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themetallikid

Stock Amp Block Settings

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So I splurged and got the York Audio cab IR packs...mostly as a personal challenge to dial in those amps as they typically are amps that I've never been able to fall in love with, but they do things I'd love to have in my aresenal.  I threw the cab IR in to my stock template, turned off any additional eq's I had on, and grabbed the amp the cab was designed to match.  Decent results for most, creating 4 snapshots clean/breakup/crunch/overdrive (4 ascending gain stages of the amp).  For the most part i'm fine with them...but I know there are variations of the same amps in here, and some I've never really played with or know how they are supposed to sound...so...

 

are there any amps whose stock settings don't represent what the amp is typically used for?  I know the stock settings are sorta a 'good starting place' with most of these....but I watched a few Deluxe amp reviews/play throughs and it offers a wide palette of tones.  Some amps are geared more towards a single sorta sound, some more versatile.  

 

Probably not a good topic or worded well, but its slow today and my mind is wandering.

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I have disliked the stock settings for just about everything in the Helix. Don't use them as an example of how the amp sounds. I don't think they are a good place to start from but it is the only place. I'm hoping one day they will allow us to change and save the stock setting for everything so I can pull up what i like immediately and not have to remember where I like a certain amp to start from.

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1 hour ago, brue58ski said:

I have disliked the stock settings for just about everything in the Helix. Don't use them as an example of how the amp sounds. I don't think they are a good place to start from but it is the only place. I'm hoping one day they will allow us to change and save the stock setting for everything so I can pull up what i like immediately and not have to remember where I like a certain amp to start from.

 

Don't know how they came up with the stock settings, somebody's preferences I guess. As we all know, no such thing as "one size fits all" when it comes to sound.

If you want to save any amp or device's settings, just have "Template" presets. I save mine at the end of a setlist with a TMP prefix. Reverb template, delay template, OD template, etc.

Supposedly either 2.9 or 3.0 will have "Favorites".

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Just like no one will agree on what settings sound best on the front of a Fender Deluxe, no one will agree what settings sound best in the model of said Fender Deluxe.

 

3.0 will add User Model Defaults so every model can show up exactly the way you want it. Favorites is different.

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I get all that.  I guess what I was trying to imply or ask was more this....

 

There are amps that when you pull them up, with the default settings, they have a sound that seems like it is the sweet spot or the general direction the amp was designed for.  Again, probably not translating in my head well.  

 

I get everyone will have different settings and ideas and ways to use amps, but the majority of the amps in Helix I only know by forum reputation or references to songs/artists that I pick up through different threads posted here of TGP.  I have tried watching review videos through sweetwater and such and while they give a sorta the 'stock setting' run through of the amps, they leave a little to be desired sometimes...especially home shot ones where you just dont know how it sounded in the room or what was done after being recorded.  

 

I get the whole tweak the way I think it should be and dont use others settings...I only use others as a reference to start me in a different spot than the original stock settings and adjust from there.  Sometimes starting with a off white canvas creates a different portrait than a regular white canvas as a starting point.  

 

There are the usual 'main' flavors right...quick names JC-120 Cleans, Fender clean/break ups, Vox, Mesa, Marshall flavors...and while some amps by those manufacturers can cover lots of grounds tonally...there are lots of amps in the Helix that i've never heard of, heard or know if the stock setting is a good starting point or otherwise.  A lot of times I want to try an amp and see what I get out of it....but lose interest, and then wonder what that amp was designed to achieve vs. what I was trying to make it do.  

 

Sorry, not articulating what i'm lookoing for I guess very well.  No big deal, just was meant as a conversation starter and maybe some interesting tips or amps to try differently.  

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I am certainly not saying anything new here, but it also depends a lot on the guitar(s) you are using. If I plug a strat into a preset that I have tweaked for a PRS custom 24, it will generally not sound particularly good to me. I am trying to learn tweaking amp models based on the characteristics of the guitar I am using, in order to find a good starting point. E.g., my custom 24 has very strong low mids and generally high output, so I'll start with the mids on the amp rather low, as well as the gain. With a strat I'd probably do the opposite.

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12 hours ago, Digital_Igloo said:

Just like no one will agree on what settings sound best on the front of a Fender Deluxe, no one will agree what settings sound best in the model of said Fender Deluxe.

 

3.0 will add User Model Defaults so every model can show up exactly the way you want it. Favorites is different.

 

I hadn't heard that. I had heard about favorites. Good to hear.

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20 hours ago, themetallikid said:

I know there are variations of the same amps in here, and some I've never really played with or know how they are supposed to sound...so...

.... are there any amps whose stock settings don't represent what the amp is typically used for? 

 

I get what you are asking... For example, the JCM 800 (2204) default is set for a nice drive tone, typical use for a JCM800. BUT - the JCM800 is also capable of some glorious crunch (soft dirt) and clean tones as well, but they are not represented within the Helix unless you know how to dial them in. 

 

I don't know of a resource for the models in the Helix, but IMO the best approach is to look up the options for an amp that interests you. If you search for "clean tone from a JCM 800" on google/you tube, you will find examples, and how to do it. Just apply that to the Helix. Repeat for other amps that interest you. 

 

It really helps for a person to understand the general concept of an amp.... (I'm not saying you don't, I'm just including it as general knowledge)

  • Gain down > volume up for clean tones
  • Gain up > volume down for crunch/dirt tones
  • Adjust mid for richness (meat) of the tone (this is the character of most amps)
  • Adjust bass/treble to taste.... varies wildly from guitar to guitar.

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15 hours ago, Digital_Igloo said:

Just like no one will agree on what settings sound best on the front of a Fender Deluxe, no one will agree what settings sound best in the model of said Fender Deluxe.

 

3.0 will add User Model Defaults so every model can show up exactly the way you want it. Favorites is different.

YES!!

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17 hours ago, themetallikid said:

I get all that.  I guess what I was trying to imply or ask was more this....

 

There are amps that when you pull them up, with the default settings, they have a sound that seems like it is the sweet spot or the general direction the amp was designed for.  Again, probably not translating in my head well.  

 

I get everyone will have different settings and ideas and ways to use amps, but the majority of the amps in Helix I only know by forum reputation or references to songs/artists that I pick up through different threads posted here of TGP.  I have tried watching review videos through sweetwater and such and while they give a sorta the 'stock setting' run through of the amps, they leave a little to be desired sometimes...especially home shot ones where you just dont know how it sounded in the room or what was done after being recorded.  

 

I get the whole tweak the way I think it should be and dont use others settings...I only use others as a reference to start me in a different spot than the original stock settings and adjust from there.  Sometimes starting with a off white canvas creates a different portrait than a regular white canvas as a starting point.  

 

There are the usual 'main' flavors right...quick names JC-120 Cleans, Fender clean/break ups, Vox, Mesa, Marshall flavors...and while some amps by those manufacturers can cover lots of grounds tonally...there are lots of amps in the Helix that i've never heard of, heard or know if the stock setting is a good starting point or otherwise.  A lot of times I want to try an amp and see what I get out of it....but lose interest, and then wonder what that amp was designed to achieve vs. what I was trying to make it do.  

 

Sorry, not articulating what i'm lookoing for I guess very well.  No big deal, just was meant as a conversation starter and maybe some interesting tips or amps to try differently.  

The short answer is... no one will ever agree on what constitutes a great model default. Everyone thinks there's some objectivity but there really isn't. What you think sounds amazing will sound like complete hot garbage to the next guitarist, based on a ton of factors: instrument, strings, pickups, playback system, playback volume, playing style, genre, tempo, whether you want it to sound good by itself vs. with a band vs. in a mix, etc.

 

Just like All. Presets. Suck.©, all defaults suck. That's why we're letting you change them.

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User defaults are truly great. But what would be even better would be presets per block, turning up once you select a block.

And what would be yet a lot better would be "multiple block presets", allowing you to save, say, a combination of a drive and amp block as one preset. And yes, I know that this would likely be extremely tough to realize due to the half modular layout of the Helix and its dynamic DSP allocation. Still, that would be fantastic. On a sidenote, a global block functionality could serve similar purposes...

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10 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

User defaults are truly great. But what would be even better would be presets per block, turning up once you select a block.

And what would be yet a lot better would be "multiple block presets", allowing you to save, say, a combination of a drive and amp block as one preset. And yes, I know that this would likely be extremely tough to realize due to the half modular layout of the Helix and its dynamic DSP allocation. Still, that would be fantastic. On a sidenote, a global block functionality could serve similar purposes...

I do this by saving presets with combinations of amps/drives with specific settings. There are 1024 user presets available, plenty for me to save a bunch of amps and drives that I love. I call one of them up, "save as" in a different location, and add modulation, verb, delay to taste. 

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2 hours ago, jbuhajla said:

I do this by saving presets with combinations of amps/drives with specific settings. There are 1024 user presets available, plenty for me to save a bunch of amps and drives that I love. I call one of them up, "save as" in a different location, and add modulation, verb, delay to taste. 

I can see that being an option, and a workaround that's been around for awhile.  I guess I'm confused now on what will be implemented...is it only (and I use that term not in a complaining way by any means) that we can save the default settings for each amp type (greatly useful, thank you).  Or is it that we can save different versions of the block with saved settings (ie, Fender Deluxe set to clean, breaktup, crunch, overdriven) and then recall that version of the amp from another location?  

 

3 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

User defaults are truly great. But what would be even better would be presets per block, turning up once you select a block.

And what would be yet a lot better would be "multiple block presets", allowing you to save, say, a combination of a drive and amp block as one preset. And yes, I know that this would likely be extremely tough to realize due to the half modular layout of the Helix and its dynamic DSP allocation. Still, that would be fantastic. On a sidenote, a global block functionality could serve similar purposes...

I agree, global blocks would be cool/helpful, I would only really use that it if allowed global edits.  Meaning if I save the Placatar amp with a HBE/saturated switch on version and a unsaturated non-HBE crunch version and then edit the mids, it would adjust all versions using that global amp block setting so I didn't then have to edit 50+ potential presets.  

 

 

 

I was going to ask if blocks on their own would ever be allowed to be shared.  I know its easy enough to get settings from someone, but having someone send you their phaser deep settings vs just exporting the block and sharing it, and importing would be cool and easier to create a Frankenstein preset from various stock/user presets.

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3 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

User defaults are truly great. But what would be even better would be presets per block, turning up once you select a block.

A couple products let you do this, but it drives us completely mad. Adding yet another layer of obfuscation—not to mention the constant feeling that you need to manage said extra layer of obfuscation—doesn't necessarily make things easier or more elegant; it's just deeper.

 

Besides, why waste memory on X number of model presets for all the models you don't use? The point of Favorites is to instantly make available whatever you want, wherever you want, independent of category. So you could have twelve favorite versions of Revv Gen Purple right next to four favorite versions of Cosmos Echo right next to one favorite version of Plastichorus. Reorder, rename, put your best of the best at the top and any empty preset is 5-10 seconds from having your best-tweaked models added.

30 minutes ago, themetallikid said:

I was going to ask if blocks on their own would ever be allowed to be shared.  I know its easy enough to get settings from someone, but having someone send you their phaser deep settings vs just exporting the block and sharing it, and importing would be cool and easier to create a Frankenstein preset from various stock/user presets.

The hope is the ability to import just the Favorites from a backup (by unchecking Presets, IRs, and Global Settings during a restore). Presumably, someone could share all 128 meticulously-tweaked favorite models with their friends. Jury's still out on whether that part will be in 3.0 tho'.

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1 hour ago, Digital_Igloo said:

 

A couple products let you do this, but it drives us completely mad. Adding yet another layer of obfuscation—not to mention the constant feeling that you need to manage said extra layer of obfuscation—doesn't necessarily make things easier or more elegant; it's just deeper.

 

Besides, why waste memory on X number of model presets for all the models you don't use? The point of Favorites is to instantly make available whatever you want, wherever you want, independent of category. So you could have twelve favorite versions of Revv Gen Purple right next to four favorite versions of Cosmos Echo right next to one favorite version of Plastichorus. Reorder, rename, put your best of the best at the top and any empty preset is 5-10 seconds from having your best-tweaked models added.

The hope is the ability to import just the Favorites from a backup (by unchecking Presets, IRs, and Global Settings during a restore). Presumably, someone could share all 128 meticulously-tweaked favorite models with their friends. Jury's still out on whether that part will be in 3.0 tho'.

Ok, thank you DI for sharing that.  That makes sense.  The sharing thing isn't a 'wish' of mine, but was a thought.  I like that Helix has some deeper parameters, but not to the paralyzing effect that Fractal has.   It makes sharing settings much easier as well, and the block sharing was more of a result from my previous Fractal use.   

 

Thanks again!

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1 hour ago, Digital_Igloo said:

Besides, why waste memory on X number of model presets for all the models you don't use? The point of Favorites is to instantly make available whatever you want, wherever you want, independent of category. So you could have twelve favorite versions of Revv Gen Purple right next to four favorite versions of Cosmos Echo right next to one favorite version of Plastichorus. Reorder, rename, put your best of the best at the top and any empty preset is 5-10 seconds from having your best-tweaked models added.

 

Ok, if this is how favourites work, I'm fine. Bring it on.

And then proceed to global blocks (in all seriousness, I couldn't image any single improvement that'd be more relevant for my Helix use cases, I'd happily pay some decent upgrade fee for that - and no, that shouldn't give you ideas...).

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2 hours ago, themetallikid said:

I agree, global blocks would be cool/helpful, I would only really use that it if allowed global edits.  Meaning if I save the Placatar amp with a HBE/saturated switch on version and a unsaturated non-HBE crunch version and then edit the mids, it would adjust all versions using that global amp block setting so I didn't then have to edit 50+ potential presets. 

 

That is precisely how things would/should work.

Fwiw, I kinda "hacked" one possible way to realize global blocks (if of interest, I could elaborate), just that it doesn't exactly work (which isn't the fault of my hack, btw). I'm only mentioning this because I'm absolutely positive that this kinda hack could be internalized without much trouble.

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On 4/16/2020 at 9:33 AM, Digital_Igloo said:

Just like no one will agree on what settings sound best on the front of a Fender Deluxe, no one will agree what settings sound best in the model of said Fender Deluxe.

 

3.0 will add User Model Defaults so every model can show up exactly the way you want it. Favorites is different.

 

Most know what a useful practical stage amp sound is, and what's not showing its best.

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