Re-Amp Function Sounds Off

[rubenkamlah]

The Re-Amped Signal sound somewhat "gated". Peaks are the same but it has less sustain and notes die off earlier. Also Gates in the signal chain close when they didn't in the original.

The Re-Amping feed track in my DAW has Mono Output 7 and 0.0 dB Gain. My Patch has Input USB 7/8.

I checked for Signal loss due to sending the DI only over Out 7 instead of Out7/8, but everything is fine at unity gain, an empty patch gives me back my DI with the same peak values.

I am quite disappointed about the Re-Amping function since it could be such a neat feature but apparently comes at the price of signal loss!

I hope this can be fixed!

 

Firmware Helix LT 2.82

Pro Tools 12.5

MacOS 10.14.6

[phil_m]

There shouldn’t be any signal loss or anything. I’ve done it before with Reaper, and it’s been fine. Make sure the noise gate in the Input Block on the Helix is turned off.

[qwerty42]

3 hours ago, rubenkamlah said:

The Re-Amped Signal sound somewhat "gated". Peaks are the same but it has less sustain and notes die off earlier. Also Gates in the signal chain close when they didn't in the original.

The Re-Amping feed track in my DAW has Mono Output 7 and 0.0 dB Gain. My Patch has Input USB 7/8.

I checked for Signal loss due to sending the DI only over Out 7 instead of Out7/8, but everything is fine at unity gain, an empty patch gives me back my DI with the same peak values.

I am quite disappointed about the Re-Amping function since it could be such a neat feature but apparently comes at the price of signal loss!

I hope this can be fixed!

 

Firmware Helix LT 2.82

Pro Tools 12.5

MacOS 10.14.6

Something is mis-configured. I've re-amped stuff many times before and it sounds identical to the original wet recording if you run it back through the same patch. The two biggest things I can think of are (1) when you recorded it, were you monitoring via hardware and software at the same time? That will make things sound louder than they actually are. You should only be monitoring direct or via software, not both. (2) Making sure the levels match is critical. The dry signal that you record from Helix on USB7 needs to be sent back to Helix at the exact same level it was recorded. Some DAWs have master volume controls that effect output to USB devices, so make sure that anything that effects playback/send levels of your dry track is at unity when you record and afterward. In my DAW this is done by leaving the track and master volumes at the default position which is unity, and routing the recorded dry signal through a track with the send set to USB1-2 (or whichever USB channels you're using as your re-amp inputs).

[rubenkamlah]

Did some trial and error today and figured it out. I have to complain about the UI at this point not showing you what the signal flow (Stereo/Mono) really is underneath.
As far as I understand all signals are always stereo, thats also why u can only set USB7/8 as input and no Mono USB.
To achieve same level as your guitar you actually need to set DI recording to USB7 and 8 and record both to a stereo track, becaus if you record your guitar through an empty patch to a stereo USB1/2 in this is exactly what you get when recording DI to USB7 AND 8.

for re-amping put the outs of this stereo track to USB7/8  and you are gain staging correctly/just as your guitar would.

if you only record USB7 mono DI and put out of the DAW track to USB7/8 pro tools does a split and lower the signal by -3dB and puts it on both tracks. first source of signal loss. this could be compensated by puttinfg the DI track to +3dB but its a source of error for me.

second possibility is setting the out of that mono track to USB 7 mono. with an empty patch this produces signal only on the left  - with a MONo block that funtions as "monoizer" (like you would in a real patch) this happens wich nothing can be found about in the manual: Mono blocks sum the signals of the two channels together, compensate -6dB and then process and put the result on both channels. if you use the "mono method" (Di to USB7 only and re-amp through USB7 only) this means sinal loss of -6dB when going into a mono block.
I had to find all of this out with 5 hours of trial and error and I do not like how the user interface is "scientifically incorrect" to make it look more simple. i need things to be clean, precise and correct and for that i need to know whats actually going on.
I am thinking about making an in depth youtube video about this, but I'm not sure if it is worth the effort since it's hard to explain and it seems nobody really cares about this tedious stuff... what do you think?

 

[rubenkamlah]

this guy is doing the "mono mistake" and has -6dB going into everything after the drive while re-amping. i dont know if the mono block sum compensation is befor or after that drive block but it certainly is befor everything else in that chain and certainly also part of the reason why his re-amped tone is cleaner than the original (besides the different drive).
this might seem pedantic and it works for his vibey solo reamp with a different drive, but if you jusz want to make minimal changes to an existing patch and AB the two and want to use the possibilities of digital audio recreating something 100% it's just not good enough for me.
also i have a strange issue with the reamped signal being 73-74 samples earlier than the original/DI. furthermore that time difference varies from 73-74 samples and actually cant be quantified to complete sample alignment (there is no nudging the original/reamp so they completely cancel out when flipping phase) so I am guessing there is an analog circuit involved in the reamping signal flow?

 

[qwerty42]

11 hours ago, rubenkamlah said:

As far as I understand all signals are always stereo, thats also why u can only set USB7/8 as input and no Mono USB.
To achieve same level as your guitar you actually need to set DI recording to USB7 and 8 and record both to a stereo track, becaus if you record your guitar through an empty patch to a stereo USB1/2 in this is exactly what you get when recording DI to USB7 AND 8.

What you're describing sounds like some kind of issue with Pro Tools to me. I don't use Pro Tools, so I can't help further there, but I can say for sure that when I record the DI track in FLStudio, I can select MONO USB7 as the source (without including 8), record the track, and then pipe it straight back to the input of Helix on USB1/2 (or 3/4 or 5/6, however you want) and it is identical. That said, FLStudio records everything as stereo anyway, even when it's a mono source (it just duplicates the track between channels), so when it sends back to the Helix it is sending dual-mono on USB1/2.

EDIT: Oh, now I realize you meant that you can only select a stereo pair for the input source for a path in Helix. Maybe I just got lucky with FLStudio and how it works by default then (how it records all mono inputs to a dual-mono stereo track). FLStudio won't even let me send the recorded dry signal back on a mono channel, it only lists stereo pairs as options for sending it back to Helix.
 

[datacommando]

17 hours ago, rubenkamlah said:

As far as I understand all signals are always stereo, thats also why u can only set USB7/8 as input and no Mono USB.
To achieve same level as your guitar you actually need to set DI recording to USB7 and 8 and record both to a stereo track, becaus if you record your guitar through an empty patch to a stereo USB1/2 in this is exactly what you get when recording DI to USB7 AND 8.

I have to agree with the post above from “qwerty42”.
 

It maybe something to do with ProTools settings, but in Logic Pro X, I can set a stereo input to record the fully processed Helix signal coming in on USB 1 & 2. The dry guitar is only on USB 7 and is recorded in a channel set to receive a mono source and it is set to send out on USB 7 (a single channel - mono). I can then process that DI through whatever sound mangling I wish.

 

Could not be any simpler. You might be making this more tedious that it actually is, it should be fun.

[gunpointmetal]

Yeah, I don't think this inherently a Helix issue. I reamp stuff with a mono DI track and it sounds the same as it did going in. At least you figured out how to fix it for your situation.

[Bybupz]

@rubenkamlah

 

Hey I got the same problem as you : when I am re-amping my DI track back into the Helix, I am losing a lot of gain (or volume I don't know, but I'm clearly losing something, like a signal loss somewhere).

 

I will try your method : record my DI on a stereo track with USB 7 and 8, and setting the output of that stereo DI track also on USB 7 and 8 for re-amping back into the Helix (if I get whet you said correctly, not very good in english here, and still a beginner in recording guitars so...)

 

If you have made a youtube video about this problem since 2020, let me know i'm interested.

 

Cheers.