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ThisIsFunk

Helix Floor used with Acoustic amp or studio monitors?

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Hi all!  I'm new Line 6, looking at getting a Helix Floor or LT next month.  I've been playing with all the other simulation softwares through my DAW forever, but looking at Helix now so I can also buy the Native.  My question is three pronged.  I'm sure it's been answered somewhere before, but I couldn't find the specifics I'm looking for in the other threads.  Please let me know your opinion or if you've done or used these ways before!

1)  Before I look at studio monitors, I'd like to try using my Marshall AS50D acoustic amp with left/right AUX in (which I sometimes run my DAW to in order to play backing tracks.  I also have a Fender Mustang II which I only use for playing backing tracks or routing my DAW to come out there through its mono AUX).  Would any of these work well?  I was always under the assumption acoustic amps were supposed to be like PA speakers, not coloring the sound.  It doesn't color my acoustic tone at all, so I assume it does nothing to sound going through the AUX.  Do you think I could get a great sound out of either of those through AUX or do you think my settings would be way off if I were to switch it to some other type of speaker if I had to play somewhere else?  I ask because I keep reading that FRFR speakers or studio monitors are the way to go because the sounds of the settings won't change much between them and stereo headphones, etc.

 

2)  If the above method is truly considered inferior, what size of powered studio monitor would work well for a spare half bedroom that is cheap?  It seems all the other threads many people mention Yamaha HS7/8 or something in that price range, but if I could spend less I would love to.  Does anyone think Mackie or Behringer would do alright?  I would like to get a sound that is truly representative of what the Helix can do, but hopefully on the cheaper side since I'm not playing/recording professionally.  Just something for a hobby.

 

3)  I play in a spare half bedroom.  Most of the other threads, everyone mentions 7" or "8 speakers of the different manufacturers.  Do they really need to be that big?  I see Mackie 4/5 output at 50 watts, KRK Rokit 5 at 55 watts etc.  Wouldn't 50 watts be enough for a small bedroom?  Or do you really need the 7 or 8 inch speakers?  If I went with 5 inch speakers would there be a lot of distortion/crackles if I pushed the volume on that?  Or would mid volume for a 5 inch monitor be enough for a small room?

 

Sorry for all the questions and lengths of them, but I would greatly appreciate it if anyone has any first hand experience with those issues and could share.  Thank you in advance!

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1) Of course, sound will come out of either amp. Whether of not you like the way it sounds is entirely subjective, you'll have to try it and see. In either case, if the amp has an FX Loop, take the Helix Outs (set to LINE level) into the FX Loop Returns. Keep in mind that even if it sounds good at home, presets made to sound good through ANY specific playback system will sound different when played through a different playback system. Gold standard is to create presets through a system similar to what you'll be using onstage, and create them at gig volume.

 

2/3) In the space you describe, 5" monitors would be fine. Usually, bigger speakers result in a bigger, fuller sound, but the acoustics of the room have a lot to do with that. Yamaha, JBL and Rokit are all good choices, but any of the major players will do. I'd stay away from Behringer, but whatever you can afford. If you can swing it, add a sub made for the system you choose.

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@rd2rk thanks a lot.  I'll keep that in mind.  Just worried if the acoustic amp sound won't be as pristine as studio monitors could be.  And thanks for the info on the 5" speakers.  All the other threads of people asking "what are the best smallest studio monitors?" it seems everyone only responded with 7/8" monitors, not even mentioning 5" monitors, so I got the impression that 5" monitors aren't even something to be considered for at home use lol.  I'll definitely feel safer now if I end up going with 5".  I would think 50 watts is enough for a small half room.....  Thanks again!

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I would say, try everything that you have first before buying something. One concept to think about is what the Helix actually simulates. It is an amp mic'd in a studio and listening to that in a control booth. You sitting in a control booth listening to that amp is what it simulates. So yes, the flatter the freq response, the better.

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@brue58ski  Thanks a lot for the response.  I agree, but reading all the different threads just kinda screwed me up since I've never used studio monitors or FRFR speakers lol.  Many make it sound like any kind of amp will color the Helix sound, even though my understanding was that acoustic amps are like PA's, especially since the AUX isn't going through the amp, just the speaker, you'd think it would be pretty true to the Helix sound.  I guess I'll just have to test it out first.  Thanks again for your thoughts!

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2 minutes ago, ThisIsFunk said:

@brue58ski  Thanks a lot for the response.  I agree, but reading all the different threads just kinda screwed me up since I've never used studio monitors or FRFR speakers lol.  Many make it sound like any kind of amp will color the Helix sound, even though my understanding was that acoustic amps are like PA's, especially since the AUX isn't going through the amp, just the speaker, you'd think it would be pretty true to the Helix sound.  I guess I'll just have to test it out first.  Thanks again for your thoughts!

 

EVERY playback system colors the sound. TRUE FRFR is a myth. A Unicorn. Unobtanium.

An acoustic amp colors the sound to make acoustic guitars sound best. Most of that happens in the preamp, but the speakers and cab are chosen and tuned to reinforce that..

Your Fender is made for electric guitar, so it MIGHT sound better. If you go over to TGP (The Gear Page) and check out the Fender Mustang Amp threads, even the devotees can't agree on how good any particular model or speaker sounds.

Studio Monitors are designed to be as flat as possible for mixing recordings, and are always at least 20-20k full range. The better SM mfrs provide a Frequency Response Chart so that you can see the actual performance over the range. The BEST SM mfrs actually provide a chart that's an honest representation.

Many modeler users swear by the JBL305 and the Yamaha HS5. I've been quite happy with my Rokit6 monitors. Read the reviews and compare the specs. I'd say try them side by side but, you know, coronavirus......

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31 minutes ago, ThisIsFunk said:

@brue58ski  Thanks a lot for the response.  I agree, but reading all the different threads just kinda screwed me up since I've never used studio monitors or FRFR speakers lol.  Many make it sound like any kind of amp will color the Helix sound, even though my understanding was that acoustic amps are like PA's, especially since the AUX isn't going through the amp, just the speaker, you'd think it would be pretty true to the Helix sound.  I guess I'll just have to test it out first.  Thanks again for your thoughts!

 

Yea, its weird. Even different brand speakers that have same specs will sound different. And people just have different ideas of what sounds good. That's why it's so hard to give a global "this is it". It really does boil down to what you like. Which is why you just have to listen and decide for yourself. Unfortunate but true. By the way, this is essentialy what I have. Got 'em about 5-10 years ago. They were on sale. Work fine for my purposes.

 

https://mackie.com/products/cr-multimedia-monitors

 

I also have these. Very portable and amazing for their size. A little expensive though I think.

 

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/iloudmm/?pkey=iloud-micro-monitor

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From what you depict, a pair of 5" studio monitors would be ideal! So long as they are on a desk (or on stands) so that the speaker cones are not exposed to floor activity, you'll enjoy a wide  sound stage and robust imaging to enjoy stereo playback and stereo FX. Should your music preferences include lots of low end, consider also getting a subwoofer. JBL's LSR305 Studio Monitors and the matching JBL LSR310S Subwoofer are very reasonably priced, and may be on sale for the Memorial Day Holiday. I have the LSR305 and LSR 301S Subwoofer as well as the LSR308 (amongst other studio monitors), and they work great with my Helix Floor and HX Stomp. YMMV.

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4 hours ago, ThisIsFunk said:

I got the impression that 5" monitors aren't even something to be considered for at home use

 

My setup is in a full size bedroom and I love my 5" JBL LSR 305's.  I'm not saying JBL is the one for you, just that my 5" monitors sound great and I wouldn't need anything bigger.  NOTE: I do have them in use with a JBL LSR 310S sub and Steinberg UR44 Audio Interface.

 

And I would start with one piece of gear first and that would be the Helix(LT). Use that with your amps first. Get a feel for the Helix.  You'll gain insight into what you like and what you don't before you make the sound system purchase, in case the amps do not work for you.  I think the acoustic amp, run in the way rd2rk stated, will be enough for your situation for now.

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13 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

EVERY playback system colors the sound. TRUE FRFR is a myth. A Unicorn. Unobtanium.

An acoustic amp colors the sound to make acoustic guitars sound best. Most of that happens in the preamp, but the speakers and cab are chosen and tuned to reinforce that..

Your Fender is made for electric guitar, so it MIGHT sound better. If you go over to TGP (The Gear Page) and check out the Fender Mustang Amp threads, even the devotees can't agree on how good any particular model or speaker sounds.

Studio Monitors are designed to be as flat as possible for mixing recordings, and are always at least 20-20k full range. The better SM mfrs provide a Frequency Response Chart so that you can see the actual performance over the range. The BEST SM mfrs actually provide a chart that's an honest representation.

Many modeler users swear by the JBL305 and the Yamaha HS5. I've been quite happy with my Rokit6 monitors. Read the reviews and compare the specs. I'd say try them side by side but, you know, coronavirus......

Thanks a lot for the input.  I think I'll probably play around with the amps first just to see and then go from there.  Appreciate it!

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13 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

https://mackie.com/products/cr-multimedia-monitors

 

I also have these. Very portable and amazing for their size. A little expensive though I think.

 

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/iloudmm/?pkey=iloud-micro-monitor

Thanks a lot.  I'll definitely check out those Mackie's!  That iLoud looks awesome, but a little spendy, I don't play/record professionally  so just looking for something that sounds nice but not too expensive.  Thanks for the recommendation!

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10 hours ago, MusicLaw said:

. I have the LSR305 and LSR 301S Subwoofer as well as the LSR308 (amongst other studio monitors), and they work great with my Helix Floor and HX Stomp. YMMV.

Thanks!  Perfect!  Glad to hear 5" can be enough!  Seemed like nobody ever mentioned them so I was scared to buy first lol.

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10 hours ago, Lone_Poor_Boy said:

 

My setup is in a full size bedroom and I love my 5" JBL LSR 305's.  I'm not saying JBL is the one for you, just that my 5" monitors sound great and I wouldn't need anything bigger.  NOTE: I do have them in use with a JBL LSR 310S sub and Steinberg UR44 Audio Interface.

Thank you too!  That's exactly what I wanted to hear!  I'll definitely be looking at 5" since I would imagine 8" is probably too big for what I actually need!  Appreciate it!

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I really wouldn't want anything bigger on my desktop.  Well... maybe I would, but these do great for me.  ;)

 

For reference, that is a 30" monitor.  I think it makes them look smaller in the pic.  The little foam angle thingys I have the speakers on were a nice little addition.

 

ds2wsk47jj051.jpg

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On 5/22/2020 at 12:29 PM, rd2rk said:

 

Studio Monitors are designed to be as flat as possible for mixing recordings, and are always at least 20-20k full range. The better SM mfrs provide a Frequency Response Chart so that you can see the actual performance over the range. The BEST SM mfrs actually provide a chart that's an honest representation.

A nerdy quibble: though they're designed for flat response, very few monitors come anywhere near a flat response at 20Hz - and usually not at 20k either. Not that it matters all that much, as most listeners don't have speakers that'll do that either (clubs might). Most will roll off over an octave above 20Hz. Though *in comparison to guitar amps*, yeah - these things are ruler flat!

 

To the OP: As others have said, get what fits your space, and add a sub if you need to. I like my JBL 308s quite a bit with my Helix.

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5 minutes ago, jester700 said:

A nerdy quibble: though they're designed for flat response, very few monitors come anywhere near a flat response at 20Hz - and usually not at 20k either.

 

I didn't say that Studio Monitors succeed in having flat response across the whole frequency range, in fact I said the opposite, that TRUE Flat Response is not attainable in any practical way. I was saying that they're designed such that the full FREQUENCY RANGE is reproduced, unlike guitar speakers that reproduce a limited portion of the range.

 

I can see how the way I worded it could be confusing, which is why I'm being more specific here. FRFR means Full Range/Flat Response.

I was talking about the FRFR vs the FRFR.

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14 hours ago, Lone_Poor_Boy said:

I really wouldn't want anything bigger on my desktop.  Well... maybe I would, but these do great for me.  ;)

 

For reference, that is a 30" monitor.  I think it makes them look smaller in the pic.  The little foam angle thingys I have the speakers on were a nice little addition.

 

 

Right on, yeah I think I'm gonna go with a similar setup!  Much appreciated!

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23 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

I didn't say that Studio Monitors succeed in having flat response across the whole frequency range, in fact I said the opposite, that TRUE Flat Response is not attainable in any practical way. I was saying that they're designed such that the full FREQUENCY RANGE is reproduced, unlike guitar speakers that reproduce a limited portion of the range.

 

I can see how the way I worded it could be confusing, which is why I'm being more specific here. FRFR means Full Range/Flat Response.

I was talking about the FRFR vs the FRFR.

Yeah. On rereading it I see your meaning. In that case, total agreement.  :-)

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