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rsvette12

2.9 green signal

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Hi Guys:

 

Whats up with this new feature - I am not seeing them light up green - nothing at all actually - no big deal but wondering why I am not seeing them light up - thanks 

 

 

Signal Present/Clip Indicators (Helix Floor, Helix Rack/Control, Helix LT, HX Stomp) The following block types now display a pale green background when signal is present and a bright red background if the block clips:
Input
Output
Send/Return > Send (clip indication only)
Send/Return > Return (clip indication only)
Send/Return > FX Loop (clip indication only)

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It's VERY subtle. This may be something that needs work, though I'm firmly in the "who cares?" camp.

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5 hours ago, rd2rk said:

It's VERY subtle. This may be something that needs work, though I'm firmly in the "who cares?" camp.

 

Agree if by "subtle" you mean you need a chromatograph set to its most sensitive setting to see it from a standing position. Yup, definitely needs tweaking. Also strange that they just chose a colored background for the input block and included bars for the output block. Would have preferred bars on both. The implementation could use some fine tuning IMHO in the 3.0 firmware. Any way, very happy and grateful to see meters and indicators(grrrrr) making their way into the Helix. Enthused to start testing the gain reduction meters.

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And I can definitively say that in my first sixty seconds of initial testing the gain reduction meters are AWESOME! Such a great feature to roll out. Makes setting the compressor way faster and easier!

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Hi,

 

in the video of Jason Sadites about Gain Reduction Meters it is not too hard to see:

 

 

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its not "in the block" , its "in the icon". 

this is good - but I was looking for it in the Block settings for input.

Excellent decision - now that i know where to look.

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8 hours ago, Simon268 said:

Hi,

 

in the video of Jason Sadites about Gain Reduction Meters it is not too hard to see:

 

 

 

I agree, it is very visible in this video. Looks nothing like that on my Helix where it is so dim as to be almost imperceptible. Don't know if that was a beta version he was demoing, or if the camera picks it up better than the human eye, or perhaps my screen is dimmer than his. I have one of the first Helix's that got produced. I pre-ordered mine when they first came out. Is the green background on the input/output icons dim on other people's screens as well?

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I didnt even know where to necessarily look and it stood out to me on my screen with it being on my pedalboard and me sitting in an office chair.  it wasnt xmas light bright, but i noticed the change in color enough to be aware of it.

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I have the same issue. the green signal is very dimmed and nearly invisible. the red one is ok !

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My take after a day with the metering. Well once again have to say the gain reduction meters are magnificent. The output meters are also a welcome addition but agree they would be more helpful with some kind of markings or different colored segments, e.g., moving from green to yellow to red. Really dislike the dim green lighting of the input icon. Would much prefer to have input bars that were located over where the output bars are now.

 

The addition of the meters, great feature! Why make it so you have to select the output block to see them? Users will have to resave every preset/snapshot with the output block highlighted just to use the meters live? If you want to see the output meters while you are building a preset you are going to have to switch back and forth between the for example, effect block whose level you are adjusting, and then jump over to highlight the output block. Just too much work for me to fit in between my busy schedule of hand washing and procuring food and toilet paper.  

 

Ditch the nigh invisible light up icon effect on the input block, or if you think it is really keen keep it and make it brighter. Either way just add input meters. Leave input and output bars showing all the time. No matter which block is selected. Maybe add a global setting to turn them off for people who don't want to use metering all the time.  I know Line6 wasn't too enthused about the idea of adding meters but now that they are here let's make the most of 'em. Free the meters!

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To me having the meters very fancy and always going is just a useless suck on DSP cycles. If you are interested in signal levels, turn them on to check. If not, I’ld rather not see (or see much of) them, but have a bit more headroom on DSP cycles and may be able to run another model block on occasion if things are tight. Just my 2 cents.

That said I love to have the meters, even better ones with some level indications. But they are to check whether things are there when something is odd or not working. Once you’ve done your homework, I think there is really no need to see them bounce around all the time, and in some extra fancy fashion.

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29 minutes ago, MartinDorr said:

To me having the meters very fancy and always going is just a useless suck on DSP cycles. If you are interested in signal levels, turn them on to check. If not, I’ld rather not see (or see much of) them, but have a bit more headroom on DSP cycles and may be able to run another model block on occasion if things are tight. Just my 2 cents.

That said I love to have the meters, even better ones with some level indications. But they are to check whether things are there when something is odd or not working. Once you’ve done your homework, I think there is really no need to see them bounce around all the time, and in some extra fancy fashion.

 

I get what you are saying and I assumed there would be users who did not want them on all the time. At least having the option would allow them to be used more easily when constructing a preset. I would suggest a global option to show them all the time, only when the output block for example is selected as they operate now, or just turn them off. That would catch a wider variety of user preferences. 

 

I thought about the DSP thing myself but if the meters work the way most other DSP allotment functions on the Helix, then they are permanently using the same amount of DSP whether they are being displayed or not. Could be wrong though and if the DSP usage is different or the cycles consumed when active impact other processing adversely that is definitely a consideration .

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On 4/23/2020 at 11:30 PM, HonestOpinion said:

My take after a day with the metering. Well once again have to say the gain reduction meters are magnificent. The output meters are also a welcome addition but agree they would be more helpful with some kind of markings or different colored segments, e.g., moving from green to yellow to red. Really dislike the dim green lighting of the input icon. Would much prefer to have input bars that were located over where the output bars are now.

 

The addition of the meters, great feature! Why make it so you have to select the output block to see them? Users will have to resave every preset/snapshot with the output block highlighted just to use the meters live? If you want to see the output meters while you are building a preset you are going to have to switch back and forth between the for example, effect block whose level you are adjusting, and then jump over to highlight the output block. Just too much work for me to fit in between my busy schedule of hand washing and procuring food and toilet paper.  

 

Ditch the nigh invisible light up icon effect on the input block, or if you think it is really keen keep it and make it brighter. Either way just add input meters. Leave input and output bars showing all the time. No matter which block is selected. Maybe add a global setting to turn them off for people who don't want to use metering all the time.  I know Line6 wasn't too enthused about the idea of adding meters but now that they are here let's make the most of 'em. Free the meters!

A Few thoughts.... output meters.... theres not really a reason to see them all the time. Most any output is kinda set and forget. If output levels fluctuate that much, it most likely means your volume is as well, not good.

 

IMO just two colors for the out meters green and yellow.   helix cant clip, so no need to add a third color for clip indication.

 

In/out meters showing at all times probably makes the screen too cluttered looking for my tastes, especially when a gain reduc meter joins up with the always on in/out meters.

 

I think the input blocks are fine. Youre plugging a guitar in, volumes arent really going to alter wildly enough to take advantage of any kind of precisive metering.

 

Take no offense please. Ive been against everything but gain reduction meters since day one, so it could have just as well been DIs name at the top of this post and it would have received then same response.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, willjrock said:

A Few thoughts.... output meters.... theres not really a reason to see them all the time. Most any output is kinda set and forget. If output levels fluctuate that much, it most likely means your volume is as well, not good.

 

IMO just two colors for the out meters green and yellow.   helix cant clip, so no need to add a third color for clip indication.

 

In/out meters showing at all times probably makes the screen too cluttered looking for my tastes, especially when a gain reduc meter joins up with the always on in/out meters.

 

I think the input blocks are fine. Youre plugging a guitar in, volumes arent really going to alter wildly enough to take advantage of any kind of precisive metering.

 

Take no offense please. Ive been against everything but gain reduction meters since day one, so it could have just as well been DIs name at the top of this post and it would have received then same response.

 

 

 

 

I'll grant you that much of what you would use metering for could be done ahead of time when designing your presets but I could see finding them useful for a host of other reasons as well.

 

As far as the two color versus three color meters I could live with either. My main goal is just to get some visual demarcation so I can more easily and quickly eyeball where my signal is hitting.

 

I used a Fractal Ultra in the past and I have to say the input meters were handy for getting input levels right. I don't find a light on the input block that I can barely see from a standing position, and only tells me if I am getting a signal, not how much, near as useful. 

 

Definitely no offence taken. I appreciate that different musicians are not all going to prefer the same "dashboard" depending on what they like to see and find useful. Even their own preferences may vary depending on whether they are gigging or recording. Hopefully without bloating the global options, as new features that inhabit screen real estate get added,  I like the idea of things like meters being available when users want them on, or being less, or not visible, when they don't.

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so HO, Im not clear why you need to monitor how strong your guitar signal is....I mean , you cant change it!. yes if you install hotter pickups it will change but that's obvious.

The only purpose for the green signal present on the input icon is for troubleshooting is there is no sound - its a way to check your cable is not dead.   Its a very rare thing to actually need.
With the output meters, again,the number one use is to check that there is signal laving the Helix.  Sure you might check the signal strength while editing a preset but if you follow good practice (ie. Keep blocks close to unity) its always going to look right on the meters.

I do appreciate that people find GR meters useful - but at the end of the day its the effect on the sound that should drive setting changes on a compressor.  Im fairly experienced with compression so I have not changed any of my compressor settings since I got the GR metering - but Ill probably look at them briefly while setting up new patches.

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19 hours ago, lawrence_Arps said:

so HO, Im not clear why you need to monitor how strong your guitar signal is....I mean , you cant change it!. yes if you install hotter pickups it will change but that's obvious.

The only purpose for the green signal present on the input icon is for troubleshooting is there is no sound - its a way to check your cable is not dead.   Its a very rare thing to actually need.
With the output meters, again,the number one use is to check that there is signal laving the Helix.  Sure you might check the signal strength while editing a preset but if you follow good practice (ie. Keep blocks close to unity) its always going to look right on the meters.

I do appreciate that people find GR meters useful - but at the end of the day its the effect on the sound that should drive setting changes on a compressor.  Im fairly experienced with compression so I have not changed any of my compressor settings since I got the GR metering - but Ill probably look at them briefly while setting up new patches.

 

I should start by saying I realize that many actions that people may find metering helpful for can be done by ear as well. For others having a visual indicator when used in tandem with your ears can make for some pretty fine adjustments.

 

It may be less important on the Helix which seems to accept a wide range of input levels but I do like visual confirmation of what range of signal level a device prefers to see and responds best to . Since the decision was made by L6 to add input indicators I would have preferred to see actual meters on the input block. Provides more detail on signal level than two colors but that is just my preference.  Their approach still tells you the critical information - when there is adequate signal and when there is clipping. I can learn to like them, particularly if they dial up the brightness and you do have to admire the compactness of design. The clipping indicators on the send/return blocks are a nice addition too although there are probably users who would have preferred meters for those as well. Whoa, can see where the meter thing could start to get out of control real quick.

 

If you're not a fan of input meters probably none of the following reasons for why you might want one will change your opinion and that's fine. Different guitars, cables, or just twisting the volume knob on your guitar can change the input levels, sometimes out of the range a device operates best in. I would expect that to be rare though on the Helix which seems to accept and operate well in a wide range of levels. Seeing a signal is particularly hot might encourage you to engage the pad. Too low might tell you you have a faulty pickup or cable issue. Seeing how the meters respond to different guitars can influence how you set your levels when you design a preset. Another reason might be if for example the Helix has a "sweet spot" where it responds best to an input signal that stays between certain levels. So for me there are several other reasons to have more visual feedback on the input level than just determining if there is no signal, although it is helpful for that as well.  

 

I would be shocked if you go through all your presets with compressors using the gain reduction meters and don't find at least a few that can be tweaked for the better. I guess the exception might be players who only use one of the simpler "two-knob" compressor models with few parameters. Those are generally easy to set well by ear. Not finding gain reduction meters helpful with more complex compressors with more parameters requires a level of expertise with compressors and/or an ear that a lot of musicians just don't have.  I know myself that I instantly found compression settings in some of my favorite presets that weren't behaving exactly the way I expected and sound better now. Changes to the attack and release or threshold using both visual feedback and my ears just makes the task easier for me. It becomes simpler to see how changes in volume, pick attack,  and how hard/soft you are playing is impacting the compressor.  To sum it up, when it comes to compression I find gain reduction meters incredibly helpful. Probably my favorite addition in this firmware release. Course if you can do it as well by ears alone, go for it and good on ya.

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