the patch(es) you are using. Otherwise very difficult to know what is going on... :-)

 

On 3/2/2020 at 1:48 AM, BBD_123 said:

Did not gel with that LW cover... :-(

 

But on a positive note, you could try this patch to get you in the zone. Neck pickup may work best, and ride the guitar volume pot for clean - > OD.

 

 

Fender glassy.hlx 9.51 kB · 6 downloads

 

Thanks a lot BBD_123 for your tone. I will sure listen to it and will share my thoughts.

 

Also, please refer to my recent post where I mentioned about my current line up/usage and what i am looking for.

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On 3/2/2020 at 9:17 AM, lawrence_Arps said:

i see no reason not to use the exact appoach you would with the actual devices being modelled...

I listened to the example in the videos and heard nothing particularly "lush"...just a pretty normal clean tone with a few fx shoved on - nothing special or difficult to get with Helix. Same with the distorted tones.  very generic (not bad - I quite like them  - but nothing hard to achieve with any of the mid gain amps and an overdive pedal...).  I reckon I could copy those tones without even switching the monitors on.

 

On 3/3/2020 at 6:27 PM, jbuhajla said:

You may want to mention what unit you are using, what you are monitoring your tones through (FRFR, "real amp" etc...), instruments you are playing, etc...

 

Thanks Lawrence_Arps -  Would you be able to share one of your patches that are close enough to the first video (LW cover by Marco canton)? So I can understand your signal chain and your idea behind it. That may help me correcting my chain and parameters.

 

Thanks Jbujajla -  Please refer to my today's post above, where I furnished info as per what you asked, that way you to understand my setup and kindly suggest accordingly.

 

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On 3/11/2020 at 6:37 AM, sumit_helix said:

 

 

Thanks Lawrence_Arps -  Would you be able to share one of your patches that are close enough to the first video (LW cover by Marco canton)? So I can understand your signal chain and your idea behind it. That may help me correcting my chain and parameters.

 

Thanks Jbujajla -  Please refer to my today's post above, where I furnished info as per what you asked, that way you to understand my setup and kindly suggest accordingly.

 

so I took a new preset

.Note - Pad is on.


Added a distortion to first block  - chose the OCD.stock settings. 
Added Brit Plexi Jump.to second plack..stock settings, ..
.added the seventies chorus to third block ...took the mix down to 30%,
added vintage delay to fourth block..took mix down to 25%
Added plate reverb to fifth block... - stock settings

 

sounds fine to me.....

 

 

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If you are looking to achieve your "ideal" clean and overdrive tones with a single preset, using a strat (stock PUs?) and Ibanez (with active EMGs)?

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