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Holy Sh*t! People Are Ragin' Up In Here!


RipperShred
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I get why, personally. Amplifi was not the reinvention we "pro-thusiasts" (got that term from another thread, and I like it) were hoping for. But a L6 rep/affiliate/somebody-in-the-know did say over on the TGP forum ( I know it's not THIS forum, but at least it's A forum, and it was SOMETHING) that we "Pro guitarists are not forgotten" and we just need to "wait".

 

I was ready to jump ship and buy a Kemper... Until they jacked the price by 450 bucks up to 2229 at my local Long&McQuade literally OVERNIGHT. Now my HD Pro doesn't look so bad. Heck, it looks real good. And truth be told there's only like two amp models that it's missing that I give a rat's @ss about anyways, and who knows, maybe that'll be in this update/new-box/whatever is coming down the line.

 

Considering they said to "wait", I'm thinking summer NAMM they're going to drop HD V3.0 or something. It'll be about 2yrs since the last meaningful update they did, which from what I can recall, is about the amount of time it took between such an update on either the XT or X3 (someone who's keeping track or knows of the top of their heads will clarify, and/or correct me if need be.)

 

I'm getting killer tones out of it, and it's inspiring to play. L6 said when they introduced the revised "X" versions that they weren't done with the platform, so I'm going to sit back, enjoy what I got, and when they're ready to drop whatever goodness they're going to drop, I'll be there with an open mind.

 

With the instant-gratification culture we're living in where there's a new I-whatever dropping every other Tuesday, and software/OS updates every other Wednesday after that, I get how we're all up-in-arms towards L6. And also I admit no one is more guilty of this entitlement-insanity than I am! but the markets change, and business models change, etc. etc.

 

I think there's at least one more big drop coming, so we should just sit tight, enjoy what we got in the mean time, and just all 'round chill the f*ck out! hahaha!

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Well as I've already said in another thread some time ago, I wanted to know what's the time gap between the penultimate firmware and the last one of the "first generation" PODs and what I've found out is:

 

1) POD XT: Two years between the two

 

2) POD X3: One year between the two

 

Maybe this time is a 3 years wait? Who knows...

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......

But I would still like someone to explain the no power button thing...I gotta know, lol.

That's easy.

 

1-It's actually safer for the unit to operate without a power button because when you're not using it, it's unplugged so in case there's a lightning storm you don't have to worry about unplugging it since it's already unplugged, and most surge protectors aren't 100%.

 

2-One less additional part that can fail. Power switch is more prone to failure than the current way it works by plugging the adapter. In the current scenario the adapter has most of the risk of failure, and that's easier than having to fix a power switch and also cheaper as you don't have to take your pod to a service center.

 

3-Based on 1 and two it seems that a power switch isn't essential; so whenever it's possible to save on cost on non essential parts, the cost savings can mean a more affordable product for the consumer. Using this approach allowed line 6 to provide an all in one solution that's so far unmatched by anything except if you're willing to spend 10 times more. An AXE II with a controller is around 4 thousand dollars! A pod HD500 for a working musician is heaven sent at 300- to 400 hundred dollars used and it actually has very comparable tones to the AXE ii and Kemper. Don't let the cork sniffers tell you any different. POD HD is good enough for Steve Howe from YES to recreate all of his sounds so it really is good enough for anyone else to get their  at a fraction of the cost. Go LINE 6.

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Well as I've already said in another thread some time ago, I wanted to know what's the time gap between the penultimate firmware and the last one of the "first generation" PODs and what I've found out is:

 

1) POD XT: Two years between the two

 

2) POD X3: One year between the two

 

Maybe this time is a 3 years wait? Who knows...

 

Really, though, the XT and the X3 are the same generation. The X3 simply put all the XT models, including everything from all the model packs, into one package. There were a few more additions. They added some more effects to the X3 line that the XT never saw, and if I remember correctly a few more amps. And also consider the fact that the XT/X3 models are still being used in current products such as POD Farm and Amplifi. I wouldn't be too worried about Line 6 dropping the HD format. If anything, their history shows that they get as much out of their R&D as they can.

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Doesn't bother me that the HD doesn't have a power switch.  I use a power strip to power my stuff and it has a switch.

 

It's kind of funny - the M13 does have a power switch, but I never use it. I just leave it on all the time. I actually tend to leave my pedalboard powered up all the time when it's at my house. It's just easier. These pedals draw so little in the way of energy, that it probably costs cents a month to leave it plugged in. I just find I'm more apt to use it if I leave it plugged in.

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Really, though, the XT and the X3 are the same generation. The X3 simply put all the XT models, including everything from all the model packs, into one package. There were a few more additions. They added some more effects to the X3 line that the XT never saw, and if I remember correctly a few more amps. And also consider the fact that the XT/X3 models are still being used in current products such as POD Farm and Amplifi. I wouldn't be too worried about Line 6 dropping the HD format. If anything, their history shows that they get as much out of their R&D as they can.

I agree totally

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That's easy.

 

1-It's actually safer for the unit to operate without a power button because when you're not using it, it's unplugged so in case there's a lightning storm you don't have to worry about unplugging it since it's already unplugged, and most surge protectors aren't 100%.

 

2-One less additional part that can fail. Power switch is more prone to failure than the current way it works by plugging the adapter. In the current scenario the adapter has most of the risk of failure, and that's easier than having to fix a power switch and also cheaper as you don't have to take your pod to a service center.

 

3-Based on 1 and two it seems that a power switch isn't essential; so whenever it's possible to save on cost on non essential parts, the cost savings can mean a more affordable product for the consumer. Using this approach allowed line 6 to provide an all in one solution that's so far unmatched by anything except if you're willing to spend 10 times more. An AXE II with a controller is around 4 thousand dollars! A pod HD500 for a working musician is heaven sent at 300- to 400 hundred dollars used and it actually has very comparable tones to the AXE ii and Kemper. Don't let the cork sniffers tell you any different. POD HD is good enough for Steve Howe from YES to recreate all of his sounds so it really is good enough for anyone else to get their  at a fraction of the cost. Go LINE 6.

 

1) Safety? This being the pathetically litigious society that it is, if safety were a concern, nothing would have power buttons. I've purchased half a dozen other units from Line 6 over the years...they all have power buttons. And, I've been walking the earth since before Rush's first album...still waiting for ANYTHING electronic to be destroyed by a lightning induced power surge...or any other power surge for that matter. Do you really run around the house unplugging everything at the first clap of thunder? By the time you're done, it will probably have stopped raining. I just don't see this as having been a big topic of discussion amongst the engineers over at Line 6...and if it was, then they need to switch to decaf. "It can't HAVE a power switch, Bob!!! WHAT ABOUT THE LIGHTNING?!?!?!"

 

2) Maybe I'm lazy, but I really don't want to have to reach behind all the gear to pull the plug from the wall when I'm done playing. It's just a pain in the a**. And if we're gonna talk about risk of part failure, if you're pulling the plug from the back of the unit instead of removing the wall wart from the outlet, then I can easily see the solder connections for the jack becoming loose LONG before a simple rocker switch would fail...they design those things to move. And for what it's worth, after 25+ years of buying gear, and countless things needing repair (including one amp head many years ago that actually started to smoke onstage, lol) I still await with bated breath, my first power switch failure.

 

3) Cost savings? How much cost savings could they possibly pass on to us from a 1/2 cent piece of Chinese plastic? Are you telling me that you honestly think the Axe II is 4 grand because it has a power button? Or that it would cost you $500 next month if they started cranking them out without one?

 

Nor do I listen to the "cork sniffers" (I'm a beer guy)...in fact, I never said I didn't like the 500X. Quite the opposite, I think it's well worth the asking price and produces some amazing tones. I simply found it odd that after buying gear for more than half my life, this unit is the first thing I've ever owned that didn't have a simple way to turn it on and off from either the front or back panel. So in that respect, the 500X is most certainly the odd man out. Is it s deal breaker? No...but if someone had bet me $50 that I couldn't guess what simple feature was missing from this unit before I opened the box, "power switch" would have been the absolute LAST thing that I'd have thought of.

 

And this is just me... but nothing about Steve Howe's playing ever gave me goose bumps, but to each his own, ;) .

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.... I simply found it odd that after buying gear for more than half my life, this unit is the first thing I've ever owned that didn't have a simple way to turn it on and off from either the front or back panel.

 

And this is just me... but nothing about Steve Howe's playing ever gave me goose bumps, but to each his own, ;) .

Well you must have not bought many floor pedals or floor MultiFX because most of them don't have a power switch and it's a smart design for floor pedals not to have a power switch.

 

I'm not a fan of Steve Howe but he's a well rounded musician and guitar player, I also I don't use "Goose bumps" as the only yard stick to measure how good the music is. ;)

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Well you must have not bought many floor pedals or floor MultiFX because most of them don't have a power switch and it's a smart design for floor pedals not to have a power switch.

 

I'm not a fan of Steve Howe but he's a well rounded musician and guitar player, I also I don't use "Goose bumps" as the only yard stick to measure how good the music is. ;)

 

Meet the Digitech GNX1...and it's power button. A floor pedal fx unit. Not the only other one I've owned, but the only one I still have with which to provide photo evidence. Certainly not the finest piece of gear ever, but decent for it's price which I doubt was much more than $250 or so a few years ago.

 

This thing had a big brother with a few more footswitches...it had a power button too. And these ain't the only ones in the universe. I fail to see anything "not smart" about the design.

 

 

 

post-1838810-0-46890200-1391281574_thumb.jpg

 

 

post-1838810-0-87387100-1391281587_thumb.jpg

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One thing about Steve Howe using a HD 500 and a Variax.

He does indeed use it for a brief period during his live show and it sounds okay but not nearly as good as

his other stuff during the show.

He uses it for convience, not because it gives him the best sound.

I doubt he will be selling any of his real guitars anytime soon and replace them with Variax models.

And I own and like my Variax but we need to keep things in perspective when we talk about who's using what.

I for one use the Variax for open tunings for the live show.

It works but doesn't sound as good as my real guitars when I open tune them.

I use it for the convience of not carrying so many guitars to the live gigs.

In the studio the Variax spends it's time in the case and so does the HD 500.

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One thing about Steve Howe using a HD 500 and a Variax.

He does indeed use it for a brief period during his live show and it sounds okay but not nearly as good as

his other stuff during the show.

He uses it for convience, not because it gives him the best sound.

 

.....

 

If anyone is using a modeler live for anything other than convenience, then they clearly don't understand what modeling is. That applies also to  Kemper and AXe II and every modeler under the sun. 

They all model the sound of a miced amp and they all are in reality recording devices that players use as a compromise for Live purposes. I'm not going to get into the difference between the sound of a miced amp with sm57, u87 etc etc and the sound of a real amp heard by human ear.

 

Until a mic can model the human ear or modeling can model how  the human ear hears a real amp, even a solid state amp, is far superior to a mere interpretation of an sm57. But we all like convenience and that's why we use modeling. You don't have to spend 2k to get the sound of $500 fender amp if that's what you want, you buy the $500 amp, and guess what:  it would be superior to any modeler under the sun for the simple fact that the modeler is aiming for the sound you hear on the CD, compressed and lifeless compared to the sound of a real amp as heard by the human ear.

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But if you're going for the $1500 Marshall amp sound, with a handful of effects for about another $700, the PODHD is a great deal.  Then throw in the convenience factor and, well, here we are.  Oh and I can still hit a button and imitate the $500 Fender amp too.

 

Now if I was touring all over the world, playing huge venues, and flying on my personal jet, would I use the PODHD or any modeler ?  Noooooooooo.  I would have my sound engineer and guitar tech build me the perfect sound using all the best gear and my roadies lug it around every where I went.  Oh darn it, I woke up from this dream again...lol

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Well the way I see it is when you use real amp head or Pre-amp with power amp you will settle on real cab and in general once you find a cab that sound goods, it's rarely ever changed. That's how amp manufacturers end up choosing the right speaker. According to Cliff from Fractal: the tone is almost 85% from the speaker. So yes I agree pre amp model can sound great with the right power amp and cabinet and for this Speaker simulation is defeated. I personally think that's the best sound of a modeler live, but for that kind of setup a marshall JMP-1,  an ADA MP-1 or Sans amp  PSA-1 will beat any modeler senseless including AXE and Kemper. Playing in cover bands and in Churches modelers With FRFR  or Direct to FOH will work great though and that's what the manufacturers originally intended them to be used.

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Dean-o, I strongly disagree with the "beat any modeler senseless" comment. Once you introduce a great, or even a good, poweramp and a good/great 4x12 cabinet, and then push both those components you wouldn't be able to perceive the difference between the modeled preamp and an analog one. The tube power amp distortion, coupled with the speaker distortion smooths out the faint digital aliasing to the point where it's a non-issue.

 

Anyone who says they could tell with definitive certainty that they could tell a real JMP-1 preamp from a modeled one in an Axe II, when they're both running through a Marshall mono-bloc 9200 crankin' into a 1960A cab blazin'-loud is either a liar, or a computer with a built-in audio spectrograph in a rubber human suit. :P 

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You right ripper I shouldn't have said senseless because I happen to believe Mr. Cliff Chase, from Fractal the Maker of AXE FX, when he said that tone is almost 85 percent from the speakers. Using a real 4X12 cabinet for hard Rock and Heavy metal Live is not something that can be approximated by an impulse response. I have never yet ever heard even a remotely close approximation to the real oomph of a 4X12 from any modeler or impulse response. For using impulse responses, to my ears the sound of 1X12, 1x10 , or 1x8 or even 1x6 seem to be generally superior. That actually is supported by real world facts as 4x12s are not really good for studio recording and are very difficult to record but sound magnificent live.

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 That actually is supported by real world facts as 4x12s are not really good for studio recording and are very difficult to record but sound magnificent live.

I tend to use more small combos for recording but I do have a 4x12 Marshall cabinet loaded with Celestion (Vox) speakers and that cabinet sounds great in the studio - awesome on tape.

I think the key is that those speakers are low watt speakers (15 to 25 watt each) not the 75 watt speakers that come in the standard newer Marshall cabinets - a $250 speaker vs a $65 speaker - a world of difference.

The green backs and vintage 30 Celestions record great as well in those 4X12 Marshall cabinets.

I even plug my 65 Deluxe or my Bassman head into that cabinet for recording a lot of times when I want a more in your face punchy Fender sound.

Some of those awesome Pete Towneshend tones on the early recordings were a Fender head through a Marshall 4x12 cabinet - with low watt Celestions.

So I have to disagree with you on that point.

Your other points are pretty much dead on.

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If anyone is using a modeler live for anything other than convenience, then they clearly don't understand what modeling is. That applies also to Kemper and AXe II and every modeler under the sun.

They all model the sound of a miced amp and they all are in reality recording devices that players use as a compromise for Live purposes. I'm not going to get into the difference between the sound of a miced amp with sm57, u87 etc etc and the sound of a real amp heard by human ear.

 

Until a mic can model the human ear or modeling can model how the human ear hears a real amp, even a solid state amp, is far superior to a mere interpretation of an sm57. But we all like convenience and that's why we use modeling. You don't have to spend 2k to get the sound of $500 fender amp if that's what you want, you buy the $500 amp, and guess what: it would be superior to any modeler under the sun for the simple fact that the modeler is aiming for the sound you hear on the CD, compressed and lifeless compared to the sound of a real amp as heard by the human ear.

Totally agree with this. Modeling is fun to play with, and in a cover band situation or whoever you want a ton of different sounds available instantly they are great. I get that.

 

But I have some of the amps that are modeled in my HD500 and they sound nothing alike. The best I could say is that capture the spirit of the amp at times. The same goes for the Variax models. I have quality USA made Strats and Teles and again, no comparison.

 

I talked at some length with John McFee of the Doobie Brothers about his use of a Variax 700 and a POD X3, and he said he uses it due to the sheer number of sounds he had to cover for their catalog. The man plays every damn instrument you can think of, largely electric, acoustic, slide, pedal steel and fiddle and he had it all happening through the POD, he said "so the bus could actually hold the band" lol. Cool guy all around, but it demonstrates the pragmatic approach he has given his world. I'm betting he has some primo gear back at the ranch in California, but I didn't ask. Should have lol...

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I'm sure to catch a flame or two for this, but I think the idea that modelers are fine for recording but not live is somewhat illogical. Either way, most of the time it's going through a board and speakers before the audience hears it. So how is one different than the other? If anything it's even more valuable in a live setting where there are more inconsistencies, more ambient noise, and often less quality in the mic, pre and board.

 

I use the Pod HD exclusively these days, direct into the board, whether on concert stages or for club dates. I get a perfectly consistent sound everywhere, and I don't miss carrying a heavy rack of Mesa Boogie iron and fx units like I used to!

 

I can understand if some players miss the moving air of a big amp, and I don't play super loud styles, but if you can get used to hearing yourself at a lower volume, the advantages are many. IMHO.

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