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Indianrock2020

Midi floor device capable of sending CC commands

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At home I've been treating my Helix floor more or less like a rack unit having it on a shelf or table .

.....occasionally I want to be able to control it with a floor switch without unplugging everything and putting it down on the floor... I've looked at the tech 21 midi mouse and midi mongoose but my primary use for this would be the switch snapshots probably nothing else since the snapshots themselves are so easily customizable ....it isn't clear either one of those will send CC change control commands ..... It looks like those only send program changes which would switch presets but not snapshots..... anybody seen one in the under $150 range that will do that ?....I also looked at an iPad app that will send midi commands over USB to the helix but that ties up the USB that I'd rather keep for HX edit

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FCB1010 and UNO_ControlCenter Editor.

 

https://www.fcb1010.uno/

 

225654937_SSandPresets.thumb.png.3a5c85d28ff2b4473b1cbcdb88d8ea52.png

.

Cheapest, most flexible and most programmable. Technophobes will say that it hard to program. That's why you get the UNO_ControlCenter Editor, pictured above.

The pictured configuration is about the simplest, but with the UNO Chip (not necessary to use the editor), you can easily control 5 Stomps, change snapshots and recall presets.

Works with standard MIDI DIN connectors. Computer connection only required for configuration - can also be configured manually, but I don't recommend it.

In your price range there's nothing better.

If you choose to go this way, I'll be happy to help with your configuration.

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That Behringer looks awesome but I want to find something with a smaller size for the limited use I've described.

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Yes, it's huge. But for $150? Good Luck!

 

WARNING!

 

Every other device (and there's not many) in that price range is limited in function and/or programmability (not a word, but should be), and often lack editors.

Download and read the manuals before purchasing.

 

For instance, this LOOKS perfect:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Controller,MeloAudio-Multi-Effects-Controller-Switches,2-Expression/dp/B07HH27RVN/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=midi+foot+controller&qid=1587314586&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-2

 

But here's a typical review, from THEIR OWN website (https://meloaudio.com/collections/tone-shifter/products/meloaudio-midi-commander-guitar-floor-multi-effects-portable-usb-midi-foot-controller-foot-switches):

 

Could have been a great product but ...

Sorry to be the grouchy guy here, but the Midi Commander is a big disappointment and a real waste, as it could have been a great product.
The worst is that (except for the preconfigured Kemper, AxeFX, etc, modes) it is unsuable because of two details : no possibility to edit the CC value and, i am still left aghast about this, the latch (toggle off) mode only sends 127 value and no 0 value, so i don't know what this could be used for. The logic would be that IF on toggle ON, one click would send 127 and next click would send 0, THEN on toggle mode OFF one click would send 127 then immediatly go to zero as soon as the switch is released, NO ? Am i retarded ? Or is this a joke ?? This would be kind of easily forgiven if the customer support were communicating, but is is one of the worst i have ever encountered, only polite answers with no facts behind the promises. I honestly feel fooled and spent some precious money for something i just can't use. For some, 150 bucks is still an amount in a monthly budget.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bolded text is the dis-qualifier.

 

And the "Manual" is barely readable.

 

There's a reason that the FCB has been the go-to economy foot controller for two decades. Also, you can often find them used for $75-100.

You can always cut off the Expression pedals. There's a guy, think he made a video on YouTube, who actually did that! Looked really cool!

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Just saw soundog's post. If you can snag that, it could do the job, but be sure to use PayPal (for the guarantee). The one I saw didn't look all that sturdy.

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Come to think of it, if you want to use HX Edit/computer along with a foot switch controller, you should look for something with 5-pin MIDI.

 

Yeah, the FCB1010 is a monster (though industrial strength).

 

Another thought would be something like a Logidy UMI3 USB/MIDI foot switch, connected to your computer, running alongside HX Edit .... and then go USB from computer to Helix.

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3 minutes ago, Indianrock2020 said:

This might work, does CC commands

 

 

https://www.disasterareaamps.com/shop/dmc-micro

 

I must be misunderstanding your needs. The usual reason for using snapshots is to go quickly, with no audio dropout, from one sound to another.

I don't see how a two button switch allows quick access to 8 snapshots? 

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I only need four commands, five if I decide to program in the CC68 toggle tuner command.  If this DMC.micro could be set up so program numbers 1-5 move through four snapshots plus the tuner, that would be 98% of a done deal for me.
 

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55 minutes ago, Indianrock2020 said:

I only need four commands, five if I decide to program in the CC68 toggle tuner command.  If this DMC.micro could be set up so program numbers 1-5 move through four snapshots plus the tuner, that would be 98% of a done deal for me.
 

 

Cool. Don't forget to RTM!

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Lots of options.  I'm taking another look at the Apple midi pad 2 app.   Unfortunately my old Ipad probably won't update to IOS 10 which is required.   Midi pad Upsides:  cheap and no new hardware...connects to Helix with the Apple camera adapter kit.  One of the downsides is you're having to mount the Ipad somewhere like on a music stand.  If I have to get a newer Ipad then that is also a downside, especially when I don't have any other need for an Ipad.   The one I have was given to me and I just use it to control my IEM mix at church.

There is a reality though --- many products in the audio world just assume Apple.   There are often workarounds or alternatives for those in the Android/Windows world.  I'm not sure if it's just that many musos are big on Apple or if it is a more stable operating environment to program for ( or both )

It's also true that you can't expect any product to be update-able forever.  Hardware and operating systems just age out.

https://apps.apple.com/app/id896879399#?platform=ipad

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Would it be easier for you to keep the helix on the floor and use HX software for editing? Assuming you have a computer that you can use for the purpose.

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I keep the Helix and a laptop ( for HX edit etc ) on a desk, and at home, need to keep it that way.  If it went on the floor it would have to stay there -- just not practical here.  A midi pedal could easily be picked up and placed in a drawer when not in use.  What makes the choice more difficult is that this midi need may go away in six months, so I don't want to drop a lot of money on it.

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Too bad the CC message sent by the Actition controllers aren't editable. The 8-button version would be really good for this application. Maybe they will customize the CC messages for you??

 

I have the 4-button USB version (not used with the Helix) and it works very well.

 

https://www.actition.co.uk/

 

Can the CC messages needed by the Helix to select snapshots be edited?

 

--jack

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12 minutes ago, jackwagner said:

Can the CC messages needed by the Helix to select snapshots be edited?

 

No.

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9 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

No.

 

I didn't think so. For the Actition to work, you'd probably have to get them to make a custom version for you.

 

--jack

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1 hour ago, Andreee-74 said:

all you want (CC, PC, momentary mod, change bancks ect...)is these midcontrollers https://bjdevices.com/ru/

 

They look nice, BUT...

Only one model has a price, and that's much more than the OP wants to spend.

The manual is only partially translated from Russian to English.

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rd2rk

Let me disagree with you a little, yes, at the moment not all the controllers of this manufacturer are on sale (they are disassembled like hot cakes), but the same model with the TB-6P expression pedal costs 12,000 rubles - about $ 157, and that’s almost end-to-end with the requirements of top starter. By the way, the version without the TB5 expression pedal costs even less than 9,000 rubles, which is about 120 bucks :)

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PS...

 

It’s possible for Russia, of course, the prices are a little more affordable, the manufacturer is still Russian, but I don’t think that the price difference of 20-30 bucks somehow seems to be a choice between heavy, clumsy and completely losing in behringer functions and light as a feather (1.5 - 2 kilograms) not killable BJ devices. This is absolutely not some kind of advertising, I just used it for 3 years until I bought Helix LT and AX8

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11 hours ago, Andreee-74 said:

rd2rk

Let me disagree with you a little, yes, at the moment not all the controllers of this manufacturer are on sale (they are disassembled like hot cakes), but the same model with the TB-6P expression pedal costs 12,000 rubles - about $ 157, and that’s almost end-to-end with the requirements of top starter. By the way, the version without the TB5 expression pedal costs even less than 9,000 rubles, which is about 120 bucks :)

 

10 hours ago, Andreee-74 said:

PS...

 

It’s possible for Russia, of course, the prices are a little more affordable, the manufacturer is still Russian, but I don’t think that the price difference of 20-30 bucks somehow seems to be a choice between heavy, clumsy and completely losing in behringer functions and light as a feather (1.5 - 2 kilograms) not killable BJ devices. This is absolutely not some kind of advertising, I just used it for 3 years until I bought Helix LT and AX8

 

I guess this is a language difference thing, since I'm not sure what you're saying.

Thank you for posting the prices. If they're on the website, I must have missed that.

I have no problem buying Russian, or Chinese, or Martian products.

From what I could understand of the manual, they seem to be quite capable devices.

However, if they want to sell them outside of Russia, they need to finish translating the manual.

I'd also be concerned about support for that same reason.

That said, it's always good to know about other options.

I'm quite happy with my clunky FCB1010, not to mention the MIDI capabilities of Helix.

But if they were to make a compact, programmable Rotary Controller, I might be interested in that!

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At the moment I have narrowed it down to the midi baby 3 and the DMC micro, both in my price range at about 100 to $150.......There is a nice web-based editor for the midi baby to assist in programming but it has no LED display so I'm thinking the only way you're going to know which preset or snapshot you're on is by matching the Helix LED color to the color currently selected by one of the switches on the midi baby........The DMC.micro has a display but no user-friendly editor that I've been able to find

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rd2rk

The likely difference in language metaphors most likely introduces you into some misunderstanding, please forgive me for this. but it's still better than translating the entire branch into Russian)))

Here you can find alternative firmware for this device from Australian guys http://www.gmarts.org/tb2/ In addition to the expanded functionality for comparing with Russian, there is also a full-fledged manual in English, if you are interested, you may be curious :)

 

PS...

I’m familiar with the manufacturer (not personally, more virtually) after your message I talked with him, at the moment on the official website there are only eight-button controllers without an expression pedal available, next week TB6-P controllers with an expression pedal will be available, if you are interested of course

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9 hours ago, Andreee-74 said:

rd2rk

The likely difference in language metaphors most likely introduces you into some misunderstanding, please forgive me for this. but it's still better than translating the entire branch into Russian)))

Here you can find alternative firmware for this device from Australian guys http://www.gmarts.org/tb2/ In addition to the expanded functionality for comparing with Russian, there is also a full-fledged manual in English, if you are interested, you may be curious :)

 

PS...

I’m familiar with the manufacturer (not personally, more virtually) after your message I talked with him, at the moment on the official website there are only eight-button controllers without an expression pedal available, next week TB6-P controllers with an expression pedal will be available, if you are interested of course

 

I'm not interested, but I'm sure the information that you provided will be of use to someone else.

Thanks for the follow-up, and stay healthy!

 

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For the time being I've given up on hardware devices and looking into an Ipad app .    In my price range, there is very little information available on specific uses.  Both the DMC.micro and Midi Baby 3 had drawbacks for what I want to do.
An Ipad app of course means I can't operate it with my foot but won't cost much to test.  I already have the Apple camera adapter to connect the Ipad to the Helix.

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Have you considered Bluetooth LE foot Switches. You can use those to control iPad apps and with a fairly cheap BT to MIDI converter you can also control Helix. I have not fully investigated all the available foot switches, but the 4 button Blueboard from IK Multimedia (currently $100 at Amazon, but I have seen it cheaper in the past) and the AirTurn BT200S-2/4/6 series with 2/4/6 buttons ($80/110/130 at Amazon) come to mind. There are other choices, but not many and more expensive. The AirTurn web site has more specific details about the Button modes and various MIDI command/messages (besides premiered page turn modes) they support.


I managed to control an iPad looper and drummer with the Helix looper buttons sending its MIDI messages to the iPad by putting the Helix looper on a no-output path. Obviously this is pretty restrictive, but proves the concept works, even w/o BT pedal.

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Martin door that's intriguing... I hadn't considered that option ...now keep in mind I'm sending midi signals from something external like the Bluetooth device you mentioned to the Helix... I have zero need to send anything in the way of midi from the helix.... all I want to do is flip between 5 snapshots and if I can additionally toggle the tuner off and on that would be icing on the cake.

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I bought the BM-A01 Bluetooth MIDI adapter (currently unavailable at Amazon, but I believe there are lots of other choices) and plugged it into the MIDI in and out ports on the Helix. It comes with a tiny Startup procedure using an iPad/iPhone or android app to fire it up. Thereafter my iPad received MIDI messages from Helix. That’s all I tried and checked. Given the adapter gadget has both in and out port connectivity I ASSUME you will also be able to send MIDI messages to Helix (either from your BT LE capable device or from the for-mentioned BT Foot switches. YMMV though and assuming is clearly not knowing for sure. I would first check whether the foot switch you plan to select can be programmed to send the MIDI messages you need to control your target devices or apps. If the switch capability looks right order the switch and BT/MIDI adapter from a place you can return it to if it turns out it does not work.

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