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Recommendations on a FRFR for Pod Go


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Right now  I'm looking at the Line 6 PowerCab 112 & the Headrush FRFR-108.  Just wondering what people here are running their Pod Go through & their thoughts.  I don't care about the cab modeling on the PowerCab, I would just use the Pod Go for the cab modeling.

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  • 1 year later...

Well there is Catalyst now! Not a FRFR speaker but usefull i.m.o. and with the four cable method you can go all the way. Catalyst can be a handy backup aswell for stage purposes since it's family of the Helix/PodGo.

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It seems to me that there are some sensible questions to ask before I wade in with any suggestions. 

 

1. Where are you going to be using your Pod Go?  Home, friends, small clubs, gigging

2. If you are gigging, how will you be using your Pod Go?

(a) Will you be going through the main PA/board?

(b) Will the FRFR be used for FOH ie projecting out to the audience?

(c) On stage do you need a monitoring cab or eg will you be using ear buds?

(d) What type of music will you be playing and what levels of volume will you need? Eg will you be playing loud heavy metal with a loud drummer, or quieter jazz with a trio, blues etc?

(e) How old are you ie are weight, size and budget of gear an issue for you?

(f) What is your budget?

 

It's just that without understanding your needs, it's difficult to suggest what might be a suitable solution for you. 

 

 

 

 

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and then the questions about the devices itself - 

Do you want stereo or mono. 

If stereo, do you want them to have independent volumes, or would you like to daisy chain them (one unit controls the master volume).

Speaking of daisy chain, do you think you would want to daisy chain more than 2.  

Would you like other/multiple inputs - as example, at home, I also plug my mic into my monitors.   

 

If using live, do you want it to be on the floor, angled up like a wedge monitor or in the air on a pole.

What kind of stages are you on - can you trust that you audience won't mess with the volume knobs if they are on the back of the unit. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

well i just bought the laney lfr-212 for home use..im trying it out i have 45 days...i figured for what it costs it would sound better than my headphones and monitors right out of the box and it doesnt...any preset that sounds amazing through my headphones or monitors sounds terrible through the laney...it makes no sense to me glad i have a cpl weeks to mess with it...then ill have to return it...i was hoping to replace the studio monitors with it...

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On 3/27/2022 at 4:32 PM, chugzilla said:

well i just bought the laney lfr-212 for home use..im trying it out i have 45 days...i figured for what it costs it would sound better than my headphones and monitors right out of the box and it doesnt...any preset that sounds amazing through my headphones or monitors sounds terrible through the laney...it makes no sense to me glad i have a cpl weeks to mess with it...then ill have to return it...i was hoping to replace the studio monitors with it...

My advice is to be wary about buying presets because they are created with different gear and with different ears to you.  Different guitars, pickups, amps, speakers, FRFR, headphones etc - the permutations are considerable so whilst its possible you might buy a preset that sounds great off the bat, you will almost always need to tweak these to suit.  People can pay good money often thinking they are buying a magic plethora that will instantly sound fabulous.  It's often a misconception. All purchased and free presets  however can be useful to give you ideas to play with and tweak.  

 

There are lots of good vids on youtube guiding you through how to build presets and its essential you learn about tone and how to do this yourself.  It's a learning journey and there are no quick fixes - but it's important to enjoy the journey and not be afraid to experiment because there are no 'rules' to speak of.  Pod Go creates option paralysis  because it gives you so many choices of amp, cab, microphone & effects models.  And that's before you even start thinking about EQ and fx chain order.  It's a huge learning curve.

 

The Laney FRFR112 is excellent - but it's something else you're going to have to learn to use because it gives you cab model options too. If you use these and the cab models in Pod Go you're going to make like overly complex because now you've got to think about blending cab models too!  And FRFR is different to headphones & different again through an amp. Patches that you've made with headphones will sound very different when going through FRFR.  And a patch made with your headphones might sound very different through mine.  For Pod Go you ideally should be using studio monitoring headphones, rather than hifi headphones.  Studio monitoring units have a different frequency response and are more akin to FRFR.     

 

Also, patches that might sound great for home use can often sound awful live - & vice-a-versa!  Live you'll want to up mids to punch through the mix. Your ears and gear are receiving audio info in different ways.  So you need to design patches for different uses. It's just physics & is just how it is I'm afraid. 

 

So, start slow.  Pick one favourite amp model and a cab.  Forget effects. Experiment with the parameters to hear what they do - go to each 'extreme' and then find somewhere in the middle that sounds good to you.  With the cab, raise the output dB by 3-4dB and add some reflection.   Don't overdo gain on the amp - just like a real amp, if you overdo settings it will sound muddy/mushy.  Channel volume doesn't affect tone - master volume does. If you max master volume you're effectively pushing power-tubes and that will add a certain type of distortion that you may or may not want.  Experiment with different mics and distances  The mic type and settings can drastically change your sound.  Steer clear of thirdparty IR's for now - you have enough to learn about first - IR's can come later.  The stock cabs are very good so learn how to get the best from these first. 

 

Re EQ, you may or may not need/want this. But using a fixed EQ block at the end of your chain is the easiest way to start.  Play with each slider to see what they do. Raise the level by a couple of dB if you want the parameter changes to be more noticeable.  If you find a patch where you really like what the EQ does, copy the EQ type & settings and tweak from there. 

Next thing is to add some reverb. Keep it simple, use room, plate or hall to start with.  For delay, use eg the simple delay to start with. Again, experiment with parameters and get the feel of what these do.  When you find a favourite setting you can save these so next time you don't have to start with the factory default. 

 

There are lots of free tones to try on Custom Tone - some you'll like some you won't.  Don't expect instant gratification - have a look at how the patch is made up. You might love the reverb choice and settings but hate the amp distortion.  So, experiment with the amp, cab & mic model before rushing to another amp model.  Learning takes time.  Re FX chain, there are no 'rules' but generally you'll likely want compressor & distortion in front of the amp, with deal after the amp and reverb after delay. Modulation can vary - some will sound good in front of the amp after compressor/distortion, sometimes you might want it immediately after the amp and before delay.  but experiment!  Don't overdo any model. Start with subtle effects before progressing to more extreme versions.  It's like oil painting - you start with an undercoat and gradually add pain in layers - the trick is knowing when to stop adding paint and how to mix the colours so they give a pleasing result.  

 

If you bought Pod Go thinking it's plug n play, it isn't - as I said there's a lot to learn.  I've been using it for two years and I'm still learning & scratching the surface!  If you're not already on, you might want to check out the Facebook " Line 6 POD GO - Free Patches Group"  It's run by Ivan Pesut who's a lovely guy and very talented with audio and building patches.  He has a ton of tutorials and great free patches to try (I'm on the group & now moderate it too), and it has really nice helpful folk on it.   

 

Finally, there's a few of my patches on Custom Tone (search 'voxman55') you might want to try.  Again, these may or may not sound good with your gear, but see how you get on with them.  And you don't need tons of patches - you can do a lot with even just one patch.  As an example, one of the patches I created was suggested to me by someone else with an amp model I'd not used before (remember, 'experimentation!').  I wasn't crazy about the original patch as it was so tweaked it to fit what sounded good to my ears.  I also did a quick homemade audio demo - it was designed to be a general purpose patch that in theory you could cover a gig with - it was fun to make so see what you think (cleans right up to Led Zep/Rush tones):

 

https://line6.com/customtone/tone/5101684/

 

 

 

Audio clips        

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On 3/27/2022 at 1:36 PM, voxman55 said:

My advice is don't buy presets - they are created with different gear and with different ears to you. Different guitars, pickups, amps, speakers, FRFR, headphones etc - the permutations are staggering so its almost a miracle to find a preset that sounds great off the back, free or bought!  People pay good money thinking they are buying a magic plethora that will instantly sound fabulous.  It's rubbish. The most that any preset can do, unless you are very, very, lucky, is to give you ideas to play with and tweak.  ……

…….

Finally, there's a few of my patches on Custom Tone (search 'voxman55') you might want to try.  Again, these may or may not sound good with your gear, but see how you get on with them.  …

 

I generally agree with everything here except your opening advice. My advice to those who aren’t comfortable (yet) creating their own presets would be to try some and then decide whether to pursue it. Also I don’t think you need a miracle, or to be very very lucky, to find something you like. In fact the last paragraph I quoted above above indicates that you, too, believe that some presets created by others may be valuable.

 

Personally, I have found that the presets I have purchased provide a MUCH better starting point to not only learn more about about patch construction but many of them do sound good right out of the gate. Of course some tweaking can tailor them to your own gear but if they’re designed for FRFR they generally sound good off the bat through any FRFR equipment. 
 

Of course ‘good’ is a relative term. I won’t ever buy metal or even hi-gain presets. I can easily create my own presets in that genre that sound bad to me; I don’t need to spend $$ to get something created by someone else that sounds bad to me. However I have purchased many blues, basic rock, and acoustic tones that I use (some slightly modified) all the time. I’ve also built many of my own,  both independently and based on the purchased stuff. I think many users find value in purchasing some bread&butter tones to get them on the right track.

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well i appreciate all the advice... but im trying to get the sound i hear from my headphones in the laney lfr-212 and i dont think it can be done...i messed with it all day and i actually got so frustrated i packed it back up in the box and taped it up lol....i mean my cheap sterling mx-8 powered monitors sound better....i bought presets labeled for frfr cabinets....there ok ....but not what im looking for.... and i cant do it and dont wanna waste the time...ide rather return that cabinet and monitors because i dont need either and buy a tube head....thats 1500 towards something good...and for me buying presets helped actually.... i learned a few things....i didnt spend alot... they were either 30 or 50 % off....so not bad...i think i spend 60 total....the reason i bought the monitors and cabinet is i couldnt dial in a good sound for my pod go....when using my orange pedal baby 100 and 4x12 cab...so i actually lucked out and the tone wars guy had pod go presets they are made for live use...they sound fantastic i just shut off the ir and boom perfect sound....so that solved that....now with all that being said the only positive from the laney cab is the factory presets in the pod go sounded amazingly good through it...so in a few days i may unpack it again and retry everything....i still have 41 days left....so ty both for all your support and help its much appreciated

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On 3/27/2022 at 7:51 PM, silverhead said:

I generally agree with everything here except your opening advice. My advice to those who aren’t comfortable (yet) creating their own presets would be to try some and then decide whether to pursue it. Also I don’t think you need a miracle, or to be very very lucky, to find something you like. In fact the last paragraph I quoted above above indicates that you, too, believe that some presets created by others may be valuable.

 

Personally, I have found that the presets I have purchased provide a MUCH better starting point to not only learn more about about patch construction but many of them do sound good right out of the gate. Of course some tweaking can tailor them to your own gear but if they’re designed for FRFR they generally sound good off the bat through any FRFR equipment. 
 

Of course ‘good’ is a relative term. I won’t ever buy metal or even hi-gain presets. I can easily create my own presets in that genre that sound bad to me; I don’t need to spend $$ to get something created by someone else that sounds bad to me. However I have purchased many blues, basic rock, and acoustic tones that I use (some slightly modified) all the time. I’ve also built many of my own,  both independently and based on the purchased stuff. I think many users find value in purchasing some bread&butter tones to get them on the right track.

I think your points are fair comment and on reflection I think my post could have been a little more balanced so I've tweaked the post accordingly. I also appreciate that folk sell presets through the Line 6 sections so in the words of Ben Elton 'there's a little bit of politics' here too. 

 

But I stand by my cautionary note that folk need to be wary before buying presets. If you buy a preset and need to tweak it, which you invariably will, and are buying it as a short cut because you don't have the tonal vocabulary to create your own...then how do you have the skills to tweak it? 

 

I'd therefore strongly recommend folk invest some time learning basics themselves before buying presets.

 

The other thing to look out for when buying presets is where a preset uses a third party IR. Always check that that the IR wave file is included as part of the package. Otherwise you'll have to buy the IR separately if you want it to sound like the creator intended. 

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On 3/27/2022 at 9:19 PM, chugzilla said:

well i appreciate all the advice... but im trying to get the sound i hear from my headphones in the laney lfr-212 and i dont think it can be done...i messed with it all day and i actually got so frustrated i packed it back up in the box and taped it up lol....i mean my cheap sterling mx-8 powered monitors sound better....i bought presets labeled for frfr cabinets....there ok ....but not what im looking for.... and i cant do it and dont wanna waste the time...ide rather return that cabinet and monitors because i dont need either and buy a tube head....thats 1500 towards something good...and for me buying presets helped actually.... i learned a few things....i didnt spend alot... they were either 30 or 50 % off....so not bad...i think i spend 60 total....the reason i bought the monitors and cabinet is i couldnt dial in a good sound for my pod go....when using my orange pedal baby 100 and 4x12 cab...so i actually lucked out and the tone wars guy had pod go presets they are made for live use...they sound fantastic i just shut off the ir and boom perfect sound....so that solved that....now with all that being said the only positive from the laney cab is the factory presets in the pod go sounded amazingly good through it...so in a few days i may unpack it again and retry everything....i still have 41 days left....so ty both for all your support and help its much appreciated

 

If the factory presets sound great with the FR112, then that's a huge win.  It's likely the factory presets were designed using FRFR which allows the modelling to shine through without any undue colour being added. 

 

As I explained, headphones and FRFR cabs can be quite different. What headphones are you using? I use the Audio Technica ATH m50x that are studio monitoring and give very similar tones to the those when I use my Headrush FRFR 108. 

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well voxman.... i have read what you posted 5 times or more now .....so much info...its all good and alot i never realized before....to bad ya cant come here and teach me for a few hours lol... that would be great !!!!!

and ill be the first to admit... i cant dial in anything to save my life.... i just dont understand it ....and who woulda thought it could be this hard,,,why i bought presets...some are good and others r terrible...and back in the day when i used combo amps and heads before all this digital stuff i was ok...there were not many options and i didnt use any pedals really....it was much simpler....times have changed....im trying to learn but its tough and very frustrating....i can live without the laney cab and the sterling monitors for now..i can return them and get all my money back...maybe i dont even need a tube head now either.... ill just work with what i have ...learn the pod go better then move forward from there...what would you recommend for studio headphones ? are the akg k361's i have good enuff ? or should i get the akg k371's ? 

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On 3/27/2022 at 4:37 PM, voxman55 said:

….. I also appreciate that folk sell presets through the Line 6 sections so in the words of Ben Elton 'there's a little bit of politics' here too.

 

But I stand by my cautionary note that folk need to be wary before buying presets.……

 

I'd therefore strongly recommend folk invest some time learning basics themselves before buying presets.

Agreed on all points. 
 

And just to clarify…. I have no interest in having people buy presets on the Line 6 Marketplace. That has nothing to do with my  belief that many people can find value in purchased presets. As you say, and I agree, people should learn the basics of preset construction for themselves. Sometimes we’ll constructed purchased presets can help with that.
 

I don’t have any presets for sale in the Marketplace, and I don’t benefit in any way from Marketplace sales. I feel I need to say that here because users often presume that we who carry the ‘Line 6 Expert’ tag must have some sort of special relationship with Line 6. We don’t, beyond the fact that we like many other users are often beta testers.

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On 3/27/2022 at 9:52 PM, chugzilla said:

well voxman.... i have read what you posted 5 times or more now .....so much info...its all good and alot i never realized before....to bad ya cant come here and teach me for a few hours lol... that would be great !!!!!

and ill be the first to admit... i cant dial in anything to save my life.... i just dont understand it ....and who woulda thought it could be this hard,,,why i bought presets...some are good and others r terrible...and back in the day when i used combo amps and heads before all this digital stuff i was ok...there were not many options and i didnt use any pedals really....it was much simpler....times have changed....im trying to learn but its tough and very frustrating....i can live without the laney cab and the sterling monitors for now..i can return them and get all my money back...maybe i dont even need a tube head now either.... ill just work with what i have ...learn the pod go better then move forward from there...what would you recommend for studio headphones ? are the akg k361's i have good enuff ? or should i get the akg k371's ? 

 

I appreciate the kind words but please appreciate I am not an expert patch creator.  I have a reasonably good ear (I think it's the left one lol) and I can usually get in the ball park of what I'm looking for.  I'm also not a great player, more of a reasonably decent bread and butter player that can more or less hold his own in the genres of classic rock and blues which is mostly what I tend to play.

 

Because I'm an oldie, I have some advantage based on experience. When I started playing, there was only valve amps and solid state, so I grew up with valve amps. My first foray into modelling was with a Boss GT3 and my first modelling amp was a Line 6 Flextone II Plus rig.  I then switched to Vox with a Valvetronix AD120VTX rig and later Vox Tonelab SE and LE MFX units.  

 

So I had a fair bit of experience with modelling gear. But even for me, Pod Go was a new level of learning curve, and I'm still learning, simply because there is just so much in it. 

 

So don't be too hard on yourself and give yourself some time. The more you learn, the easier it gets.  Watch the vids on building patches, try the free patches on Custom Tone, and start off slow in the manner I suggested.  Once you've got a better feel, then you can decide whether you want to buy more patches.

 

But by that time you'll be learning about IRs and a good IR can really make a difference providing you use it with the right patches. Anyway, good luck and I hope these posts have been of some help. 

 

PS- I'm not familiar with your headphones but they are studio monitoring so should be decent. You could always try the ATH m50x to see how they compare. The other popular choice is the 80 Ohm version of the Beyer Dynamic DT770 Pro.  

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

i went with headrush 108 simply for weight factor,can go to a jam or gig (small) with all gear in 2 hands.havent had chance to test in in live apps. yet so cant give  honest review..

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On 4/18/2022 at 12:12 AM, klawman500 said:

i went with headrush 108 simply for weight factor,can go to a jam or gig (small) with all gear in 2 hands.havent had chance to test in in live apps. yet so cant give  honest review..

 

Exactly my rationale for going FRFR and I too haven't had an opportunity to use in a live situation.  But having cranked it up a bit (not fully) whilst family was out, I can tell you it's incredibly loud!  But home or live, do get it off the floor!

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On 4/17/2022 at 10:03 PM, voxman55 said:

But home or live, do get it off the floor!

 

I can understand at home, while designing patches, you may not want to pick up frequencies from the floor. 

But once presets are already made, and you step on a stage for a live performance, why do we want it off the floor? 

 

Stick it on the floor (maybe slightly raised on a box or something) at the front of the stage. Let the sound shoot up at you like a wedge monitor would. It has the angles built right in, perfect for floor usage. 

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On 4/19/2022 at 4:51 AM, pianoguyy said:

 

I can understand at home, while designing patches, you may not want to pick up frequencies from the floor. 

But once presets are already made, and you step on a stage for a live performance, why do we want it off the floor? 

 

Stick it on the floor (maybe slightly raised on a box or something) at the front of the stage. Let the sound shoot up at you like a wedge monitor would. It has the angles built right in, perfect for floor usage. 

 

Because the sound projection spread and clarity/definition is better.  At a gig you want the right frequencies to get to their ears which means more of those 'nice mids' that our ears like.  Raising it off the floor helps achieve that. Even better would be to mount it on a pole, and its why PA speakers are typically mounted on poles.   (stating the blindingly obvious, but that's assuming of course you are using your FRFR as audience facing and not just as a monitor).   

 

Anyway, experiment, use the looper to record and play back a riff with the band playing and then go out to a typical audience position and see which sounds best - angled up from the ground or raised off the ground - and try different heights. I think you'll be surprised at the difference it makes!

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On 4/20/2022 at 8:06 PM, pianoguyy said:

Fair enough. 

That just boils down to the different ways of using it. I don't use it that way, so I wouldn't think of those things. 

Well, hopefully that now at least gives you some helpful options to think about and experiment with. image.gif.93489fd9d8056b08842dd9f931332b30.gif Let us know how you get on. :aok

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