Poll about clean tones of HX Somp (with audio clips)

[Artuurs]

 

Hey, guys, would like to hear your thoughts! 

I’m currently working on a track for project, which requires some guitar sounds that is very common in disco/funk records (think of Nile Rodgers, Curtis Mayfield, Prince maybe). 

So far I've had great success to get some lovely distorted/effected tones out of Hx stomp, but when it comes to clean tone for rhythm guitar, it gets a bit tricky. 
For me the the challenge is to find most "transparent" amp and cab combo setting so it doesn't overdrive and "break" tone too much. I know, that one of the tricks that is actually used by the artists mentioned above is to record just DI, without a cab, but this kind of sound in my case is a bit too dry and sterile (most probably because I don't have analogue API Channel Strip :) and I'd also like to keep the opportunity to achieve similar sound when playing live with HX, if it'll be needed later.
Anyway, here is the 5 different setting audio clips with two guitar lines playing together.  
 

Guitar used: Fender Stratocaster Player series, pickup position: middle + neck

Tell me what you think. I know, the right answer would be “trust your ears”, but I’d really like to hear opinions and recommendations as I’m new to stombox world and there is definitely room for improvement.

 

1) DI, without Amp and Cab

2) Amp: Us Double Vib, Cab: IR OH 412 MRBW MED OH1-05  (Ownhammers 1971 Marshall 1960B)

3) Amp: Us Deluxe Vib, Cab: 1x12 US Deluxe 

4) Amp: Jazz Rivet 120, Cab: IR 1960-G12M25-SM57-CapEdge45-6in ( Redwirez Marshall 160A)

5) Amp: Jazz Rivet 120, Cab: IR 1960-G12M25-SM57-CapEdge45-6in ( Redwirez Marshall 160A) with Cab Mix being 35% 

 

 

Thanks!

 

[reginaldStjohn]

They all sound fine to me. It really depends on what you are going for or how you want to use them. What kind of input do you want?

[rvroberts]

As you mention analog mic pres, you probably need to know - or maybe you do? - that the old desks when used with guitar direct, were generally driven pretty hard - to get the harmonic overtones you might otherwise associate with a valve amp.  So if you were to isolate those tracks, they would not have been any more (probably less) clean than what you are showing here.  I think you are obsessing in the wrong territory, it's more about how the sound sits in the mix.  There is not one sound here - varying reverb levels and types will be just as important and obviously EQ that is totally track dependant.  Then you end up with final mastering tricks from compression (you need compression somewhere in that chain even if it's post amp and mic) through to spacial trickery and master EQ - it's layer upon layer of the art of recording - it's not all about the "perfect" sound at the source.  Doesn't exist because you have to modify it in the context of the whole.

[waymda]

Have you considered the mic-pre, or any of the amps pre's only with comp and reverb after?

 

And or a mix of the above and any of the sounds you've used to create the right 'layers' as per rv roberts?

[codamedia]

22 hours ago, Artuurs said:

I’m currently working on a track for project, which requires some guitar sounds that is very common in disco/funk records (think of Nile Rodgers, Curtis Mayfield, Prince maybe). 

 

Mic Studio Tube Pre > LA Studio Comp

Those two should get you really close, really fast!

(note: the Studio tube pre is found under "Preamp > Mic ")

 

I would throw a parametric EQ before or after the comp... and use that to shape the tone as required, but the initial two blocks should provide the character/color you are looking for. 

 

[Artuurs]

On 3/15/2020 at 1:01 AM, rvroberts said:

As you mention analog mic pres, you probably need to know - or maybe you do? - that the old desks when used with guitar direct, were generally driven pretty hard - to get the harmonic overtones you might otherwise associate with a valve amp.  So if you were to isolate those tracks, they would not have been any more (probably less) clean than what you are showing here.  I think you are obsessing in the wrong territory, it's more about how the sound sits in the mix.  There is not one sound here - varying reverb levels and types will be just as important and obviously EQ that is totally track dependant.  Then you end up with final mastering tricks from compression (you need compression somewhere in that chain even if it's post amp and mic) through to spacial trickery and master EQ - it's layer upon layer of the art of recording - it's not all about the "perfect" sound at the source.  Doesn't exist because you have to modify it in the context of the whole.

Totally agree about post processing as a crucial part for the tone, but I always preferred to start with good input source on a first and rely on post processing after it, not the other way around. IMHO, instruments should sound good (or bad, depending on genre :) also in solo mode. There might be parts in a songs, where only guitar is audible (intros, for example) so it is not just about the fact how it sits in the mix together with other instruments. Btw, examples I provided already has a light compression and even a reverb applied on a guitar sound. I'm just curious to hear what's the tricks for amp+cab settings of HX Stomp to get best results for clean rhythm guitar sounds. Cabs tend to make a guitar sound to be a bit "boxy" and in a conjunction with Amp signal gets too "hot" for that quacky Strat tone I'm after. Just listen if you have a time to this song by INXS as an example. 

So far I have noticed that lovering volume on a guitar and turning IR Cabs mix not more than 35% does the job, but still... not quite there yet

[Artuurs]

On 3/15/2020 at 3:11 PM, codamedia said:

 

Mic Studio Tube Pre > LA Studio Comp

Those two should get you really close, really fast!

(note: the Studio tube pre is found under "Preamp > Mic ")

 

I would throw a parametric EQ before or after the comp... and use that to shape the tone as required, but the initial two blocks should provide the character/color you are looking for. 

 

Very cool tip, thanks! Didn't even notice that there is Mic Preamp, which is actually very good. And yes, I tend to lean more towards DI sound. I think I should skip the idea, that it is possible to get the tone I imagined with Amp and Cab settings, although there is a way I mentioned in a comment above - by turning Amp drive to zero and mixing Cab IR to just a few %  

[rvroberts]

I see what you are trying to do, and you can bet that's Nile Rodgers is direct into the desk.

This would quiet probably have been a Neve desk (analogue obviously) as they were all the rage in studios then.  Not a valve preamp though I think.

 Everyone loved the Neves, but they were solid state by then.

What I hear very much is his classic strat (the hit maker) you hear that even in messy live mixes like this 

 

So the mic preamp might do it for you, or as you were experimenting anyhow, anything that just adds a touch of overtone to an otherwise totally clean Strat on the neck pickup by the looks of this. Still, that part on the original sits so well in the track...........!