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good tone / sound from Helix


kaybee64
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Hi, 

looking for some help , i am  new to the Helix , i cant seem to get a good sound out of my unit , i run it into a Boss Katana Mk 2  power amp in everything either sounds brittle or muddy   tied downloading some files from Customtone  but no matter what i try to use the issue is the same i have also tried a Headrush  FRFR108 and that was no better  so i have concluded its something i am  either doing or not  doing  with the Helix  if anyone can point me in the right direction i would be grateful

thank you 

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ITRW, all amplifiers and most effects have tone controls.

The presets and default settings were created on certain guitars (probably not yours), through certain playback systems (probably not yours), by humans with specific tastes (probably not yours).

 

This is true of ALL modelers.

 

Exercise 1

 

Start by picking an amp and cab combination that, either you are familiar with ITRW, or is used by your favorite player.

Turn the knobs until you get a sound that you like. Try different cabs. The cabs have treble and bass settings, and different mics at different distances sound different. Try things until you get a sound that you like.

 

Move on to the next amp+cab.

 

Don't start adding effects until you finish excercise 1.

 

At first your progress will be slow. As you gain experience it will become easier.

 

If you can, try different playback systems, though the ones you have should be fine.

 

If you haven't got the patience to do this, then modelers might not be your thing. 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, kaybee64 said:

Thanks for the response  i have all the time in the world right now sound like a good place to start learning  thank you 

 

YouTube is overflowing with Helix tutorials. I suggest Jason Sadites' channel..he's got some excellent Helix-specific stuff for beginners, covering all the basics you'll need to become familiar with to use any modeler effectively. They're not guitar amps... the approach to creating your tones is fundamentally different than what you're used to, and not particularly intuitive for a beginner, unless you happen to have some studio experience mic-ing and recording real amps. Modelers force you to think like a recording engineer, not a guitar player.

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5 hours ago, kaybee64 said:

i run it into a Boss Katana Mk 2  power amp in 

 

 

You say you're running the Helix into your power amp input, which means the Katana is acting as power amp and speaker cab, so you do NOT want to emulate those components with the Helix. Choose an amp model WITHOUT cabinet.

 

 

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All good info above.  Just to add on...familiarize yourself with how compressors and the parametric EQ work in conjunction with the amp model.  With modelers, you've got to think less like a guitarist, and more like a sound engineer.  

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"- Five Amp Characters, Ten Overall Tones:
Katana MkII's five primary amp characters offer everything from organic vintage tones to modern high-gain sounds, plus a dedicated voice optimized for acoustic-electric guitar. The characters have been extended with re-voiced variations, providing a wider palette of tone options to craft your personal sound."

 

5 hours ago, kaybee64 said:

i run it into a Boss Katana Mk 2  power amp in everything either sounds brittle or muddy 

 

So what you are doing it sounds like, is running one color (tone) into another color (tone). This wont work. You either need to run Helix into a Flat response Full range (FRFR) powered speaker or monitor, or just use Helix as an overpowered stompbox with your Boss Kantana MK-2. Impossible to make this work? No, but it will be a harder process to make anything amp wise that is already tone colored sound good with another one.

 

EDited: "You did not mention what you were using for a speaker, and that is 50+ percent of your tone." Yes you did- sorry I missed that. The Headrush has had good marks on the Kemper site by some saying it does sound good, so I dont understand why Helix wont work with that and sound ok. Do what Cru suggested above- watch Youtube and Jason is a good choice there. 

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21 minutes ago, aaronlyon said:

 

 

You say you're running the Helix into your power amp input, which means the Katana is acting as power amp and speaker cab, so you do NOT want to emulate those components with the Helix. Choose an amp model WITHOUT cabinet.

 

 

 

That's not a "chiseled in stone" rule.

There are no RULES. THIS IS NOT THE REAL WORLD!

Try Preamp, Amp, Amp+Cab. Use what sounds best TO YOU!

When going direct into a power amp/speaker, I find that what works best very much varies with the amp and the sound I'm after.

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23 minutes ago, spikey said:

So what you are doing it sounds like, is running one color (tone) into another color (tone). This wont work. You either need to run Helix into a Flat response Full range (FRFR) powered speaker or monitor, or just use Helix as an overpowered stompbox with your Boss Kantana MK-2. Impossible to make this work? No, but it will be a harder process to make anything amp wise that is already tone colored sound good with another one.

 

More "chiseled in stone" rules. BEWARE! Think of these type of things as "Best Practices" type suggestions, not rules.

When I (briefly) had a Katana, I found that running an entire "brittle" sounding preset through the CLEAN amp took the edge off. YMMV.

In another of your threads on this same subject, someone pointed out that there's two ways to get into the power amp on the Katana MKII.

Look into that. IIRC, one allows an EQ right before the power amp. Try messing with that, too.

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10 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

There are no RULES. THIS IS NOT THE REAL WORLD!

If ya wanna sound different then you are "technically" correct. 

It is up to the user. If you want to sound the way you sound go for it.

Notice I didn't say sound good, just different. And yes, "good" is always full of opinion.

Clapton sounds good however and thats fact. ; ) LOL

As always YMMV and thats ok. ; )

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