Which Headphone Amp for Helix LT?

[SteeBoon]

Hey Everyone,

 

So now that we're temporarily unemployed/on lockdown due to the Heineken Flu, I finally have some time to delve into my Line6 Helix LT that I've been neglecting for half a year.

I recently got married and moved into an apartment where my analog guitar/bass rigs would probably get me evicted, so I decided to jump face first into a digital platform that would cover both my bass/guitar needs. However I don't have studio monitors and can only rely on my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80Ohms plugged direct. So... I played through the presets and it sounds rough so I tried making a couple simple profiles for a generic high gain tone (thanks youtube) and once again the tone is bad/harsh/shrill with no clarity (tried several amp models and cabs). I figured its probably user error since I'm VERY new to the digital gear so as a last ditch attempt, I download and load a few highly rated customtone profiles and some of them sound worse than where I started. 

I tried the settings with a Merrow MkIII, Suhr Modern, Edwards LP and a Washburn w/ EMGs. I haven't even bothered trying my basses out since I've been so frustrated with how bad I sound with just my guitars... I did a little digging here and some people with the regular Helix said they have specific output option for headphones, the LT does not. I also read that some people use varying mixers/headphone amps which they claim opens up the tone in the cans.

 

I was wondering if this really helps and if so which headphone amp does every recommend?? 

I'm just dying inside that I finally have the time to play my guitars and basses and can't get a great tone from my Helix LT, any help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

[rsvette12]

I have a little dot III as preamp and a Emotiva A-100 Amp - if I want it warmer I turn up the tube amp - more digital Emotiva would get turned up - basically just keep it on the warm side

 

Emotiva is very hard to find and you probably dont want to spend as much has I did

 

I use Sennheiser HD 650 - 300ohm Headphones

 

If I were you I would spring for a little dot III - nothing older - just do your homework on the ohms of your headphones as mine is 300 and yours is 80

 

You will be blown away when you use a quality amp

 

Amp gets routed cables from helix out into amp - headphones plug into amp 

 

Good luck money well spent like be there especially with 2 amps - its crazy good - tons of head room - really loud which is good to have great quality without cranking it

 

FYI - I bought cheap amp - waste of money better spent on a quality unit

[cruisinon2]

16 hours ago, SteeBoon said:

I was wondering if this really helps...

 

 

 

 

This is a garbage in/garbage out scenario. No headphone amp on earth can resuscitate a patch that sounds fundamentally lousy, nor will it transform fundamentally $hitty headphones into a good pair of cans. If you're looking for a magic bullet, this ain't it, trust me.

 

The overwhelming majority of Helixers who rely heavily on headphones (and that includes me) are not using a dedicated external headphone amp... you don't need it (unless you've got a pair of very high impedance cans and you need the extra power to drive them at sufficient volume, but that's a whole other discussion). There tends to be a pretty steep learning curve for just about everybody when they're new to modeling. What you need at the outset is to come to terms with the fact that creating tones with a modeler is fundamentally different than using a guitar amp. You have to think like a recording engineer, not a guitar player... because you're recreating the signal chain you'd have in a studio,  in the digital realm...an amp, a cabinet, and a mic... all heard through a pair of studio monitors in the control room, not what you'd hear sitting next to the amp itself. This is where most guys go wrong in the beginning.

 

Check out Jason Sadites' YouTube channel... he's got some excellent Helix tutorials for anybody starting at square one.

[SteeBoon]

Thank you for your input. I basically bought the Beyerdynamic headphones as per lurking around the forum and been watching the Jason Sadites tutorials for help/tips. I’m just questioning everything at this point because even the custom tone profiles that are very highly rated sound not so great...

 

I’ve taken some audio engineering classes in the past and get the general idea and try to strive for a more “studio” sound akin to what would be used on a record rather than a live gig sound but I guess I have a lot more work to do... 
 

[qwerty42]

I doubt that a headphone amp is going to make much difference. I use my Helix floor with an old set of Sennheiser HD580 cans (300 ohm impedance) and the Helix drives them very well. If the LT has the same headphone output circuitry, it should have no problem driving 80 ohm headphones.   Edit -- see my post below. Lower-impedance headphones might not be ideal for Helix's 12-ohm impedance headphone output.

[qwerty42]

18 hours ago, SteeBoon said:

some people with the regular Helix said they have specific output option for headphones, the LT does not.

Nope, the helix floor has a dedicated 'phones' output jack, as does the LT. There's no special headphone mode on either, just the ability to route your output through the headphone jack (that is where you're plugging into, correct?). Since you've tried multiple patches, I would look at other things in common: try a different cord, try a different set of headphones, maybe do a global reset on the unit just to put all the global settings back at default (did you check to make sure the global EQ isn't active?)

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, SteeBoon said:

because even the custom tone profiles that are very highly rated sound not so great...

This is something else that you will learn over time. Even if you had the exact same set up as the person who made the preset, you would need to modify the tone to suit your situation. You may be listening in a room, through a different brand of monitors, with a completely different acoustic response curve. Different guitar fitted with different gauge strings, different type of pickup, how heavy or lightly you attack your strings with pick or fingers, etc. It’s a minefield, everyone’s listening environment and playing techniques will be different to some degree, but it is a starting point for you to bend to work with your own gear.
 

Even the splendid examples created by Jason Sadites will require modification to suit your particular studio, rehearsal space or whatever. Eventually you will find it is possibly easier to create your own tones.

[rsvette12]

No disrespect - I know the difference before and after adding a quality headphone amp its night and day - to each his own - good luck with whatever you decide

[qwerty42]

2 hours ago, rsvette12 said:

No disrespect - I know the difference before and after adding a quality headphone amp its night and day - to each his own - good luck with whatever you decide

Hmmm. A headphone amp can only work with the signal it's provided, so unless it's coloring the sound itself, the only real difference should be whether or not its capable of driving the speakers (aka drivers) in the headphones to their full potential, and is properly matched to the headphone impedance.

 

With my HD580s (very similar speakers inside to your HD650s, which are also 300 ohm impedance), there is definitely a big difference if you're plugging them straight into a headphone jack on a phone, vs driving them with a capable output. They sound terrible when plugged straight into my phone, for example.

But, the headphone circuit in the Helix is designed for high-impedance studio headphones, and is plenty powerful to drive them properly. So any benefit you're getting with your HD650s via a headphone amp with your Helix headphone port is probably due to your headphone amp coloring the sound. If you're setting up patches in Helix to be used with other monitors, that's not necessarily a good thing, because the colored sound you hear in your headphones will *only* be heard that way through your headphones.

Anyway, I did a bit of digging on this to confirm the capabilities of the Helix internal headphone amp and found this interesting post by Digital Igloo (Helix chief design architect):
 

Bass in Zurich said: ↑

Also interesting is that my flat response Audio Technica headphones (these) sound really, really, bad. The budget Sony (these) headphones sound a whole heap better.

Those ATs are 38 Ω? That could explain it. Low impedance headphones are designed to provide ample volume when listening to devices with relatively wimpy headphone amps, like mobile phones and iPods. Another user elsewhere expressed concern with his Beyer DT990s (which come in three variants—32 Ω, 250 Ω, and 600 Ω) and I'm willing to bet his are 32 Ω.

I'm actually surprised your Sonys sound any better, as they're even lower, at 24 Ω.

Helix's headphone amp is LOUD; it's designed to drive high-impedance studio headphones to stage volumes. Low impedance headphones distort way faster, fatigue your ears, and at a high enough volume, can damage your hearing. With Helix you could conceivably split the headphone output to two pairs of 200-300 Ω cans/IEMs and drive both over the sound of a drummer (and adjust respective levels via MIDI CC control of path output blocks). My band does this now.

Personally, I use Sennheiser HD600s (300 Ω), and before those, the HD580s (same). Also have a bunch of Sony 7506s around, but they're 63 Ω and harsh-sounding already, even with an iPod. I also keep a pair of Sennheiser HD280 Pros (64 Ω) at work and they're pretty boxy sounding, but if I can get a mix to sound good on them, it'll sound good anywhere. I treat them like wearable Yamaha NS10s, if those NS10s were powered by an Alesis RA100 instead of a Bryston. Wouldn't want to construct tones with them.

 

Eric Klein, Chief Product Design Architect, Yamaha Guitar Group / Line 6 / Ampeg

 

Here's the link to the post: link @ thegearpage

So, maybe @SteeBoon's problem is that the 80 Ohm DT770s are not high enough impedance...? The output impedance of the Helix headphone port is 12ohms, and by the 1:8 rule of thumb for output impedance vs. headphone impedance, you'd want headphones of at least 96 ohms. Also if he's turning the volume knob way up to drive those lower impedance headphones, they might be distorting and emphasizing harsh frequencies.

 

@SteeBoon -- see if you can beg or borrow a high-impedance pair of headphones and try them. Also make sure global EQ is off on your Helix. Might be the fix you need.

 

(Also, here's a page explaining the relationship between output impedance and headphone impedance, and how it can create audible distortion and harshness if not matched properly:  http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html )