FX Loop Noise - still useful or DOA?

[themetallikid]

So I've been trying to get along with the new Drop and Freqout pedals.  My initial plan was to put them each in a loop (talkbox too, but still on its way here) and then utilize the loops via Snapshots to turn them on/off on my appropriate song specific presets and on my lead snapshots (for the freqout).  

 

However, the noise is pretty unbearable.  I have both at the beginning of my chain, followed by a Noise Gate.  I have the input gate set to about -48db and the additional noise gate right after the FX Loops set to about -40db.  Depending on the gain in the preset it works well, or I still get some hiss/feedback sounds at the end of palm mutes.  If I turn up the gates to get rid of the noise its killing my sustain.  

 

I feel like I'm going to return these pedals, but wanted to give them one last try.  I've moved the Freqout to the bottom next to the Helix..however I dont utilize it enough to really have it take up that space all the time.  

 

So...a few questions..

 

1) the Hard Gate effect seems to be more aggressive than the Noise Gate.  What is the difference?  

2) those that are using the loops, what are you doing to eliminate the noise the loops create?

3) While my talkbox could be run up front, it again loses my Snapshot/Loop scenario, is it the sends or the returns that are noisy?   I feel like all that noise going into the talkbox would be a nightmare.

 

I'm still into the pedalboard I bought and will utilize that regardless, just disappointed the pedals so far have not worked out like I wanted.  

[phil_m]

When I had the Freqout, I had it in the Helix's loop, and I didn't find it overly noisy. But the amount of noise you get from the loops is directly related to what you have after the loops in the signal chain. Are you using a high gain amp model?

[C4TH]

I use an HX effects, but hopefully my input will still be relevant. 
 

I’ve seen others comment that the loop can cause noise. But I must say, that while it creates a little bit of noise when I use it, it doesn’t sound as bad as what you’re getting. Mines very minor and certainly doesn’t stand out at stage volume, or in a band mix.

 

I tried using the Drop in the fx loop, but it seemed that it added too much latency. I now run it into the front end of the HX, but have it controlled by a midi Controlled pedal looper, so it automatically turns on for my preferred preset. While also not using up a block.

 

I’ve never had to use a noise gate, but have read the noise gate can suck tone. The hard gate doesn’t seem to impact the tone as much, going by what I’ve read.

[themetallikid]

yeah to be clear, the pedals arent noisy.  When I tried them in front of the Helix they were great.  But I want the control via snapshots so I'd prefer the loops.  There are some presets (I play 80's/90's rock) that are higher gain.  I've tried moving the noise gate in the chain to help.  In the regular presets I could put it after the drive that is boosting the amp and it would clean it up, but putting it there with the Loop Engaged is impossibly noisy.  So it has to go after the loop(s).  

 

I just dont think its going to work the way I want with snapshots/loops.  The gates have to be set too extreme to keep it silent/clean vs keeping any sustain.  And once the gate opens, even with 10ms close time it still leaves some hiss/feedback before it closes.  Not the good feedback either.  Thats really only on my balls out presets, but I want a solution for all involved.  

 

 

[themetallikid]

Yeah I seemed to like it in front as well better than the loop for latency.  Its not horrible, but something I can feel and notice.  My head can't let go of trying to be efficient with the setup which is why i'm fixated on the snapshots/loops idea...but if it has to all be pre-Helix then fine.  

 

In regards to my talkbox...is the noise on the return or the send?  Anyone know that?  I'm picturing the Loop sending to the talkbox, but not utilizing a return cable as its not necessary really. 

[C4TH]

Sorry, not sure about the talk box.

But I agree, the latency is not awful, but noticeable to the player. 
I understand what you’re saying regarding utilising your current set up, and I tried to do the same with my HX, which has fewer loops than the Helix I believe. But now I use the HX loops for pedals that I want in the FX loop of my amp, and then run pedals like the Drop, etc into my Morningstar ML5, which goes into the front end. Really does open up the possibilities, but I get what mean regarding your current setup.

[phil_m]

2 minutes ago, C4TH said:

But I agree, the latency is not awful, but noticeable to the player. 

 

The Helix's loops add about 1.5ms of latency... Of course, the Digitech pedals themselves are digital, so there's latency for those as well. I personally didn't notice the additional latency with the Freqout in the loop, but everything is cumulative. If you have other latency-adding things in the chain, it all adds up.

[themetallikid]

yeah my idea behind getting the Drop (and the Freqout to help with feedback on the misaligned pitches live) was to build the loops into the presets I build specifically for songs.  So as we shift from E to Eb and back to E...I'd be able to just call up the next preset while addressing the crowd and the other guys are swapping guitars.  

 

Granted, stomping a button to the right of my board isnt a deal breaker, its just not how I wanted to use it and knowing me I'd forget to turn it on/off at some point.  lol.   

 

 

[C4TH]

Yeah, that’s exactly why I got the ML5 looper. Because I forgot to turn it on/off a few times, lol. 

[themetallikid]

I ended up returning both pedals.  Not what I wanted to do, but if I'm not 100% happy, which is the point of this rig setup...I'm not gonna keep stuff.  I've been fine up til now....I'll be fine going forward.  

 

I ended up with the return money getting cables, a powered wedge for acoustic shows (monitor for myself), a tablet holder for mic stand, and a new mic stand for my new board (has a mic stand bracket built into it.  

 

Appreciate the conversation but I dont want to compromise what i've built so far tone wise....and I'm the happiest I've been in a long time.  

[C4TH]

7 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

The Helix's loops add about 1.5ms of latency... Of course, the Digitech pedals themselves are digital, so there's latency for those as well. I personally didn't notice the additional latency with the Freqout in the loop, but everything is cumulative. If you have other latency-adding things in the chain, it all adds up.

I agree. I never notice it with my other pedals in the HX loops. The loops are very good imo. I meant more with the Digitech Drop, as it’s obviously a little more noticeable with a pedal like that.